Sony The Last of Us Part II OT - Best Served Cold, update: the story behind the game's realistic facial animations (PlayStation Blog)

[Spork3245]

10 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Why, exactly, is a lesbian Jew so outrageous?

Because people are fucking stupid.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

3 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

Because people are fucking stupid.

Well, duh. I just keep seeing that specifically pointed out, as if there's something particularly egregious about that. I didn't know if there was more to it.

 

I haven't followed the controversy, really all I know is from this place.

[Spork3245]

1 minute ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Well, duh. I just keep seeing that specifically pointed out, as if there's something particularly egregious about that. I didn't know if there was more to it.

 

I haven't followed the controversy, really all I know is from this place.

Orthodox and Hasidic, I’m pretty sure, freak out about it (gay/lesbian)... but that’s a pretty small percentage of the Jewish population afaik. 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

Just now, Spork3245 said:

Orthodox and Hasidic, I’m pretty sure, freak out about it (gay/lesbian)... but that’s a pretty small percentage of the Jewish population afaik. 

Yeah, I know. I was always under the impression much of the Jewish community leans to the left, outside of smaller ultra-orthodox sects.

[Spork3245]

1 minute ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Yeah, I know. I was always under the impression much of the Jewish community leans to the left, outside of smaller ultra-orthodox sects.

I sadly know a lot of non-Orthodox Trump-loving Republican Jews. The leaps in logic they use to defend him and statements like “there’s good people on both sides” regarding the tiki-torch brigade in Charlottesville chanting “Jews will not replace us” is epic.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

smh.

[Phaseknox]

I've played 15 hours so far, and it's been awesome the entire time. I can't remember the last time that a game has addicted me like this. It's nonstop entertainment. It's like a mix of the first The Last of Us, Days Gone, I Am Alive, Manhunt, Resident Evil and Tomb Raider (2013). The graphics are gorgeous, it's the best looking game that I've seen even beating out the likes of Horizon Zero Dawn, Red Dead Redemption II and Uncharted 4. The attention to detail is incredible.

The game itself is a great mix of third person action adventure and stealth combined with survival horror offering a good balance of semi-open exploration areas, and more linear combat heavy ones. Speaking of combat, it's some of the most visceral and satisfying that I've experienced in a game. It's brutal, and violent. And the violence is realistic and not cartoonish like it is in so many games, it's nice to play a game that doesn't feel like it's holding back to appeal to the masses.

 

The variety of weapons at your disposal is fantastic: pistols, revolvers, rifles, shotguns, bow and arrows, knives, baseball bats, crowbars, lead pipes, machetes, Molotov cocktails, shock bombs, smoke bombs, proximity bombs, bottles, bricks, etc. You have something for every type of enemy encounter, and it's entirely up to you how you approach each situation.

While it has its cinematic story moments, it's more gameplay driven than the first game. A lot of the environments are bigger and more open than they were in the first game as well offering more environmental interaction, exploration, puzzles and platforming. There's also a good blend of both outdoor and indoor levels which is nice for variety.

 

It's a shame that more developers don't have the balls to make games like this, because after gaming for approximately 40 years I admit that I'm starting to get tired of the same old rehashed/reskinned shit that doesn't take any chances and play it safe to avoid controversy and appeal to mass consumption. We need more games like this with the attitude that if you don't like it then don't play it, because not everything is for everyone. It's as simple as that.

[skillzdadirecta]

4 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

Wait, what? First two games? Is there a Tlou I don’t know about????

I was talking about the Left Behind DLC. I own it but never played it and had no idea how long it was. 

 

 

[Spork3245]

So... I haven’t played TLoU1 since it came out, BUT, I don’t remember this many jump scares or feeling like I was playing a straight-up horror game at times. Some areas with infected are tense beyond belief.

[skillzdadirecta]

3 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

So... I haven’t played TLoU1 since it came out, BUT, I don’t remember this many jump scares or feeling like I was playing a straight-up horror game at times. Some areas with infected are tense beyond belief.

This is so true... they use actual darkness really well in this game. 

[Spork3245]

1 minute ago, skillzdadirecta said:

This is so true... they use actual darkness really well in this game. 

It’s not even just the darkness it’s... well, you’ll know when you get there  

[skillzdadirecta]

Just now, Spork3245 said:

It’s not even just the darkness it’s... well, you’ll know when you get there  

You talking about when

Spoiler

You encounter the shamblers for the first time? That's the sequence I was talking about. I just got to through that sequence and Ellie and Dina are now in the theater. I just started the flashback sequence with Elle and Joel at the dinosaur museum. 

 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

Oh, ffs. Why is the system resetting my HDR and Surround sound settings? Really annoying. 

[Spork3245]

5 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

You talking about when

  Hide contents

You encounter the shamblers for the first time? That's the sequence I was talking about. I just got to through that sequence and Ellie and Dina are now in the theater. I just started the flashback sequence with Elle and Joel at the dinosaur museum. 

 

Nope. I don’t want to spoil anything. You’ll know when you get there. @ mention me when you think you’re there, please  

[skillzdadirecta]

6 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

Nope. I don’t want to spoil anything. You’ll know when you get there. @ mention me when you think you’re there, please  

Will do. 

[johnny]

23 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

It’s not even just the darkness it’s... well, you’ll know when you get there  

Are you talking about 

Spoiler

The stalkers? Cuz that was fucking creepy and my asshole was clenched for a few minutes but I was able to hug a wall and found a good spot to eventually snipe them with my scope on 

 

[Kal-El814]

1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

It's not just because you're playing (not really a spoiler, but being careful):

 

  Reveal hidden contents

as Ellie, a woman, but the fact the game is very open and normal and frank about her also being a lesbian. The more muscular female design of Abby is also something they hate. Also having Dina being a lesbian Jew grinds their gears even more. I saw many negative comments about how the better graphics make Joel look "weaker" with "slumped shoulders" where they took comparison screenshots from the less graphically impressive remastered TLOU to redone flashback scenes to the same parts from Part II. It's insane how deep their irrationality goes. They hate the game isn't a power fantasy, but one that forces you to "feel things" and "confront things" which we all know is not something they want to do (self-reflection?). And the new rising theme in our generation that heroism isn't about feeling good, justice, or self-sacrifice (which is really self-destructive) but that heroism is about saving everyone and finding ways (creative ways) to be a hero whilst not having to resort to heroic self sacrifice or bloodying your hands or soul by killing people. The same theme was present when Rose stopped Finn from killing himself to save the Rebels in The Last Jedi and guess what - they lived anyway (a different way) by finding the escape route out of the caves and having Luke show up. Again, it's a very new idea and concept of heroism that I see TLOU Part II beginning to comment on as well. It's partly why these same people hate TLJ - heroism being saving everyone, having empathy, and choosing more pacifist means of combating fascism and hate? I wonder what the recent peaceful protests just were. It works, and it's a new brand of heroism I think is more effective. 

 

 

I suspect it’s also because (character spoilers)...

 

Spoiler

Lev is trans.

Edit - finished the game tonight. I’ll post more thoughts and full spoilers when it’s not late. But in broad strokes I think what I’ve said elsewhere is still how I feel in general... it’s a really great game with compelling characters where the gameplay ultimately compromises the message. And it’s probably a couple hours / one area too long. 

[heydude93]

Haven't played it yet so I watched the first 3 or 4 hours via twitch.  Initial reaction is this could be the first AAA game narrative that's gobsmacked me into caring in its dramatic storytelling so much it has me wondering how/why it's used in a video game medium instead of a live action series or movie.  I'm having a weird response to it that's similar to what I imagine I'd feel if Game of Thrones or Blade Runner were animated movies with the hyperreal style of Kingsglaive instead of live action. 

 

 That said, my main issue with story games thus far (ESPECIALLY tripe like The Witcher and Mass Effect) has always been dissatisfaction that they're only well written if your main exposure to narrative is video games, and that ain't a problem here.  Everyone knows if the style of acting and writing in those games were beat to beat similar in a TV series or movie it would be tough to get made, much less have the praise it does so it's actually shocking how emotionally resonant this AAA story is so far. Tbh I'd be lying if I said I expected it to be.

 

If the rest of TLOU2  is at the level of those opening hours I’d like to think the bar has been thoroughly raised and within ten years we'll look back on most pre-TLOU2 story games and feel silly about fooling ourselves into being as emotionally invested in them as we were.

 

 

 

[Firewithin]

39 minutes ago, johnny said:

Are you talking about 

  Hide contents

The stalkers? Cuz that was fucking creepy and my asshole was clenched for a few minutes but I was able to hug a wall and found a good spot to eventually snipe them with my scope on 

 

Fuck these ones lol

[Moa]

1 hour ago, Kal-El814 said:

Edit - finished the game tonight. I’ll post more thoughts and full spoilers when it’s not late. But in broad strokes I think what I’ve said elsewhere is still how I feel in general... it’s a really great game with compelling characters where the gameplay ultimately compromises the message. And it’s probably a couple hours / one area too long. 

 

I think it's interesting that the game's attempts to resolve the inherent ludonarrative dissonance of action games created it's own weird dissonance in doing so. It's no longer the disparity between the character's actions and how you're supposed to perceive them but rather the dissonance between the game's ultimate message and its medium. It's all very Funny Games.

[Greatoneshere]

4 hours ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Why, exactly, is a lesbian Jew so outrageous?

 

For the reasons Spork mentioned. Additionally, alt-right people hate LGBTQ and Jews and so a character who is both makes it worse to them. 

 

1 hour ago, Moa said:

 

I think it's interesting that the game's attempts to resolve the inherent ludonarrative dissonance of action games created it's own weird dissonance in doing so. It's no longer the disparity between the character's actions and how you're supposed to perceive them but rather the dissonance between the game's ultimate message and its medium. It's all very Funny Games.

 

Agreed, my take as well so far at least.

[heydude93]

On 6/23/2020 at 12:27 AM, Moa said:

 

I think it's interesting that the game's attempts to resolve the inherent ludonarrative dissonance of action games created it's own weird dissonance in doing so. It's no longer the disparity between the character's actions and how you're supposed to perceive them but rather the dissonance between the game's ultimate message and its medium. It's all very Funny Games.

 

Regarding dissonance in TLOU2 between the message and medium, you're saying you feel a disparity between the game's attempts at portraying violence as shocking and sad vs attempts at curating fun gameplay?  That its trying to have its cake and eat it too, like Funny Games if it were portraying some violent moments as thrilling (which it really doesn't, so I'm confused about the comparison to TLOU, if that game does have thrilling violence)?

[SimpleG]

My review on the first 1/2 to 3/4

Yall gonna disagree with me on probably most of it also I have stayed 100% spoiler free of the game so dont spoil the rest

Spoiler

The story is really bland. The first 60-70% of the game is check point to check point because "the princess is in another castle".The side stories made a bigger impact on me then the main.You basically  are just slaughtering wave after wave of fodder to have Ellie do the worst possible interrogations against person of interest so you can  watch her fail miserably.

Having her show some humanity after the torture scene would have been great if not for the fact I had done far worse to many more before reaching her and I mean way worse, just a minute or so before I blew a leg clean off nameless goon #257 and watched her scream and pull her self around for a good 5-10 seconds before I splattered her brains on the floor. The disconnect is bad.

 

 Owen and pregnant lady scene was fucking terrible how many times are we gonna  see the someone threaten another with a gun while they slowly walk towards them and then try to wrestle the gun away and then Ellie who has tangled with full grown weapon wielding manics struggle with a pregnant lady. Of course  we get to the "drop the gun" trope but not before we barge thru the door without looking as if thats not caused us trouble before.If these characters were in experienced none of this would be an issue but they are not , these are terminators disguised as young adults

 

Now we are playing as Abby and I honestly I dont really care for them I am trying not to rush thru but I assuming this ND idea of trying to have the player sympathize with the "villain" I am surprised we didnt get a pop up after playing fetch with the dog that says " Now dont you feel bad !" It feels very amateurish 

 

 

 

Gameplay

The puzzles are shit but I prefer it that way I am not trying to find a piece of the tri force . The combat is good but the AI is so fucking bad that it ruins the experience.  Outside of a few scenes I never had to use the gadgets other then Molotovs . The sound mechanic works when the dev wants it to and infected only ever make noise when you see them up until then they sit motionless waiting for a passerby . Schrodinger's Clicker

 

 

Characters

I love them and the interactions and honestly could have used a lot more from them.Ellie and Dina make for a interesting team and they banter well. 

Tommy is a predator , hes a murder machine that honestly could have handled this on his own

 

 

Also fuck pushing open doors that have been blocked, I really think ND was just trolling at the amount of times you have to do this, I know why they do it but for fuck sakes come up something different .

 

[Rick2101]

My only complaint about the Jewish girl is that her AI can be bad at times. She just won’t move (or she would push me away when I’m in cover) and then I get spotted 

[Nokt]

3 hours ago, SimpleG said:

My review on the first 1/2 to 3/4

Yall gonna disagree with me on probably most of it also I have stayed 100% spoiler free of the game so dont spoil the rest

  Hide contents

The story is really bland. The first 60-70% of the game is check point to check point because "the princess is in another castle".The side stories made a bigger impact on me then the main.You basically  are just slaughtering wave after wave of fodder to have Ellie do the worst possible interrogations against person of interest so you can  watch her fail miserably.

Having her show some humanity after the torture scene would have been great if not for the fact I had done far worse to many more before reaching her and I mean way worse, just a minute or so before I blew a leg clean off nameless goon #257 and watched her scream and pull her self around for a good 5-10 seconds before I splattered her brains on the floor. The disconnect is bad.

 

 Owen and pregnant lady scene was fucking terrible how many times are we gonna  see the someone threaten another with a gun while they slowly walk towards them and then try to wrestle the gun away and then Ellie who has tangled with full grown weapon wielding manics struggle with a pregnant lady. Of course  we get to the "drop the gun" trope but not before we barge thru the door without looking as if thats not caused us trouble before.If these characters were in experienced none of this would be an issue but they are not , these are terminators disguised as young adults

 

Now we are playing as Abby and I honestly I dont really care for them I am trying not to rush thru but I assuming this ND idea of trying to have the player sympathize with the "villain" I am surprised we didnt get a pop up after playing fetch with the dog that says " Now dont you feel bad !" It feels very amateurish 

 

 

 

Gameplay

The puzzles are shit but I prefer it that way I am not trying to find a piece of the tri force . The combat is good but the AI is so fucking bad that it ruins the experience.  Outside of a few scenes I never had to use the gadgets other then Molotovs . The sound mechanic works when the dev wants it to and infected only ever make noise when you see them up until then they sit motionless waiting for a passerby . Schrodinger's Clicker

 

 

Characters

I love them and the interactions and honestly could have used a lot more from them.Ellie and Dina make for a interesting team and they banter well. 

Tommy is a predator , hes a murder machine that honestly could have handled this on his own

 

 

Also fuck pushing open doors that have been blocked, I really think ND was just trolling at the amount of times you have to do this, I know why they do it but for fuck sakes come up something different .

 

 

I wouldn't go as far as bland, but yeah. The first game really progresses naturally where this feels a lot more forced. I'm not a huge fan of the way the story is laid out either, the random jumps around make me feel like its there for shock value, but I feel like had they rearranged it a little bit it would have had a much more lasting impact. I never felt anything positive for Abby. I never got the villain mentality out of my head, no matter what she did. I felt worse for her friends because they actually showed regret/remorse for killing Joel or at the very least letting Abby kill Joel the way she did.

 

The first game wasn't really great on puzzles either. I think in general the game does stellar work to refine what the first game did. The AI might be a tad on the easy side, but you have the option to up the difficulty at any moment.

The character interactions is one of the reasons I grew so attached to the characters in the first game and it really feels like it takes a back seat in this game. I would have loved to see more time with Dina, Jesse, or even Tommy. Running around Bill's town with Ellie and Bill bickering back and forth always gets a couple chuckles out of me.

 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

Almost 13 hours in. I’m bummed I have to work the next three nights, which means I won’t get to play it again until Friday. Just no time when you’re doing back to back to back 12 hour shifts. 
 

Spoiler

I left off right after Jesse finds you and you a escape, then go into a flashback with Tommy. 

 

It'll definitely be one of my favorites from this generation, but I enjoyed the pacing and story better with the first game thus far. 
 

This is a game I play slowly. Don’t want to miss stuff, so I try to explore everything, though I still get pissed when I unknowingly advance and It prevents me from going back to collect stuff I missed. 

[SaysWho?]

Not quoting @CastlevaniaNut18 because I'm a stupid motherfucker who has quoted people with spoilers marked and I'd see the spoiler text via the quote  

 

I'm sad facing for the working the next three nights. My parents have been visiting and I haven't had much time to play besides an hour on Sunday. They said they did it on purpose so we could celebrate Father's Day and I couldn't play my new game.

 

Or not, it's been fun with them, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't looking forward to really playing some more today!

[Keyser_Soze]

52 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

Not quoting @CastlevaniaNut18 because I'm a stupid motherfucker who has quoted people with spoilers marked and I'd see the spoiler text via the quote

 

 

I'll be the one who decides if you're a stupid motherfucker or not

[Spork3245]

8 hours ago, johnny said:

Are you talking about 

  Hide contents

The stalkers? Cuz that was fucking creepy and my asshole was clenched for a few minutes but I was able to hug a wall and found a good spot to eventually snipe them with my scope on 

 

 

That's definitely one area. Keep playing.

  

[SaysWho?]

1 hour ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

 

I'll be the one who decides if you're a stupid motherfucker or not

 

Does this mean there's a chance I'm not?  

[BloodyHell]

11 hours ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Why, exactly, is a lesbian Jew so outrageous?

Because they are hateful people 

[BloodyHell]

I beat this last night. I planned on jumping in to a bloodborne replay, but I think im going to buy Desperado 3 for something more lighthearted. 
 

The game was incredible, definitely in my top 5 experiences this gen. The only games i liked more were bloodborne (this is by far my game of the generation), Spider-Man (I can’t think of a more “pure fun” gaming experience), BotW, and Sekiro.
 

 

I won’t get into my overall thoughts just yet, I definitely need time to process everything, and I want to wait until more have beaten it as well. 

[Kal-El814]

Alright, so here's my mega post.

 

As I said last night, in general this is a great game. Technically and artistically it's a marvel. The gameplay is generally very good, even if it's very badly balanced. I also think the game is probably about 2 hours long and they run out of gameplay ideas 2/3 of the way through. The main characters are well realized and compelling and I spent the whole game wondering what was going to happen next and reluctant to put down the controller. I also think the gameplay compromises the narrative and makes the whole affair disjointed if you pause to think about it for any length of time.

 

I had a really great time playing it.

 

So the spoiler free, general stuff.

 

Just about everything "artsy" or technical about this game is great. The animation is bonkers, the characters are always interesting to look at, the sound is incredible (Naughty Dog does so good with audio options, it's really wonderful), etc. The environments are varied and interesting and the slightly more open design compared to TLoU really makes everything feel more natural. Yes, there's still a lot of filing cabinets blocking a lot of stairwells, but it just... feels better. When you get to the "open" area, I was concerned we were hearing into Uncharted 4 territory, with its boring ass, largely empty (in terms of both actual content and interesting gameplay) space... but that didn't happen here. They've also gotten a lot better at not telling what's going to be a combat area. Sometimes things you think will be one are not, other times it's the opposite, and I appreciated that.

 

The main characters are all well acted and directed, and I enjoyed the time spent on all of them. More specifics to come in the spoiler section, but I think most of the shots Naughty Dog took here worked well.

 

The gameplay is... odd. When it pops, it pops. But much like Uncharted 4 or Bioshock Infinite there are only a few "arenas" and encounters that really take advantage of the skills and weapons on offer. On Hard, human enemies without dogs are complete morons. Take one out near cover and every other enemy in the zone close enough to see the body will blindly approach cover and wander into your fatal embrace. Inch up to the next patch of cover close to the next patch of enemies... rinse, repeat, and you're done. Even if you wander into the sight line of an enemy, if you go prone and scoot a little bit, they'll lose track of you quickly. If enemies don't see the bodies of their friends, they remain blissfully ignorant as they patrol, not realizing that 9 of their buddies that they saw on patrol minutes ago are now gone.

 

With the infected, it's a different song on the same album. Any single enemy type is easy to take out, even ones that come up later. When you get a combo of enemy types it's much more interesting; this doesn't happen nearly enough.

 

And as I said before... you are an absolute TANK in this game, even on Hard. The dodge button is too useful. You can dodge just about any melee attack, including from clickers, who feel neutered here compared to the original. Even if you happen to get spotted by several enemies with guns you'll be fine unless you move towards them, their aim is comically bad if you run away.

 

Because a stealthy approach is by far the most effective way to approach encounters, it means that I was never strapped for ammo, resources, or health. Anything on the upgrade trees unrelated to stealth was almost entirely unused for the entire game. Why bother with a rate of fire upgrade on my handgun when a shot to the head or a knife in the back is a one hit KO for most of the enemies in the game? Why do I need a stability upgrade when most of the time enemies aren't aware of where I am and I can aim at them leisurely? Why would I bother boosting my crafting speed when never once in a 20+ hour game did I need to craft under duress? I often found myself not bothering to upgrade myself at all until I had enough pills to get to the bottom of a tree. Most of it just doesn't matter.

 

In the few scenarios with multiple infected types, or humans with dogs... the stealth really shines and you have to move around, be aware of your environment, and actually think about whether or not you should take people out or move to the exit. outside of that, it's in your best interest to kill everything silently, because it's not difficult and it lets you find story collectibles and loot uninterrupted.

 

Also I'll say that I feel the game does a generally good job of representing LGBTQ people, which I appreciated a great deal.

 

Writing this up, I imagine I feel similarly to how reviewers must have while writing under embargo in that I've said a lot but haven't really talked about THE GAME, so... spoiler time. Inside the tag I'm going to talk about everything openly. Don't read it if you don't want to be spoiled.

 

I'll say again... the whole game will be spoiled inside the tag. Open with caution.

 

Spoiler

This will be rambling and in no particular order.

 

Ultimately, I think the game's only real failure is the fact that the gameplay and the narrative feel like they were worked on by different teams. The overall experience is still super compelling, but I felt like I was playing a stealth game in between cutscenes from a movie about the cycle of violence and nobody tried all that hard to reconcile the two halves.

 

The whole game is based on Joel's actions at the end of TLoU, where one out of the many people he killed ended up having a connection to someone who wanted revenge. Abby's dad was someone you didn't have the option of sparing in TLoU. In TLoU2, we see how that affected Abby, how Ellie realizing what Joel did affected her, how Joel having to cop to it affected him and his relationship with Ellie.

 

But in TLoU2... we're absolved of any of the actions we take as we play the game. From a design perspective, we're encouraged to take out as many people as we can. We'll ignore killing infected and focus solely on sections where it's you vs. other humans. Killing everyone is optimal and there's no downside for doing so. It gives you more goodies, it makes looking for supplies, manuals, and flavor collectibles easier.

 

The best illustration of this is when you're on Seraphite Island with Yara, before it's clear that the battle about to take place might take everyone out. Yara says nothing as you choke and kill dozens of them. No encouragement to sneak around, no admonishing you for taking them out, just... nothing. Lev is the priority, but this is the exact same perspective that drove Joel to kill Abby's dad and it's not even acknowledged. Abby is obviously incredibly well respected within the WLF, she's recognized on sight by almost all of them. Yet there's no regret shown as you kill them. No discussion about getting around them. Nothing.

 

To me this really kneecaps anything the game is trying to try to say about the cycle of violence and trauma. Look at what Joel did! Look at the consequences! Now ignore that any of the mooks you're choking out could also have sons/daughters/fathers/mothers/lovers who want revenge, there could be trading cards or state quarters to collect behind the strangle fodder.

 

I think the game also handles the Seraphites and the Rattlers clumsily. You spend a lot of the first half of the game taking out WLF members, only to get to know them better. I thought that the perspective shift worked, and I appreciated that like the Jackson crew, they're made up of people trying to keep their shit together and who had to do some bad things to get there. Abby's time with Lev shows that she finds at least some part of their philosophy appealing... then you interact with them and they're crippling people with hammers, openly anti trans... there's no nuance outside of the flavor collectibles. The Rattlers are even more shallow, they're openly crucifying people and keeping infected around for sport. Again, for a game that wants to examine the cycle of violence there's a lot of effort put into making sure that you feel okay killing the people you kill for most of the game.

 

Aside from that... I liked the Abby portions of the game. I thought they worked well and did what I assume Naughty Dog wanted them to, with the above caveat in mind. It happened quickly, but I bought into her dedication to Yara and Lev, I bought into the strained relationships she had with her friends contributed to her breaking away from the WLF. I thought her relationships with Owen, Yara, and Lev in particular were very well done and interesting, and that they did a good job of letting you get into the shoes and headspace of the person who ended up killing Joel.

 

On that topic, I wonder how the internet writ large will react to that and to this game spending a decent amount of time damning what Joel did in the first game, since it seems like he's a beloved character. I can't say that he got what "he deserved" given that he was tortured and I greatly dislike whenever that's deployed in fiction, but I think it's fair to say that he deserved to die for what he did. If I think the game does one thing plot wise very well, it's that they lay out very clearly lay out how Joel feels about what he did, how Ellie feels about it, how Abby feels about it, and just sort of lets it lie. I suspect a lot of people will really not care for what Abby did, but if they can't understand it by the end of the game I wouldn't really know what to say.

 

Aside from a few encounters, the combat just isn't that interesting. It's methodically paced, visceral, and there are a few really good encounters, but man some of this shit is lazy. Ellie being able to effortlessly kill clickers is such a weird design choice. The boss fight in the basement hospital is just... blah. Run, turn, fire, run, turn, fire... and you're done in almost no time at all. Same with the shamblers. The stalkers are spooky the first time you see them, in the dark and with lots of corners. Then in Santa Barbara they're standing outside in broad daylight just begging to be put out of their misery with your bow. For every fight like the one where you think Yara and Lev abandoned you, where you're in tight quarters against a few enemy types... there are many more where it's a slow walk to choke or stealth everything to death. And stealth is just too powerful, between the bow and a silenced pistol, at any given time you can fire 10+ silenced shots, it's just too much.

 

And the last fight between Ellie and Abby is as visceral to watch as it is boring to play. The fight against Ellie as Abby was "funny" to me? Not the actual reaction from the characters or the brutality, but you spend so much time controlling Ellie and she's so deadly that Ryu Hyabusa would shit himself... then you fight her and she's just as vulnerable to corner abuse and having a bottle thrown at her as a runner.

 

The game is too long by a couple hours. Most of the encounters and areas in the game feel like they have "a point," but Santa Barbara feels entirely unnecessary. You don't get to know the Rattlers, the combat arenas are some of the least interesting in the game, and despite the enemies having helmets, at that point in the game you're so well armed that it just doesn't matter. I wonder if this was initially supposed to be a larger part of the game? The prisoner / farm / captive infected / crucifixion aspects of Santa Barbara are almost entirely unexplored and whoosh by in minutes.

 

I think that's it, in a nutshell. It took almost as long to write as it did to play the game.  Long story short I think it's a really great ride that has some gameplay and story wrinkles that keep it from being an all timer for me. If the combat was tightened up, if the narrative gelled with it a bit better, and if they removed some of the padding from the endgame, I think it'd be transcendent. As it stands, it's still an essential experience for anyone who wants to see what happens after the first game, or who likes stealth / action trillers with a sprinkling of horror.

[Greatoneshere]

22 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

Because a stealthy approach is by far the most effective way to approach encounters, it means that I was never strapped for ammo, resources, or health. Anything on the upgrade trees unrelated to stealth was almost entirely unused for the entire game. Why bother with a rate of fire upgrade on my handgun when a shot to the head or a knife in the back is a one hit KO for most of the enemies in the game? Why do I need a stability upgrade when most of the time enemies aren't aware of where I am and I can aim at them leisurely? Why would I bother boosting my crafting speed when never once in a 20+ hour game did I need to craft under duress? I often found myself not bothering to upgrade myself at all until I had enough pills to get to the bottom of a tree. Most of it just doesn't matter.

 

Great review - I didn't read the spoiler tag as I'm not done the game yet but I read the rest. I agree with all your points, though it's a video game so I'm more accepting of some of the limitations inherent to the game's design. However, on this point with the upgrades, I think that's there to accomodate different playstyles. I also play mostly stealth so your descriptions of a stealth play through are exactly like my own, but like MGS5 or Death Stranding, there's a ton not relevant to the way I play that's there if I want to (or for others). Some people like gunning their way through, and for them those upgrades would be more relevant than stealth ones. I think that's why those options are there.  

[Kal-El814]

5 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

Great review - I didn't read the spoiler tag as I'm not done the game yet but I read the rest. I agree with all your points, though it's a video game so I'm more accepting of some of the limitations inherent to the game's design. However, on this point with the upgrades, I think that's there to accomodate different playstyles. I also play mostly stealth so your descriptions of a stealth play through are exactly like my own, but like MGS5 or Death Stranding, there's a ton not relevant to the way I play that's there if I want to (or for others). Some people like gunning their way through, and for them those upgrades would be more relevant than stealth ones. I think that's why those options are there.  

Yeah that's completely fair. I suspect that if I got into firefights more often, I'd need more ammo, or a bigger mag for my handgun, or to reload my revolver more quickly. Other than when the game forces you to do so with certain fights, I don;'t think I ever needed to reload under duress, either. I know you can get really granular with the difficulty sliders, I wonder if there's a setting that would allow for the game to be more like Uncharted, where firefights are more prevalent. There are fewer enemies in this game than there are in that series, so... I wonder how it balances out.

 

Unrelated to anything I posted... it's still funny to me that you still don't fire from your guns in Naughty Dog games, you fire from the camera. It's not as obvious as it can be in Uncharted, and they finally let enemies shoot at you when you do this... but you're still not firing from your gun!