Sony The Last of Us Part II OT - Best Served Cold, update: the story behind the game's realistic facial animations (PlayStation Blog)

[atom631]

41 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

She hasn't finished yet, but she's still playing. She's actually at the part @atom631 was talking about with 

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that creepy ass boss.

I LOVED the foreshadowing. It's part atmosphere, part level design. You're unable to get through that door, but you hear frightening sounds behind it. And in my mind, I thought that maybe it was an optional fight against a big infected or two that I didn't have to do since it was behind what I thought was an optional door. Once the power is on and you backtrack to that area, the entire door and wall is busted open and you have to go through it.

Like, bravo you fuckers, you crept me out. I love shit like that, though. Reminds me of P.T. when the girl is down the hallway and the lights go out. I stood there for 10 minutes not wanting to move.  

 

 Did you use the listening sense

Spoiler

When you hear that low growling trying to open the door, I immediately did the sense and you can see the outline of the monstrosity right on the other side of the door. Creeped me the fuck out  

 

 

[SaysWho?]

Just now, atom631 said:

 Did you use the listening sense

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When you hear that low growling trying to open the door, I immediately did the sense and you can see the outline of the monstrosity right on the other side of the door. Creeped me the fuck out  

 

 

 

Oh shit, I never did that.  

[Spork3245]

Spoiler

 

Screenshots I took, but tagging because one is a little spoiler-ish.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

I thought this was a very thought-provoking article on how Druckman's youth in Israel influenced some of his decisions for the game.

 

The Not So Hidden Israeli Politics of 'The Last of Us Part II' (Vice)

Quote

The game's co-director and co-writer Neil Druckmann, an Israeli who was born and raised in the West Bank before his family moved to the U.S., told the Washington Post that the game's themes of revenge can be traced back to the 2000 killing of two Israeli soldiers by a mob in Ramallah. Some of the gruesome details of the incident were captured on video, which Druckmann viewed. In his interview, he recounted the anger and desire for vengeance he felt when he saw the video—and how he later reconsidered and regretted those impulses, saying they made him feel “gross and guilty.” But it gave him the kernel of a story.

 

“I landed on this emotional idea of, can we, over the course of the game, make you feel this intense hate that is universal in the same way that unconditional love is universal?” Druckmann told the Post. “This hate that people feel has the same kind of universality. You hate someone so much that you want them to suffer in the way they’ve made someone you love suffer.”

 

"That's what this story is about, do the ends justify the means, and it's so much about perspective. If it was to save a strange kid maybe Joel would have made a very different decision, but when it was his tribe, his daughter, there was no question about what he was going to do," Druckmann said.

 

[SaysWho?]

9 hours ago, Emperor Diocletian II said:

I thought this was a very thought-provoking article on how Druckman's youth in Israel influenced some of his decisions for the game.

 

The Not So Hidden Israeli Politics of 'The Last of Us Part II' (Vice)

 

 

Excellent info, thanks for sharing. I've been catching up on TLOU2 articles to read about the development, cut content, influences, themes, etc., so this will be a nice addition.

[SaysWho?]

Marc Bernardin, producer for Star Trek: Picard:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

"The Last of Us Part II uncomfortable in the way that great art can be uncomfortable. It is challenging in the way that great knowledge is challenging. But it is also transcendent."

[SimpleG]

 

Mathew Matosis reviews are always great

[Brick]

I finally finished the game on Friday, and read through this thread and all the spoiler tags. What a truly remarkable game. I played on Survivor, which I think is the best way to play the game honestly. It make encounters tougher, sure, but not frustratingly so like in other games when you play on max difficulty; just take things slowly, stay in stealth as long as you can, etc. and it becomes a good, fun challenge that fits the setting of a world where resources are scarce, and enemies are deadly. I think for my NG+ (whenever I decide to play that), I will keep everything on Survivor except for companion AI just so they can take out more enemies, since I've already beaten the game, so I don't need the pride and ego boost of beating it all by myself. Speaking of the AI of your allies, it's much better that it was in the first game! It was always an immersion breaker when your companions would walk around, and be loud when trying to sneak around enemies, and since Uncharted 4 had similar issues, I feared that this game wouldn't address that problem as well, but thankfully they did. Sure there's some stumbles here and there, but that happens so rarely, especially compared to the first game that it's such a relief that they got it to work well. One issue I do not like, however, is when your companions don't move out of your way, or push you out into the open getting you spotted, or when they themselves get spotted. It happened rarely, but it's still bullshit and a piss off. Companions should not be able to push you, and them getting spotted isn't fair when it's not your fault that your cover is broken.

 

I think I have the record for longest completion time on the boards; my playtime was just over 53 hours! I am very meticulous, and a little OCD in checking every nook and cranny for supplies and collectibles though. Still missed a few somehow. I am also a massive perfectionist, so if an encounter didn't go correctly right off the bat I would restart. Over and over again. I really need to learn to let go of that feeling, and just adapt on the fly if stealth fails and I need to fight, especially when it's not too difficult to run, hide, and get back into stealth, even if the enemies will now be on high alert. I wonder if starting checkpoints contributes to your playtime though, and that's why mine is so high, or if it is only ticking up from actual time played, and restarting a checkpoint restarts your time.

 

This game is probably right up there with the first game for me. The first might still be a little better just because of the novelty of it when it came out, and the story was a little tighter, and a bit more focused, but I do appreciate the different style they went with here, and love the risks it took. It's a well done story, and these games continue to have the best acting I've ever seen in a video game. The level of acting on display is equal to what you'd see on a stage play, or premium cable show, or yes, even a movie. Bravo to each of the actors involved.

Spoiler

Also nice to see Jeffrey Wright in this. One of the trailers showed off his character quickly, and I was thinking he looked a bit like Jeffrey Wright, and it turns out it actually was him!

While the gameplay mechanics are a bit more refined, I don't think it was a big enough leap forward as I would have liked though. Still great, and a lot of fun with some nice additions, but for a sequel on new hardware I would have liked a bit more of a leap forward. Minor quibble. Also would have been nice to have a least one more Infected type. The improvements to stalkers though were nice; that first encounter with them freaked me the fuck out! Would have liked another big section like downtown Seattle that you see when you first get there. My absolute favourite part was the museum scene because it was so delightful, and beautiful.

 

Spoiler

Playing as Abby was certainly a shock after three days in Seattle with Ellie. At first, like many I hated her, even if I could understand why should would want to kill Joel, but then over the course of her gameplay I grew to understand her more, that by the time I'm back controlling Ellie, I didn't want to kill Abby! That is certainly one of the strengths of video games, since I'm not sure the same effect could have been made had I not been controlling Abby. 

 

On 6/19/2020 at 8:16 PM, Kal-El814 said:

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I didn’t read a lot of reviews but none of the ones I read suggested you’d be playing as anyone other than Ellie.

 

Given where I am in the game and how long it took me to get there, I’m wondering if outlets with review copies were prohibited from talking about what is most of the game  

 

ND and Sony can market their game however they want, of course, I just think it’s foolish to prohibit outlets from talking about the full breadth of a game in a review because of concerns about spoilers  

Also related to a BIG early spoiler. If you have to ask if you’re there, you’re not.

 

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Some of the preview footage / videos are obvious bait and switches, in hindsight, given what ends up motivating Ellie to go to Seattle. 

 

 

I can understand that frustration, but I can also understand why Naughty Dog put those embargoes in place (and embargoes in general since a few review outlets are frequently complained about spoiling something in a video review, so I can understand a developer saying, "hey please don't show or talk about anything from this part of the game". In fact I believe the first game had an embargo on its prologue, and that's one of the best openings to a game I've ever played, so I'm glad no reviews I looked at mentioned it so that it could surprise me, and ideally any piece of media should be gone into blind).

 

Spoiler

As for Naughty Dog themselves not talking about Abby, that is a little odder, especially how the Paris Games Week trailer showed off the moment when she met Lev and Yara. I wonder if after that (and after the somewhat negative reaction that trailer got with its level of violence on display against women with no context) Naughty Dog changed their mind about talking about Abby, and decided not to focus any marketing on her anymore.

 

In regards to hiding Joel's death, well I think it's pretty obvious why they would hide such a big moment like that. Before playing the game, while no one out right specifically spoiled it for me, the way people were talking about the game, how it "disrespected characters", and whatnot, I thought that maybe Joel would die, and that maybe the marketing was being misleading making us think that it would be Dina, and possibly other friend's of Ellie, that would get killed in that lodge, and that's why she went out for revenge, which is especially evident how no marketing, nor any reviews showed any gameplay with Dina past the prologue. Then I read about an article talking about a faked scene that Naughty Dog put out, and thinking about how no gameplay showed Joel with Ellie, and why the hell wouldn't he go with her to help her, I figured that one trailer where he grabs her to safety at the end, and says, "You didn't think I'd let you do this on your own", must have been faked, and sure enough I was right, even though it was still a shocking moment to see unfold.

 

Also I agree with you on the Seraphites being a little disappointing in how the only different tactic they used was the whistling. I thought Naughty Dog mentioned that they would move around differently, but I guess not. Them walking around like the WLF before they know you're there is fine enough, but after they realize you're there they should have been crouching around, trying to sneak up and flank you. Would have been a nice change of pace to have a faction that uses stealth on you. Imagine sneaking by a car, trying to creep up on someone, only for one of them to be underneath the car and grab you! I wonder if more things like this were planned, but had to be scrapped once deadlines were getting closer.

 

 

The negative impressions and reviews from whiny fans this game is getting though is ridiculous. A negative review that I can see the points to, but disagree with is fine, as it always is, but the ones that are just complaining with bad takes, whining about not getting what they wanted, and complaining about "plot holes" that aren't actually plot holes are just tiresome. I don't think I need to even mention the really toxic ones, so I won't bother since those are such disingenuous dribble anyway. The Angry Joe one has to be the worst I've seen in terms of reviews from somewhat "'professional fan" reviews. Mind you I was never a huge fan of the guy; I watched his reviews here and there, some could have good points, some could be funny, and even the ones I disagreed with I could at least understand, but the past few years he's just gotten so annoying. Honestly ever since The Last Jedi came out, and he had so many bad takes on that movie, starting catering to the toxic people that hate that movie (even "jokingly" giving Knives Out a negative review at first because Rian Johnson "ruined Star Wars"), and honestly I just don't think the guy is very smart, and his friends, especially that Other Joe guy, are just dumb. Very bad at interpreting, and analyzing things beyond their own fanboyism and biases.

 

 

Spoiler

Oh and @Phaseknox I'm sorry but your complaint about Ellie using her knife on Abby, and not giving her a fair fight is rather silly. She's trying to kill her! Fuck giving her a fair fight. Sure she probably also should have just picked up one of her guns and shot her, but even if you use the excuse that she wanted it to be more personal (Joker quote, "Guns are too quick. You can't savour all the little emotions"), didn't just want to shoot her in the back, and wanted to see the lights drain out from Abby's eyes because she hates her so much for killing Joel, why would she not use her knife? I don't know man, that complaint of your doesn't really make any sense. 

 

 

So yeah, I thought this game was beautiful, haunting, brutal, sad, depressing, emotionally draining, and fucking brilliant. I don't want to go into too much hyperbole here and sound like a raving fanboy, but I think this game is important, and we need more games like this that challenge us. I think we'll be talking about this game for a long time to come. I have no idea how Naughty Dog continues this series, but I can't wait to find out.

Spoiler

They could go with brand new characters, as I thought they would for this game, but if they do come up with another story for these characters, I doubt we'll be controlling Ellie again, just like how we didn't control Joel in this one. Maybe we'll control Abby again, or maybe Lev will get his own game. I really hope Naughty Dog ignores the haters if they want to use Abby again. One way I could see ending this franchise is having Ellie find people, fireflies or whoever, that would be able to develop a cure from her immunity, and she sacrifices herself to their research; peacefully going on her terms on an operating table the way she thinks she was supposed to all those years ago. Hell that could have been how this game could have ended if Ellie had not been so blinded by her rage at Abby; she could have found her, saved her from the pillars, and asked her if she knows of any Firefly outposts that would be able to develop a cure. Not forgiving Abby, but at least having her life matter. That certainly would have been quite the surprise, although I don't know if that would be any good of course, I'm just randomly brainstorming alternate endings lol. Instead, she's left broken, unfulfilled, and alone, which is all the more tragic when in the first game she said she's afraid of being by herself, of "ending up alone".

 

 

Some of my favourite lines:

Spoiler

 

"If somehow the Lord gave me a second chance at the moment...I would do it all over again."

 

"I don't think I can ever forgive you for that. But I would like to try."

 

And of course,

 

"I'm on a motherfucking dinosaur!"

 

 

 

I really regret not posting in here before beating the game so I could have discussed it with all of you while we all played. I guess I was afraid of accidentally spoiling something. I need to learn to realise that I can go back and read the spoiler tags after lol.

[Phaseknox]

On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2020 at 6:46 PM, Brick said:

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Oh and @Phaseknox I'm sorry but your complaint about Ellie using her knife on Abby, and not giving her a fair fight is rather silly. She's trying to kill her! Fuck giving her a fair fight. Sure she probably also should have just picked up one of her guns and shot her, but even if you use the excuse that she wanted it to be more personal (Joker quote, "Guns are too quick. You can't savour all the little emotions"), didn't just want to shoot her in the back, and wanted to see the lights drain out from Abby's eyes because she hates her so much for killing Joel, why would she not use her knife? I don't know man, that complaint of your doesn't really make any sense. 

 

Spoiler

I would agree that Ellie using her knife against Abby at the end would be a rather silly complaint if Abby had still been her big buff self, but she was extremely frail, weak and barely able to stand at that point so it just seemed a little underhanded to me that Ellie immediately starts cutting the shit out of her. From my perspective of the situation it would have made more sense for Ellie to rush at her and start wailing on her with her bare fists in a fit of rage unleashing her pent-up anger and aggression on her since I didn't get the feeling that her goal at that point was to simply kill her. As the player I wanted to engage in one final mano a mano brawl against Abby, not just use a knife as an advantage to win. It's not a major complaint, but it would have made the final fight more satisfying IMO.

 

[Brick]

2 hours ago, Phaseknox said:

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I would agree that Ellie using her knife against Abby at the end would be a rather silly complaint if Abby had still been her big buff self, but she was extremely frail, weak and barely able to stand at that point so it just seemed a little underhanded to me that Ellie immediately starts cutting the shit out of her. From my perspective of the situation it would have made more sense for Ellie to rush at her and start wailing on her with her bare fists in a fit of rage unleashing her pent-up anger and aggression on her since I didn't get the feeling that her goal at that point was to simply kill her. As the player I wanted to engage in one final mano a mano brawl against Abby, not just use a knife as an advantage to win. It's not a major complaint, but it would have made the final fight more satisfying IMO.

 

 

Spoiler

But again who cares about a fair fight when Ellie did want to kill her, frail and weak or not? Abby is the one who killed Joel, so Ellie isn't going to look at the situation and determine what is the fairest fight. What we want as a player is inconsequential to what the character wants in a story focused game. We are simply playing as them, unlike an RPG where the character is an avatar for us, and we make the choices. 

 

That's where I think a lot of the complaints about Ellie letting Abby go miss the point. So many of the complainers of this game mention how, they "wanted to kill Abby", and everything up to that part was pointless, but that's not the story that Naughty Dog wanted to tell, and they wanted to end it by having Ellie have a moment of mercy and let Abby go. This was Ellie's story, not ours, and she's going to make some choices that we disagree with, just like the first game was Joel's story, and he made some choices some of us wouldn't do (like killing the doctor). 

 

[BloodyHell]

On 8/5/2020 at 10:46 PM, Brick said:

I finally finished the game on Friday, and read through this thread and all the spoiler tags. What a truly remarkable game. I played on Survivor, which I think is the best way to play the game honestly. It make encounters tougher, sure, but not frustratingly so like in other games when you play on max difficulty; just take things slowly, stay in stealth as long as you can, etc. and it becomes a good, fun challenge that fits the setting of a world where resources are scarce, and enemies are deadly. I think for my NG+ (whenever I decide to play that), I will keep everything on Survivor except for companion AI just so they can take out more enemies, since I've already beaten the game, so I don't need the pride and ego boost of beating it all by myself. Speaking of the AI of your allies, it's much better that it was in the first game! It was always an immersion breaker when your companions would walk around, and be loud when trying to sneak around enemies, and since Uncharted 4 had similar issues, I feared that this game wouldn't address that problem as well, but thankfully they did. Sure there's some stumbles here and there, but that happens so rarely, especially compared to the first game that it's such a relief that they got it to work well. One issue I do not like, however, is when your companions don't move out of your way, or push you out into the open getting you spotted, or when they themselves get spotted. It happened rarely, but it's still bullshit and a piss off. Companions should not be able to push you, and them getting spotted isn't fair when it's not your fault that your cover is broken.

 

I think I have the record for longest completion time on the boards; my playtime was just over 53 hours! I am very meticulous, and a little OCD in checking every nook and cranny for supplies and collectibles though. Still missed a few somehow. I am also a massive perfectionist, so if an encounter didn't go correctly right off the bat I would restart. Over and over again. I really need to learn to let go of that feeling, and just adapt on the fly if stealth fails and I need to fight, especially when it's not too difficult to run, hide, and get back into stealth, even if the enemies will now be on high alert. I wonder if starting checkpoints contributes to your playtime though, and that's why mine is so high, or if it is only ticking up from actual time played, and restarting a checkpoint restarts your time.

 

This game is probably right up there with the first game for me. The first might still be a little better just because of the novelty of it when it came out, and the story was a little tighter, and a bit more focused, but I do appreciate the different style they went with here, and love the risks it took. It's a well done story, and these games continue to have the best acting I've ever seen in a video game. The level of acting on display is equal to what you'd see on a stage play, or premium cable show, or yes, even a movie. Bravo to each of the actors involved.

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Also nice to see Jeffrey Wright in this. One of the trailers showed off his character quickly, and I was thinking he looked a bit like Jeffrey Wright, and it turns out it actually was him!

While the gameplay mechanics are a bit more refined, I don't think it was a big enough leap forward as I would have liked though. Still great, and a lot of fun with some nice additions, but for a sequel on new hardware I would have liked a bit more of a leap forward. Minor quibble. Also would have been nice to have a least one more Infected type. The improvements to stalkers though were nice; that first encounter with them freaked me the fuck out! Would have liked another big section like downtown Seattle that you see when you first get there. My absolute favourite part was the museum scene because it was so delightful, and beautiful.

 

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Playing as Abby was certainly a shock after three days in Seattle with Ellie. At first, like many I hated her, even if I could understand why should would want to kill Joel, but then over the course of her gameplay I grew to understand her more, that by the time I'm back controlling Ellie, I didn't want to kill Abby! That is certainly one of the strengths of video games, since I'm not sure the same effect could have been made had I not been controlling Abby. 

 

 

I can understand that frustration, but I can also understand why Naughty Dog put those embargoes in place (and embargoes in general since a few review outlets are frequently complained about spoiling something in a video review, so I can understand a developer saying, "hey please don't show or talk about anything from this part of the game". In fact I believe the first game had an embargo on its prologue, and that's one of the best openings to a game I've ever played, so I'm glad no reviews I looked at mentioned it so that it could surprise me, and ideally any piece of media should be gone into blind).

 

  Hide contents

As for Naughty Dog themselves not talking about Abby, that is a little odder, especially how the Paris Games Week trailer showed off the moment when she met Lev and Yara. I wonder if after that (and after the somewhat negative reaction that trailer got with its level of violence on display against women with no context) Naughty Dog changed their mind about talking about Abby, and decided not to focus any marketing on her anymore.

 

In regards to hiding Joel's death, well I think it's pretty obvious why they would hide such a big moment like that. Before playing the game, while no one out right specifically spoiled it for me, the way people were talking about the game, how it "disrespected characters", and whatnot, I thought that maybe Joel would die, and that maybe the marketing was being misleading making us think that it would be Dina, and possibly other friend's of Ellie, that would get killed in that lodge, and that's why she went out for revenge, which is especially evident how no marketing, nor any reviews showed any gameplay with Dina past the prologue. Then I read about an article talking about a faked scene that Naughty Dog put out, and thinking about how no gameplay showed Joel with Ellie, and why the hell wouldn't he go with her to help her, I figured that one trailer where he grabs her to safety at the end, and says, "You didn't think I'd let you do this on your own", must have been faked, and sure enough I was right, even though it was still a shocking moment to see unfold.

 

Also I agree with you on the Seraphites being a little disappointing in how the only different tactic they used was the whistling. I thought Naughty Dog mentioned that they would move around differently, but I guess not. Them walking around like the WLF before they know you're there is fine enough, but after they realize you're there they should have been crouching around, trying to sneak up and flank you. Would have been a nice change of pace to have a faction that uses stealth on you. Imagine sneaking by a car, trying to creep up on someone, only for one of them to be underneath the car and grab you! I wonder if more things like this were planned, but had to be scrapped once deadlines were getting closer.

 

 

The negative impressions and reviews from whiny fans this game is getting though is ridiculous. A negative review that I can see the points to, but disagree with is fine, as it always is, but the ones that are just complaining with bad takes, whining about not getting what they wanted, and complaining about "plot holes" that aren't actually plot holes are just tiresome. I don't think I need to even mention the really toxic ones, so I won't bother since those are such disingenuous dribble anyway. The Angry Joe one has to be the worst I've seen in terms of reviews from somewhat "'professional fan" reviews. Mind you I was never a huge fan of the guy; I watched his reviews here and there, some could have good points, some could be funny, and even the ones I disagreed with I could at least understand, but the past few years he's just gotten so annoying. Honestly ever since The Last Jedi came out, and he had so many bad takes on that movie, starting catering to the toxic people that hate that movie (even "jokingly" giving Knives Out a negative review at first because Rian Johnson "ruined Star Wars"), and honestly I just don't think the guy is very smart, and his friends, especially that Other Joe guy, are just dumb. Very bad at interpreting, and analyzing things beyond their own fanboyism and biases.

 

 

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Oh and @Phaseknox I'm sorry but your complaint about Ellie using her knife on Abby, and not giving her a fair fight is rather silly. She's trying to kill her! Fuck giving her a fair fight. Sure she probably also should have just picked up one of her guns and shot her, but even if you use the excuse that she wanted it to be more personal (Joker quote, "Guns are too quick. You can't savour all the little emotions"), didn't just want to shoot her in the back, and wanted to see the lights drain out from Abby's eyes because she hates her so much for killing Joel, why would she not use her knife? I don't know man, that complaint of your doesn't really make any sense. 

 

 

So yeah, I thought this game was beautiful, haunting, brutal, sad, depressing, emotionally draining, and fucking brilliant. I don't want to go into too much hyperbole here and sound like a raving fanboy, but I think this game is important, and we need more games like this that challenge us. I think we'll be talking about this game for a long time to come. I have no idea how Naughty Dog continues this series, but I can't wait to find out.

  Hide contents

They could go with brand new characters, as I thought they would for this game, but if they do come up with another story for these characters, I doubt we'll be controlling Ellie again, just like how we didn't control Joel in this one. Maybe we'll control Abby again, or maybe Lev will get his own game. I really hope Naughty Dog ignores the haters if they want to use Abby again. One way I could see ending this franchise is having Ellie find people, fireflies or whoever, that would be able to develop a cure from her immunity, and she sacrifices herself to their research; peacefully going on her terms on an operating table the way she thinks she was supposed to all those years ago. Hell that could have been how this game could have ended if Ellie had not been so blinded by her rage at Abby; she could have found her, saved her from the pillars, and asked her if she knows of any Firefly outposts that would be able to develop a cure. Not forgiving Abby, but at least having her life matter. That certainly would have been quite the surprise, although I don't know if that would be any good of course, I'm just randomly brainstorming alternate endings lol. Instead, she's left broken, unfulfilled, and alone, which is all the more tragic when in the first game she said she's afraid of being by herself, of "ending up alone".

 

 

Some of my favourite lines:

  Hide contents

 

"If somehow the Lord gave me a second chance at the moment...I would do it all over again."

 

"I don't think I can ever forgive you for that. But I would like to try."

 

And of course,

 

"I'm on a motherfucking dinosaur!"

 

 

 

I really regret not posting in here before beating the game so I could have discussed it with all of you while we all played. I guess I was afraid of accidentally spoiling something. I need to learn to realise that I can go back and read the spoiler tags after lol.

 I Know you made a very long post, but on the topic of angry joe, I’ve never seen a guy so incapable of understanding subtext, subtlety, or even basic storytelling. The idea that he calls himself a critic, and people take him seriously, says bad things about this industry and the people who consume it.

[Brick]

2 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

 I Know you made a very long post, but on the topic of angry joe, I’ve never seen a guy so incapable of understanding subtext, subtlety, or even basic storytelling. The idea that he calls himself a critic, and people take him seriously, says bad things about this industry and the people who consume it.

 

It's seriously bad. It's frustrating even. If anyone is morbidly curious I encourage you to actually watch his TLoUPII review, as well as his review and discussion videos on The Last Jedi.

[Phaseknox]

4 hours ago, Brick said:

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But again who cares about a fair fight when Ellie did want to kill her, frail and weak or not? Abby is the one who killed Joel, so Ellie isn't going to look at the situation and determine what is the fairest fight. What we want as a player is inconsequential to what the character wants in a story focused game. We are simply playing as them, unlike an RPG where the character is an avatar for us, and we make the choices. 

 

That's where I think a lot of the complaints about Ellie letting Abby go miss the point. So many of the complainers of this game mention how, they "wanted to kill Abby", and everything up to that part was pointless, but that's not the story that Naughty Dog wanted to tell, and they wanted to end it by having Ellie have a moment of mercy and let Abby go. This was Ellie's story, not ours, and she's going to make some choices that we disagree with, just like the first game was Joel's story, and he made some choices some of us wouldn't do (like killing the doctor). 

 

Spoiler

Your points are valid, but also show why I tend to prefer RPGs over most other genres because as a player I do like to have some form of choice at times in the games that I play. As much as I enjoyed The Last of Us Part II, there's no denying that it felt a little archaic from a design perspective since it was so directed and linear. And it felt more like Neil Druckmann's story instead of Ellie's. Some of it worked for me, and some of it didn't. I found it entertaining for the most part, but I also feel that some things should have been done/handled differently.

 

3 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

on the topic of angry joe, I’ve never seen a guy so incapable of understanding subtext, subtlety, or even basic storytelling. The idea that he calls himself a critic, and people take him seriously, says bad things about this industry and the people who consume it.

I used to find Angry Joe's reviews somewhat entertaining and humorous despite not always agreeing with his opinions, but they've pretty much become bad comedy skits at this point. For example, the forced comedy bits in his Ghost of Tsushima review were so stupid that I couldn't keep watching.

[SaysWho?]

It's embarrassing that Angry Joe is invited to anything gaming related. Or Boogie.

 

Just embarrassing for video game criticism.

[Brick]

Grounded and a permanent death mode will be added soon it seems.

[BloodyHell]

10 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

It's embarrassing that Angry Joe is invited to anything gaming related. Or Boogie.

 

Just embarrassing for video game criticism.

Boogie is seriously mentally ill and people shouldn’t even watch him.

[Pikachu]

 

[gamer.tv]

I've never cared about different modes or harder difficulties, but grounded looks pretty decent. 

[Brick]

18 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

It's embarrassing that Angry Joe is invited to anything gaming related. Or Boogie.

 

Just embarrassing for video game criticism.

 

8 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

Boogie is seriously mentally ill and people shouldn’t even watch him.

 

I never watched Boogie or cared for him (his Francis character is just obnoxious and annoying), but what exactly is the problem people have with him currently? Seems a lot of people are hating on him lately, and as someone who doesn't care for his content, I don't know why. What did he do, or is it just his overall style and content? From what little of him I have seen he seems to always want to be centrist, and play both sides to arguments, without ever taking a side himself, to a frustrating degree, even when one side is clearly more in the right. There was also that thing with him and Anita Sarkeesian from a few years ago.

[BloodyHell]

4 hours ago, Brick said:

 

 

I never watched Boogie or cared for him (his Francis character is just obnoxious and annoying), but what exactly is the problem people have with him currently? Seems a lot of people are hating on him lately, and as someone who doesn't care for his content, I don't know why. What did he do, or is it just his overall style and content? From what little of him I have seen he seems to always want to be centrist, and play both sides to arguments, without ever taking a side himself, to a frustrating degree, even when one side is clearly more in the right. There was also that thing with him and Anita Sarkeesian from a few years ago.

Theres a lot of accusations of him being very mentally abusive to people, including his ex, and a porn star he met on a sugar daddy website.  His sister says most of his stories about his terrible childhood are lies. He’s said racist things on stream. Theres a huge list.

 

Raid Night is the only funny thing I’ve seen him do.

[Brick]

42 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Theres a lot of accusations of him being very mentally abusive to people, including his ex, and a porn star he met on a sugar daddy website.  His sister says most of his stories about his terrible childhood are lies. He’s said racist things on stream. Theres a huge list.

 

Raid Night is the only funny thing I’ve seen him do.

 

Well shit. Racist things on stream is a surprise. 

[BloodyHell]

1 minute ago, Brick said:

 

Well shit. Racist things on stream is a surprise. 

He says dumb things, then blames his mental illness. It’s a pattern.

[Brick]

1 minute ago, BloodyHell said:

He says dumb things, then blames his mental illness. It’s a pattern.

 

Jesus. That's like the excuse, "I didn't mean to say the n-word, I was just caught in the moment of the game and got angry". Such BS. 

[BloodyHell]

3rd highest lifetime sales on Playstation. 
 

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/the-last-of-us-2-is-now-playstations-third-highest-grossing-game-ever-in-the-us/amp/

[Brick]

"Go wOkE gO BrOkE" 

[Brick]

So how does the listen mode work in Grounded? In the first game it was disabled, and any upgrades that used supplements to improve the listen mode were taken out, and all other upgrades were rebalanced, but in this game there are quite a few upgrades that improve the listen mode. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

4 hours ago, Brick said:

So how does the listen mode work in Grounded?

 

Listen mode is disabled for Grounded difficulty here as well.

[BloodyHell]

19 hours ago, Brick said:

"Go wOkE gO BrOkE" 

I mean, I don’t even get how the game is “woke”. Its about a bunch of nostly right wing fanatics. Aside from having some lgbt characters, which is background noise and never a central story point, its literally a right wing power fantasy.

[TheLeon]

3 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

I mean, I don’t even get how the game is “woke”. Its about a bunch of nostly right wing fanatics. Aside from having some lgbt characters, which is background noise and never a central story point, its literally a right wing power fantasy.

That’s really all it takes for some people. That, and a protagonist that isn’t a white male. 

[SaysWho?]

TLOUII is right-wing? That's an interesting take and I'd argue objectively wrong.

 

Putting aside the LGBT and trans character representation -- and the fact that a woman is muscular, because right-wingers don't seem to like that -- the bloodlust usually falls on the conservative spectrum, wanting to quickly put a bullet into someone or sentence to death anyone you even think is guilty, and calling people "bleeding heart liberals" for considering forgiveness, the abolishment of the death penalty, and separating a victims' families feelings from what justice should be applied. 

 

If all the factions are right-wing fanatics, then the game clearly is not supporting any of their world views. The "power trip" is met with 

Spoiler

bad endings, friends dying, and inability to play a close friend's song on guitar.

 

Power trip would be more GOWIII, where there's no moral gray in getting revenge on the Gods of Olympus.

[SimpleG]

I assume @BloodyHell meant by right wing is the end of the world prepper fantasy.

[SaysWho?]

Just now, SimpleG said:

I assume @BloodyHell meant by right wing is the end of the world prepper fantasy.

 

We're talking about the entire game being a literal right-wing power fantasy. That's definitely not what it was.

[Kal-El814]

3 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

TLOUII is right-wing? That's an interesting take and I'd argue objectively wrong.

 

Putting aside the LGBT and trans character representation -- and the fact that a woman is muscular, because right-wingers don't seem to like that -- the bloodlust usually falls on the conservative spectrum, wanting to quickly put a bullet into someone or sentence to death anyone you even think is guilty, and calling people "bleeding heart liberals" for considering forgiveness, the abolishment of the death penalty, and separating a victims' families feelings from what justice should be applied. 

 

If all the factions are right-wing fanatics, then the game clearly is not supporting any of their world views. The "power trip" is met with 

  Reveal hidden contents

bad endings, friends dying, and inability to play a close friend's song on guitar.

 

Power trip would be more GOWIII, where there's no moral gray in getting revenge on the Gods of Olympus.

 

The politics of Naughty Dog games are weird considering their content.

 

The Last of Us games go out of their way to be as apolitical as possible considering what happened... but I don’t think it’s out of bounds to call the games out for being a prepper fantasy simulator to some extent. In the first game Joel specifically uses a lot of language that IRL preppers use to justify his actions. And you can’t really have a game where the government failed to prevent the pandemic and in which the protagonist constantly and openly criticizes any attempt at post breakout organizations without saying SOMETHING political.

 

Do I think it’s some right wing wank fest? No. But I don’t think the fact that the characters end up paying some kind of price negates that across the games, you’re spending dozens of hours in survivalist fantasy camp. The second game is certainly progressive in its portrayal of LGBTQ characters despite this, so I wouldn’t be surprised if Druckmann identifies as a little l libertarian; these games are very much in that vein.

 

Also, Naughty Dog’s other prestige series involves a white man claiming an ancestry that isn’t his as he travels the world and steals from other countries/cultures. They have a shit reputation for crunch, so it’s not like they’re out they’re stanning for progressive politics in general.

 

It’s an interesting topic.

[SaysWho?]

11 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

The politics of Naughty Dog games are weird considering their content.

 

The Last of Us games go out of their way to be as apolitical as possible considering what happened... but I don’t think it’s out of bounds to call the games out for being a prepper fantasy simulator to some extent. In the first game Joel specifically uses a lot of language that IRL preppers use to justify his actions. And you can’t really have a game where the government failed to prevent the pandemic and in which the protagonist constantly and openly criticizes any attempt at post breakout organizations without saying SOMETHING political.

 

Do I think it’s some right wing wank fest? No. But I don’t think the fact that the characters end up paying some kind of price negates that across the games, you’re spending dozens of hours in survivalist fantasy camp. The second game is certainly progressive in its portrayal of LGBTQ characters despite this, so I wouldn’t be surprised if Druckmann identifies as a little l libertarian; these games are very much in that vein.

 

Also, Naughty Dog’s other prestige series involves a white man claiming an ancestry that isn’t his as he travels the world and steals from other countries/cultures. They have a shit reputation for crunch, so it’s not like they’re out they’re stanning for progressive politics in general.

 

It’s an interesting topic.

 

This is objectively incorrect.

 

2016: "I see myself as a pretty progressive person and yet my default is a white, straight, christian male," he said. "That's interesting because I'm Jewish and yet that's the norm for me right now. It's a challenge and it requires energy to deviate from that. Therefore it's important to empower people on the team that are going to push for this pillar."

 

2020 tweet:

 

 

They promote progressive values.That doesn't mean their crunch culture is consistent with them. 

 

What Joel says doesn't mean anything, and it's a mistake people make when analyzing films: the supposed politics of a character doesn't necessarily mean the game itself is promoting it. Joel's clearly not meant to be a paragon of virtue and righteousness considering the events of both games. That there was a debate about his actions in the first is a testament to the very expertly done and controversial final act. TLOU2 introduced significantly more instances when the player doesn't actually want to do what the game is requiring them to do.

 

TLOU2 clearly is not a power trip by any length or stretch of the imagination unless power trips include 

Spoiler

vomiting upon realizing you killed a pregnant woman, PTSD, losing your friends, feeling empty, losing your wife, and losing your ability to play a very important song.

Or in Abby's case, losing all your friends and then nearly being murdered at the end.

That's not a power trip: that's a story about how revenge doesn't end up the way you want it to. 

 

 

[Kal-El814]

2 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

TLOU2 clearly is not a power trip by any length or stretch of the imagination unless power trips include 

  Reveal hidden contents

vomiting upon realizing you killed a pregnant woman, PTSD, losing your friends, feeling empty, losing your wife, and losing your ability to play a very important song.

Or in Abby's case, losing all your friends and then nearly being murdered at the end.

That's not a power trip: that's a story about how revenge doesn't end up the way you want it to. 

 

 

 

I think this is a basic take. Phantom Pain’s perspective on conflict, war, soldiers, PMCs, MAD, nukes, etc., is obvious. The characters involved absolutely pay a price for their actions. That doesn’t mean that the gameplay isn’t a power fantasy chock full of gun porn. It’s both of those things. It’s the same with TLoU games. Do the characters pay a price for their actions? Absolutely, that isn’t in doubt. The gameplay itself encourages and rewards violence. You get the most out of every area by killing everything in it, searching the cleared areas for loot which makes you better at killing everyone in the next area, etc. There is no incentive for not engaging in violence and unlike other games in which non-violent actions have an upside either in terms of story branching or via the gameplay, it’s to the detriment of the player to not kill as many people / infected as possible in TLoU games. The gameplay is pure power fantasy, the plot demanding the characters pay a price for those actions doesn’t change that.