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PlayStation 5 OT - Play Has No Limits, update: financial report indicates no major first-party/exclusive PS5 releases prior to end of March 2025, PS5 in "latter half" of console cycle

Commissar SFLUFAN

By Commissar SFLUFAN
in The Spawn Point

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crispy4000

crispy4000

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46 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:


I know all this, and I still wouldn’t call it “unprecedented” for gaming. 

 

What is being advocated for with these drives is "unprecedented" for gaming at current.  There isn't a PC game with SSDs as a minimum requirement yet.  Not even Star Citizen.  Further improvements to IO simply expand on what a SSD-required future could mean.
 

38 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Crispy has been drinking the Epic and Sony Kool-aid for a while.

 

I side with the facts here.  We know the IO unit and controller within the PS5 is currently an improvement over PC NVMe drive standards.  Otherwise, there would be no need to require a faster drive than what they're shipping with to ensure compatibility.  Epic's corroborated what was already known.

What's your actual argument against this?  You just drop in to say 'nuh uh' and 'lies.'

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Spork3245

Spork3245

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44 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

What is being advocated for with these drives is "unprecedented" for gaming at current.  There isn't a PC game with SSDs as a minimum requirement yet.  Not even Star Citizen.  Further improvements to IO simply expand on what a SSD-required future could mean.

 

 

But SSDs and the tech associated are not unprecedented, nor should there be any fears over it, as per what I was responding to. SSDs have been around for a long time, their reliability has been known for a long time, consoles using custom bits is nothing new. What I was replying to insinuated that there was going to be issues due to it being “unprecedented”, it wasn’t referencing whether or not it was better than what’s currently available. If you want to argue points that were never made for the sole sake of arguing, though, have at it.

 

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chakoo

chakoo

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Consoles tend to rely on old tech and haven't really been cutting edge for a while. PS5 isn't pulling anything new out of thin air that wasn't already somewhat around in the PC space for a while. It's just putting it together in a cost effective bundle that will allow devs to target exploiting every inch of it and not just 60% for the sake of compatibility and OS overhead. 

 

As for other shit said, All system launches come in hot. Even the fucking DS was that way. Covid had some affect in launch production in terms of resource/part prep but not unit manufacturing as that tends to kick in later. Covid did affect software the most and we're seeing that impact as devs learn to adjust. 

 

 

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Duderino

Duderino

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The PS5’s 12-channel SSD is an uncommon configuration, but from a hardware perspective alone it is not new tech.

 

There is however no PC configuration you can buy on the market today that will standardize the use of Kraken decompression across all tittles, let alone offload that work from the CPU.

 

I'd say that qualifies as unprecedented.  The difference just doesn't initially register for the hardware spec junkies out there.

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crispy4000

crispy4000

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1 hour ago, Spork3245 said:

 

But SSDs and the tech associated are not unprecedented, nor should there be any fears over it, as per what I was responding to. SSDs have been around for a long time, their reliability has been known for a long time, consoles using custom bits is nothing new. What I was replying to insinuated that there was going to be issues due to it being “unprecedented”, it wasn’t referencing whether or not it was better than what’s currently available. If you want to argue points that were never made for the sole sake of arguing, though, have at it.

 


Sure, no beef if you were referring to hardware issues.  Far more likely there’d be snags with what they’re trying with the GPU.  But even then, it’s impossible to predict what could go wrong, or even how likely it is to.
 

RRoD wasn’t a predictable outcome for the 360.  But I doubt we’ll ever see anything quite that bad again.

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crispy4000

crispy4000

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10 minutes ago, Duderino said:

The PS5’s 12-channel SSD is an uncommon configuration, but from a hardware perspective alone it is not new tech.


Curious to know what you’re referring to here.  Where else is it used?  I don’t doubt, but am interested.

 

Edit: Found one here for data centers.

 

https://hothardware.com/reviews/intel-ssd-dc-p4600-enterprise-pcie-nvme-review

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TwinIon

TwinIon

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1 hour ago, chakoo said:

PS5 isn't pulling anything new out of thin air that wasn't already somewhat around in the PC space for a while. It's just putting it together in a cost effective bundle that will allow devs to target exploiting every inch of it and not just 60% for the sake of compatibility and OS overhead. 

Exactly. Arguing about exactly how "unprecedented" the PS5 SSD is compared to existing PC storage is beside the point.

 

Here we have a technology that has existed for some time that hasn't really been put to much use in games because it was never part of the lowest common denominator. This generation of consoles will change that. 

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Duderino

Duderino

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2 hours ago, TwinIon said:

Exactly. Arguing about exactly how "unprecedented" the PS5 SSD is compared to existing PC storage is beside the point.

 

Here we have a technology that has existed for some time that hasn't really been put to much use in games because it was never part of the lowest common denominator. This generation of consoles will change that. 

Agree that the SSD alone is not unprecedented, but the integration of Kraken is.  That decompression edge will only be the lowest common denominator on the PS5.  

 

I imagine though many Series X and PC developers will license Kraken from RAD Tools as well.  It just won't be the baseline on those platforms.

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TwinIon

TwinIon

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5 hours ago, Duderino said:

Agree that the SSD alone is not unprecedented, but the integration of Kraken is.  That decompression edge will only be the lowest common denominator on the PS5.  

 

I imagine though many Series X and PC developers will license Kraken from RAD Tools as well.  It just won't be the baseline on those platforms.

MS has their own decompression architecture and hardware in the Series X, and I believe they the framework would be available on the PC. Given how much CPU overhead most PCs have, I don't suspect that decompression would be a huge roadblock.

 

I believe the point stands. The SSD itself is a great piece of tech, but it's been underutilized in games because it was only available on PCs. Having fast storage standardized in consoles means that we'll see developers take proper advantage of that speed in ways they haven't bothered to before.

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Duderino

Duderino

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2 hours ago, TwinIon said:

MS has their own decompression architecture and hardware in the Series X, and I believe they the framework would be available on the PC. Given how much CPU overhead most PCs have, I don't suspect that decompression would be a huge roadblock.

 

I believe the point stands. The SSD itself is a great piece of tech, but it's been underutilized in games because it was only available on PCs. Having fast storage standardized in consoles means that we'll see developers take proper advantage of that speed in ways they haven't bothered to before.


To clarify, the Series X by default uses zlib for general compression and the new bcpack for texture compression.  For the PS5 Sony licensed RAD Tool's Kraken for general compression and for textures, the new Ooodle Texture.  Both Series X and PS5 have dedicated decompression hardware blocks, unlike PCs.  The PS5 difference is a faster SSD, more channels/lanes, and Kraken as a standard (which provides much better compression + faster decompression compared to zlib).  Remains to be seen how Oodle Texture and bcPack compare, or how other architecture specifics will contribute here.

 

The SSD speed + compression tech will clearly raise the baseline for games exclusive to PS5.  For 3rd part tittles, I think it's reasonable enough to predict improvements to asset streaming and reduced load times compared to other platforms.

I agree that consoles moving from HDD to SSD is the biggest initial leap forward, but following directly behind that is the leap in compression tech.  The two are related and will result in an even larger impact together.  I don't subscribe to the idea that average SSD speeds today are the peak of what developers can successfully leverage/benefit from, or that compression has only a small role to play.

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Duderino

Duderino

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2 hours ago, Remarkableriots said:

So what you're saying is that the PC filthy peasants will be trying to hold back the PS 5 master race? 

What I’m saying is there is reason to look forward to what the PS5 is bringing to the table here.

 

Some steps forward don't happen simultaneously on every platform and that is ok.

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crispy4000

crispy4000

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30 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

I don't think he lied. My statement is just referring to it won't take long for PC architecture to catch up and surpass the PS5.

 

That I can agree with.  And it’s not like that advantage is all encompassing beyond what could be brute forced in most games.  
 

Its will take plenty of extra CPU grunt and RAM though.  Both the consoles challenge PC norms with their hardware decompression methods.

 

I’m also curious if that will have any material impact on game file sizes on consoles vs PC.

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Commissar SFLUFAN

Commissar SFLUFAN

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UK retailer insinuates that PS5 pre-orders will begin this week.

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GAME Guildford has tweeted that customers who have registered their interest in a new PlayStation 5 console should get their credit card ready and “standbye for updates”. They say that a PlayStation 5 announcement is scheduled for tomorrow and that “things are about to kick off this week.”

 

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