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The Last of Us Part II OT - Best Served Cold, update: the story behind the game's realistic facial animations (PlayStation Blog)


SaysWho?

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3 hours ago, Emperor Diocletian II said:

 

Listen mode is disabled for Grounded difficulty here as well.

 

So how does it adjust the upgrades that enhance it, especially if you play it on New Game + and have already purchased those upgrades? 

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9 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

I think this is a basic take. Phantom Pain’s perspective on conflict, war, soldiers, PMCs, MAD, nukes, etc., is obvious. The characters involved absolutely pay a price for their actions. That doesn’t mean that the gameplay isn’t a power fantasy chock full of gun porn. It’s both of those things. It’s the same with TLoU games. Do the characters pay a price for their actions? Absolutely, that isn’t in doubt. The gameplay itself encourages and rewards violence. You get the most out of every area by killing everything in it, searching the cleared areas for loot which makes you better at killing everyone in the next area, etc. There is no incentive for not engaging in violence and unlike other games in which non-violent actions have an upside either in terms of story branching or via the gameplay, it’s to the detriment of the player to not kill as many people / infected as possible in TLoU games. The gameplay is pure power fantasy, the plot demanding the characters pay a price for those actions doesn’t change that.

 

That the game is fun doesn't make it a right-wing power fantasy. It means it's a fantastic game.

 

It's like your complaints about AI: putting aside that creating even competent AI is very difficult, never mind life-like, Naughty Dog apparently found that it just wasn't that fun to play being hyper-realistic. And having interviewed people in gaming schools that teach students how to develop, it's idiotic to make a game not fun so as to apparently be woke.

 

Through upgrades, sounds that are pleasing to the ear/exciting, etc., rewarding players is game development 101. 

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Most action games are a power fantasy to some extent, and I don’t think it’s an inherently derogatory term. Is TLoU a power fantasy the way Horizon, God of War, or an inFamous game are? No, absolutely not. Is it a power fantasy the way something like the first Tomb Raider reboot was? Yeah, I think so. Do I personally think it’s “ring-wing”? No I don’t, but I don’t think it’s that much of a stretch for people to read that into any post-apocalyptic prepper game where the government derped, even if that’s a shallow take.

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I don't think that this game, or most action games, are purposefully "right-wing".  But you do have to ask yourself why the defining characteristic of western games is the destruction of other people (usually with guns), endlessly acquiring resources, and continually becoming more powerful and dominant.  It's an extension of our (in my opinion toxic) individualist and colonialist mindset, which happens to be a core component of most right-wing thought.

 

I think that TLoU II is designed specifically to challenge this, but it fails in a way because it still has to play by all of those conventions in order to be engaging.  I think it is as successful as it possibly could be in what it's trying to accomplish, but the fact that it's a AAA videogame for a predominantly western audience means that it has to make some concessions.  It's sort of like a bomb in a happy meal, but the bomb has to be small enough that you can still enjoy the burger after the explosion.

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1 hour ago, Kal-El814 said:

Most action games are a power fantasy to some extent, and I don’t think it’s an inherently derogatory term. Is TLoU a power fantasy the way Horizon, God of War, or an inFamous game are? No, absolutely not. Is it a power fantasy the way something like the first Tomb Raider reboot was? Yeah, I think so. Do I personally think it’s “ring-wing”? No I don’t, but I don’t think it’s that much of a stretch for people to read that into any post-apocalyptic prepper game where the government derped, even if that’s a shallow take.

 

Aight, we'll agree to disagree. :p  I can't add anything right now.

 

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8 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

 

This is objectively incorrect.

 

2016: "I see myself as a pretty progressive person and yet my default is a white, straight, christian male," he said. "That's interesting because I'm Jewish and yet that's the norm for me right now. It's a challenge and it requires energy to deviate from that. Therefore it's important to empower people on the team that are going to push for this pillar."

 

2020 tweet:

 

2020.05.17-01.45-boundingintocomics-5ec1

 

They promote progressive values.That doesn't mean their crunch culture is consistent with them. 

 

What Joel says doesn't mean anything, and it's a mistake people make when analyzing films: the supposed politics of a character doesn't necessarily mean the game itself is promoting it. Joel's clearly not meant to be a paragon of virtue and righteousness considering the events of both games. That there was a debate about his actions in the first is a testament to the very expertly done and controversial final act. TLOU2 introduced significantly more instances when the player doesn't actually want to do what the game is requiring them to do.

 

TLOU2 clearly is not a power trip by any length or stretch of the imagination unless power trips include 

  Hide contents

vomiting upon realizing you killed a pregnant woman, PTSD, losing your friends, feeling empty, losing your wife, and losing your ability to play a very important song.

Or in Abby's case, losing all your friends and then nearly being murdered at the end.


That's not a power trip: that's a story about how revenge doesn't end up the way you want it to. 

 

 

Going across the country to slaughter hundreds you have a problem with/don’t like is literally the definition of a right wing power fantasy. Sure, there are other themes, but the whole game is a power fantasy. And as was said above, so is uncharted.

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4 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Going across the country to slaughter hundreds you have a problem with/don’t like is literally the definition of a right wing power fantasy. Sure, there are other themes, but the whole game is a power fantasy. And as was said above, so is uncharted.

 

This is covered by the post you quoted.

 

"What Joel says doesn't mean anything, and it's a mistake people make when analyzing films: the supposed politics of a character doesn't necessarily mean the game itself is promoting it. Joel's clearly not meant to be a paragon of virtue and righteousness considering the events of both games. That there was a debate about his actions in the first is a testament to the very expertly done and controversial final act. TLOU2 introduced significantly more instances when the player doesn't actually want to do what the game is requiring them to do.

 

TLOU2 clearly is not a power trip by any length or stretch of the imagination unless power trips include 

Spoiler

 

vomiting upon realizing you killed a pregnant woman, PTSD, losing your friends, feeling empty, losing your wife, and losing your ability to play a very important song.

Or in Abby's case, losing all your friends and then nearly being murdered at the end.

 


That's not a power trip: that's a story about how revenge doesn't end up the way you want it to. "

 

 

 

Revenge is one of the staples of literature/film/games. A fantasy should be orgasmic, not blue balls.

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10 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

This is covered by the post you quoted.

 

"What Joel says doesn't mean anything, and it's a mistake people make when analyzing films: the supposed politics of a character doesn't necessarily mean the game itself is promoting it. Joel's clearly not meant to be a paragon of virtue and righteousness considering the events of both games. That there was a debate about his actions in the first is a testament to the very expertly done and controversial final act. TLOU2 introduced significantly more instances when the player doesn't actually want to do what the game is requiring them to do.

 

TLOU2 clearly is not a power trip by any length or stretch of the imagination unless power trips include 

  Hide contents

 

vomiting upon realizing you killed a pregnant woman, PTSD, losing your friends, feeling empty, losing your wife, and losing your ability to play a very important song.

Or in Abby's case, losing all your friends and then nearly being murdered at the end.

 


That's not a power trip: that's a story about how revenge doesn't end up the way you want it to. "

 

 

 

Revenge is one of the staples of literature/film/games. A fantasy should be orgasmic, not blue balls.

You kill hundreds of people for no reason other than who they are. I don’t care if they sprinkle in a few progressive ideas, none of the things you said change the fact that the whole idea of this game is based on a breitright’s wet dream. Lets slaughter everyone who did us wrong!


 

Oh she vomited? Then she went back to kill a few dozen more! You realize the alt-right crazies really believe they are good people too, right? I know, I grew up around many of them. 

 

Also, who cares what Druckmann thinks? Everyone can call themselves a progressive, but as was said above, when you negatively affect people’s whole lives with crunch for months, you aren’t a progressive. And Druckman and ND are both notorious for it. 
 

I love the games, I think they are awesome, but you’re being disingenuous to claim its not all based on a right wing, post apocalyptic wet dream. 

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1 minute ago, BloodyHell said:

You kill hundreds of people for no reason other than who they are. I don’t care if they sprinkle in a few progressive ideas, none of the things you said change the fact that the whole idea of this game is based on a breitright’s wet dream. Lets slaughter everyone who did us wrong!


 

Oh she vomited? Then she went back to kill a few dozen more! You realize the alt-right crazies really believe they are good people too, right? I know, I grew up around many of them. 

 

Also, who cares what Druckmann thinks? Everyone can call themselves a progressive, but as was said above, when you negatively affect people’s whole lives with crunch for months, you aren’t a progressive. And Druckman and ND are both notorious for it. 
 

I love the games, I think they are awesome, but you’re being disingenuous to claim its not all based on a right wing, post apocalyptic wet dream. 

 

Obviously we care what he thinks because we're trying to ascribe what his politics are. You can't say, "They aren't stanning for progressive values," when they literally are. That they're not inconsistent with crunch doesn't change that.

 

I feel like this is the first story some of you have experienced. Yes, she slaughters people who wronged her. Revenge. It's one of the oldest literary themes. It still has nothing to do with the message of the game. The second line misses the whole point:

 

Spoiler

When she vomits/breaks down after killing Mel, she doesn't immediately go back to killing more. First, she feels unfulfilled. Then, she is nearly killed by Abby. Years later, she's still being triggered due to her PTSD and leaves Dina to go give herself closure (and Dina leaves her for it). She still can't kill her and she feels unfulfilled. She also can't play the one song she most associates emotionally with Joel by the end of the game. She's lost everything and feels nothing because killing them can't bring back Joel, and Abby killing Joel made her lose everything.

This isn't a fantasy; this is literally a "violence begets violence" message. That's one of the most left-wing messages in the books.

 

What the feelings of a character are do not correspond with a story's or author's moral/message. When Elton John wrote My Father's Gun, I doubt he wrote that as a love letter to southern American racists. And I highly doubt Paul McCartney has serial killer tendencies with Maxwell's Silver Hammer.

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6 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Obviously we care what he thinks because we're trying to ascribe what his politics are. You can't say, "They aren't stanning for progressive values," when they literally are. That they're not inconsistent with crunch doesn't change that.

 

I feel like this is the first story some of you have experienced. Yes, she slaughters people who wronged her. Revenge. It's one of the oldest literary themes. It still has nothing to do with the message of the game. The second line misses the whole point:

 

  Hide contents

When she vomits/breaks down after killing Mel, she doesn't immediately go back to killing more. First, she feels unfulfilled. Then, she is nearly killed by Abby. Years later, she's still being triggered due to her PTSD and leaves Dina to go give herself closure (and Dina leaves her for it). She still can't kill her and she feels unfulfilled. She also can't play the one song she most associates emotionally with Joel by the end of the game. She's lost everything and feels nothing because killing them can't bring back Joel, and Abby killing Joel made her lose everything.

This isn't a fantasy; this is literally a "violence begets violence" message. That's one of the most left-wing messages in the books.

 

What the feelings of a character are do not correspond with a story's or author's moral/message. When Elton John wrote My Father's Gun, I doubt he wrote that as a love letter to southern American racists. And I highly doubt Paul McCartney has serial killer tendencies with Maxwell's Silver Hammer.

Again, painting in progressive details does not make it less of a prepper fantasy.  You seem to think it does. 

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7 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Fantasies aren't blue balls. That's why they're fantasies.

 

Some of you don't get the whole revenge trope.

I get exactly what the revenge trope is. Stop pretending you see something that we don’t. I know what ND was trying to say. Its a wonderful game with a wonderful story, but it it is still prepper power porn. There’s nothing progressive about the fame other than than Ellie and Dina being lesbians, and that is barely explored. It’s about two murderous monsters living out their revenge fantasy and alienating everyone around them. We all know the themes, we literally talked about them for almost 30 pages ITT. Its wonderful, its fun, it’s probably my game of the year, its all those things AND a prepper power fantasy. 
 

id like to know exactly when the game gave anyone blue balls... 

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2 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

I get exactly what the revenge trope is. Stop pretending you see something that we don’t. I know what ND was trying to say. Its a wonderful game with a wonderful story, but it it is still prepper power porn. There’s nothing progressive about the fame other than than Ellie and Dina being lesbians, and that is barely explored. It’s about two murderous monsters living out their revenge fantasy and alienating everyone around them. We all know the themes, we literally talked about them for almost 30 pages ITT. Its wonderful, its fun, it’s probably my game of the year, its all those things AND a prepper power fantasy. 
 

id like to know exactly when the game gave anyone blue balls... 

 

I'm not pretending; you're literally missing easy messages and missing the point of revenge. The bold is like... the answer is in front of you, but simply getting revenge is "right-wing" even though it's a left-wing "violence begets violence" message. They didn't live out a fantasy; they were 

Spoiler

left broken.

 

And I'm not re-typing all my posts. I've explained how the revenge fulfillment gave them blue balls, so either respond to them or simply stop debating in bad faith. It's not fulfilling to me, much like many's quest for revenge.

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8 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

I'm not pretending; you're literally missing easy messages, apoc.

 

And I'm not re-typing all my posts. I've explained how it did, so either respond to them or simply stop debating in bad faith. It's not fulfilling to me, much like many's quest for revenge.

Ive never debated in bad faith, you’re literally pretending that this game is different. It isn’t. If you want to hate me and continue to make ridiculous, baseless claims about who I am because I won’t agree with you, thats fine.
 

A couple of us have disagreed with you, and you pretending you’re objectively right makes no sense. I don’t get why you’re so riled up. I read your posts, you seem to want to believe the game is special and different.  It took a theme done a thousand times (revenge loses you everything), and stuffed it in a wonderful, fun prepper fantasy, but its still exactly that. 
 

Pretending people are arguing in bad faith because they don’t agree with you is foolish. 

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Just now, BloodyHell said:

Ive never debated in bad faith, you’re literally pretending that this game is special and different. It isn’t. If you want to hate me and continue to make ridiculous, baseless claims about who I am because I won’t agree with you, thats fine.
 

A couple of us have disagreed with you, and you pretending you’re objectively right makes no sense. I don’t get why you’re so riled up. I read your posts, you seem to want to believe the game is special and different.  It took a theme done a thousand times (revenge loses you everything), and stuffed it in a wonderful, fun prepper fantasy, but its still exactly that. 
 

Pretending people are arguing in bad faith because they don’t agree with you is foolish. 

 

It's a very weird thing, mostly on ResetEra, but also here, where, "Someone else said something I agree with," makes someone feel more comfortable in their opinion. Be secure in your own opinion.

 

Anyway, you're debating a bad-faith. You're literally restating your points even though I've addressed them. You do this a lot, and it's very apoc-ish, which I suspect is because this is your third username.

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15 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

It's a very weird thing, mostly on ResetEra, but also here, where, "Someone else said something I agree with," makes someone feel more comfortable in their opinion. Be secure in your own opinion.

 

Anyway, you're debating a bad-faith. You're literally restating your points even though I've addressed them. You do this a lot, and it's very apoc-ish, which I suspect is because this is your third username.

Nobody is using the word fantasy in to describe a LotR like story. We’re using “prepper fantasy” to describe the gameplay at its core. We all know what the story is about, we literally raved about it for page after page in this thread, and you were a major part of that convo, so suddenly pretending we don’t understand the story is literally arguing in bad faith. 
 

But the base of the game is literally the straight up, right wing, prepper nutjobs idea  of the Apocalypse. “I’m gunna git muh guns and slaughter everyone I don’t like”. Putting a wonderful story on top doesn’t make it less of what it is at its core. Kill everyone you don’t like/agree with. 
 

You never made a single point that changes that, and I don’t get why you’re so upset I see it that way. Being a prepper “fantasy” doesn’t make it bad. It’s an amazing game with an amazing story. But at its core it’s no different than any other game of its kind. Guns, rpg levelling, and lots of killing. The story can be, and is, separate from that.

 

your focus on the improper use of the word fantasy, and your baseless personal attacks are just petty.

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4 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Nobody is using the word fantasy in to describe a LotR like story. We’re using “prepper fantasy” to describe the gameplay at its core.

 

I'm really enjoying how, like your second user name, you view the word 'apoc' as a personal attack. Not a coincidence, I'm sure.

 

Nobody is personally attacking you. As usual, you get flustered and accuse the other person of being angry. If that's how you're using prepper fantasy, then you're using it incorrectly. "you kill therefore conservative" is a superficial understanding of the game and tells me you really don't really understand what a fantasy is and how being blue balled in your revenge fantasy means it's not actually one. Which was addressed.

 

At this point, i think we should take shots on that word since it's never been used this much on the boards. 

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21 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

I'm really enjoying how, like your second user name, you view the word 'apoc' as a personal attack. Not a coincidence, I'm sure.

 

Nobody is personally attacking you. As usual, you get flustered and accuse the other person of being angry. If that's how you're using prepper fantasy, then you're using it incorrectly. "you kill therefore conservative" is a superficial understanding of the game and tells me you really don't really understand what a fantasy is and how being blue balled in your revenge fantasy means it's not actually one. Which was addressed.

 

At this point, i think we should take shots on that word since it's never been used this much on the boards. 

I’m literally talking about the gameplay, not the story. You keep ignoring what I’m saying and try to claim I’m arguing in bad faith. If I leave the word “fantasy” out, is that easier for you to understand? How about “prepper power slaughter simulator”. Is that easier for you? Or are yiu only capable in thinking within the themes if the story and the literal meaning of the word “fantasy”? Maybe you’ve just been locked up too long, but you got upset as soon as we called this a power fantasy. You are the one who threw personal attacks into a debate over what a game was.
 


and yes, I take offence at ridiculous accusations as to my person. You would too. It’s ridiculous and you and one other do it specifically to antagonize so you can make more baseless claims. Like Druckman with his claims of being progressive, how you treat people is more important than what you claim to be (or claim me to be). 

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6 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

I’m literally talking about the gameplay, not the story. You keep ignoring what I’m saying and try to claim I’m arguing in bad faith. If I leave the word “fantasy” out, is that easier for you to understand? How about “prepper power slaughter simulator”. Is that easier for you? Or are yiu only capable in thinking within the themes if the story?
 


and yes, I take offence at ridiculous accusations as to my person. You would too. It’s ridiculous and you and one other do it specifically to antagonize so you can make more baseless claims. 

 

Looking only at the gameplay won't give you a full picture as to the "wokeness" of the game, but that's not what you did. You specifically mentioned story earlier, saying Ellie's reactions to killing didn't matter because she killed others. Except they do matter for the points I mentioned. You're moving goal posts.

 

You sound just like your second username in the second part, btw. You can just come out; nobody really cares, but the lengths you go to hide who you are are so weird. Who's the other person?

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Just now, SaysWho? said:

 

Looking only at the gameplay won't give you a full picture as to the "wokeness" of the game, but that's not what you did. You specifically mentioned story earlier, saying Ellie's reactions to killing didn't matter because she killed others. Except they do matter for the points I mentioned. You're moving goal posts.

 

You sound just like your second username in the second part, btw. You can just come out; nobody really cares, but the lengths you go to hide who you are are so weird. Who's the other person?

Ive literally told this board exactly who I am, my full name, where I grew up. Thats it, thats all. I read a few old posts about “apoc”, and you claiming im him is offensive if the stuff I read is true. 
 

why are you so upset that some of us can see beyond the story. Ive said the story us wonderful, i made an offhand comment about the game not really being especially woke. It doesn’t delve into any jnew or very progressive themes. I really don’t know what is so progressive in “revenge will destroy you”. Its not a new story, its been done a thousand times. The characters are absolutely special, and the game is wonderful, but claiming it’s some super woke game is ridiculous. 
Celeste is what I would call woke. It tackles real issues. TLoU2 has some woke characters, but otherwise tells a story as old as storytelling. It tells it wonderfully, its moving and fun, but it’s got a long stretch to say it tackles progressive issues, while telling a story we’ve heard over and over. Other media does it ti. Nobody is nocking the game, but how is a revenge tale progressive?

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4 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Ive literally told this board exactly who I am, my full name, where I grew up. Thats it, thats all. I read a few old posts about “apoc”, and you claiming im him is offensive if the stuff I read is true. 
 

why are you so upset that some of us can see beyond the story. Ive said the story us wonderful, i made an offhand comment about the game not really being especially woke. It doesn’t delve into any jnew or very progressive themes. I really don’t know what is so progressive in “revenge will destroy you”. Its not a new story, its been done a thousand times. The characters are absolutely special, and the game is wonderful, but claiming it’s some super woke game is ridiculous. 
Celeste is what I would call woke. It tackles real issues. TLoU2 has some woke characters, but otherwise tells a story as old as storytelling. It tells it wonderfully, its moving and fun, but it’s got a long stretch to say it tackles progressive issues, while telling a story we’ve heard over and over. Other media does it ti. Nobody is nocking the game, but how is a revenge tale progressive?

 

That a theme has been tackled does not mean it's not a progressive theme. "Violence begets violence" is a progressive theme, also done by Meathead in All in the Family, so I guess it's not progressive anymore. 

 

Your second user name told the board who he was, too. He also had a tendency to get really angry and then say the other guy was upset. He also started to misspell things frequently once riled. You can keep pretending, but you're apoc to me from here on out.

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There's really no point in continuing this conversation (if that's what you can call it) with you. You keep restating points and not engaging in good faith, ignoring posts that address you, and you just seem physically incapable of changing that. I'll make a note of it for future reference, but please don't waste my time like this again. I don't mind talking themes or the politics of a game, but your performance here was criminally horrid.

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7 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

That a theme has been tackled does not mean it's not a progressive theme. "Violence begets violence" is a progressive theme, also done by Meathead in All in the Family, so I guess it's not progressive anymore. 

 

Your second user name told the board who he was, too. He also had a tendency to get really angry and then say the other guy was upset. He also started to misspell things frequently once riled. You can keep pretending, but you're apoc to me from here on out.

Ok, now you’re just going out of your way to reach. I misspell things because my phone screen is cracked and about % of the time I can’t press certain keys. I get fed up with hitting the same key over and over. Then next time it works.When I’m not spelling things wrong, I’m ysing my laptop. 

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2 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

There's really no point in continuing this conversation (if that's what you can call it) with you. You keep restating points and not engaging in good faith, ignoring posts that address you, and you just seem physically incapable of changing that. I'll make a note of it for future reference, but please don't waste my time like this again. I don't mind talking themes or the politics of a game, but your performance here was criminally horrid.

You’re the only one here engaging in bad faith arguments. You refuse to see any side but your own. 

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27 minutes ago, Rachel said:


Posting a fake name and a fake origin story proves nothing. 

 

My name is Gavin Foster. I was born on the west coast of Cyprus in the small city of Mandria. My father was a shoe cobbler and my mom worked at the market. I grew up fishing off the coast (much like Scott) and I really enjoy video games and drinking beer!

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The story behind The Last of Us Part II’s staggeringly realistic in-game character facial animation (PlayStation Blog)

Quote

It’s my first day in Seattle. Ellie and Dina are exploring a side room of a ruined synagogue. As has happened with frequent regularity since the game’s start, I open up Photo Mode. Naughty Dog’s latest is quickly proving to be a treasure trove for the photographic eye.

 

I pan round to compose my shot, looking to capture expressions, body language. To work out the best position for lighting. In doing so I spot Ellie’s gaze seemingly drawn to a painting in the room. I can’t interact with it, there’s no dialogue attached to its presence. Yet her facial expression gives every indication that she’s mulling the artwork over. Could Naughty Dog really have created subtle reactions for everything in the game?

 

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