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Masters of the Universe: Revelation (Netflix, July 23) - reviews posted


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1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I'm still trying to figure out how MotU is woke.

 

As an outsider, the intolerance that has been embraced by the left in the US -- which is heavily associated with wokeness and cancel culture -- is definitely a negative thing.

:confused: Whut? 

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2 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I'm still trying to figure out how MotU is woke.

 

As an outsider, the intolerance that has been embraced by the left in the US -- which is heavily associated with wokeness and cancel culture -- is definitely a negative thing.

 

Intolerance....of mistreating people?

 

GODDAMN WOKE ASSHOLES RUINING EVERYTHING

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19 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I'm still trying to figure out how MotU is woke.

 

As an outsider, the intolerance that has been embraced by the left in the US -- which is heavily associated with wokeness and cancel culture -- is definitely a negative thing.

 

This is a bad take. Cancel culture isn’t even a real thing, and “wokeness” has been completely co-opted by shit heels who use it to tell on themselves.

 

There’s a small, SMALL subset of strong leftists who are vocal on twitter and social media who treat aspects of their identity as fandom and behave shittily to people who do not conform with that, but that is not the same thing.

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On 7/30/2021 at 1:17 PM, Kal-El814 said:

 

This is a bad take. Cancel culture isn’t even a real thing, and “wokeness” has been completely co-opted by shit heels who use it to tell on themselves.

 

There’s a small, SMALL subset of strong leftists who are vocal on twitter and social media who treat aspects of their identity as fandom and behave shittily to people who do not conform with that, but that is not the same thing.

Cancel culture (or call-out culture) is a real thing.

The "woke" culture, at least what is being discussed in the media (both traditional and social), is largely dominated by those "strong leftists".  We probably disagree on how large that group is.

 

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35 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Cancel culture (or call-out culture) is a real thing.

The "woke" culture, at least what is being discussed in the media (both traditional and social), is largely dominated by those "strong leftists".  We probably disagree on how large that group is.

 

Cancel culture is fake. If you’re going to say it’s just “callout culture” then yeah, sure, people get called out for everything all the time, but that’s not the same thing, and it’s absolutely not what right wing hacks mean when they decry cancel culture.

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16 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

Cancel culture is fake. If you’re going to say it’s just “fallout culture” then yeah, sure, people get called out for everything all the time, but that’s not the same thing, and it’s absolutely not what right wing hacks mean when they decry cancel culture.

"Call-out culture" are literally the fourth and fifth words in the wikipedia entry on cancel culture.  Whether you agree with Tucker Carlson's portrayal of cancel culture (I generally disagree with most things he says), doesn't change the existence of ostracism, and the successful attempts to have actors/musicians/etc. removed from projects after having said controversial things is very real.

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16 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

"Call-out culture" are literally the fourth and fifth words in the wikipedia entry on cancel culture.  Whether you agree with Tucker Carlson's portrayal of cancel culture (I generally disagree with most things he says), doesn't change the existence of ostracism, and the successful attempts to have actors/musicians/etc. removed from projects after having said controversial things is very real.

 

Consequence culture is not cancel culture, no matter what Tucker and right wing boobs insist. 

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32 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Calling it consequence culture rather than cancel culture doesn't nullify it's existence.

 

As right wing hacks define it, it absolutely does. There’s nobody out there getting “canceled” for no reason, which is the entirety of the panic. “Anyone can get you for saying anything!” No, that doesn’t happen.

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Just now, Kal-El814 said:

 

As right wing hacks define it, it absolutely does. There’s nobody out there getting “canceled” for no reason, which is the entirety of the panic. “Anyone can get you for saying anything!” No, that doesn’t happen.

I have never heard anyone define it that way.

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1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I have never heard anyone define it that way.

 

This is what the entire panic is about, that people, particularly white people, need to watch what they’re saying lest the woke mob cancel them. It’s nonsense.

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2 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

This is what the entire panic is about, that people, particularly white people, need to watch what they’re saying lest the woke mob cancel them. It’s nonsense.

That's not the concern I have heard expressed.

“I do get a sense sometimes now among certain young people, and this is accelerated by social media, there is this sense sometimes of: ‘The way of me making change is to be as judgmental as possible about other people, and that’s enough.

“Like, if I tweet or hashtag about how you didn’t do something right or used the wrong verb, then I can sit back and feel pretty good about myself, cause, ‘Man, you see how woke I was, I called you out.’

“That’s not activism. That’s not bringing about change, If all you’re doing is casting stones, you’re probably not going to get that far. That’s easy to do.”

-- Former US President Barrak Obama

A Letter on Justice and Open Debate

Quote

Our cultural institutions are facing a moment of trial. Powerful protests for racial and social justice are leading to overdue demands for police reform, along with wider calls for greater equality and inclusion across our society, not least in higher education, journalism, philanthropy, and the arts. But this needed reckoning has also intensified a new set of moral attitudes and political commitments that tend to weaken our norms of open debate and toleration of differences in favor of ideological conformity. As we applaud the first development, we also raise our voices against the second. The forces of illiberalism are gaining strength throughout the world and have a powerful ally in Donald Trump, who represents a real threat to democracy. But resistance must not be allowed to harden into its own brand of dogma or coercion—which right-wing demagogues are already exploiting. The democratic inclusion we want can be achieved only if we speak out against the intolerant climate that has set in on all sides.

The free exchange of information and ideas, the lifeblood of a liberal society, is daily becoming more constricted. While we have come to expect this on the radical right, censoriousness is also spreading more widely in our culture: an intolerance of opposing views, a vogue for public shaming and ostracism, and the tendency to dissolve complex policy issues in a blinding moral certainty. We uphold the value of robust and even caustic counter-speech from all quarters. But it is now all too common to hear calls for swift and severe retribution in response to perceived transgressions of speech and thought. More troubling still, institutional leaders, in a spirit of panicked damage control, are delivering hasty and disproportionate punishments instead of considered reforms. Editors are fired for running controversial pieces; books are withdrawn for alleged inauthenticity; journalists are barred from writing on certain topics; professors are investigated for quoting works of literature in class; a researcher is fired for circulating a peer-reviewed academic study; and the heads of organizations are ousted for what are sometimes just clumsy mistakes. Whatever the arguments around each particular incident, the result has been to steadily narrow the boundaries of what can be said without the threat of reprisal. We are already paying the price in greater risk aversion among writers, artists, and journalists who fear for their livelihoods if they depart from the consensus, or even lack sufficient zeal in agreement.

This stifling atmosphere will ultimately harm the most vital causes of our time. The restriction of debate, whether by a repressive government or an intolerant society, invariably hurts those who lack power and makes everyone less capable of democratic participation. The way to defeat bad ideas is by exposure, argument, and persuasion, not by trying to silence or wish them away. We refuse any false choice between justice and freedom, which cannot exist without each other. As writers we need a culture that leaves us room for experimentation, risk taking, and even mistakes. We need to preserve the possibility of good-faith disagreement without dire professional consequences. If we won’t defend the very thing on which our work depends, we shouldn’t expect the public or the state to defend it for us.

Elliot Ackerman
Saladin Ambar, Rutgers University
Martin Amis
Anne Applebaum
Marie Arana, author
Margaret Atwood
John Banville
Mia Bay, historian
Louis Begley, writer
Roger Berkowitz, Bard College
Paul Berman, writer
Sheri Berman, Barnard College
Reginald Dwayne Betts, poet
Neil Blair, agent
David W. Blight, Yale University
Jennifer Finney Boylan, author
David Bromwich
David Brooks, columnist
Ian Buruma, Bard College
Lea Carpenter
Noam Chomsky, MIT (emeritus)
Nicholas A. Christakis, Yale University
Roger Cohen, writer
Ambassador Frances D. Cook, ret.
Drucilla Cornell, Founder, uBuntu Project
Kamel Daoud
Meghan Daum, writer
Gerald Early, Washington University-St. Louis
Jeffrey Eugenides, writer
Dexter Filkins
Federico Finchelstein, The New School
Caitlin Flanagan
Richard T. Ford, Stanford Law School
Kmele Foster
David Frum, journalist
Francis Fukuyama, Stanford University
Atul Gawande, Harvard University
Todd Gitlin, Columbia University
Kim Ghattas
Malcolm Gladwell
Michelle Goldberg, columnist
Rebecca Goldstein, writer
Anthony Grafton, Princeton University
David Greenberg, Rutgers University
Linda Greenhouse
Rinne B. Groff, playwright
Sarah Haider, activist
Jonathan Haidt, NYU-Stern
Roya Hakakian, writer
Shadi Hamid, Brookings Institution
Jeet Heer, The Nation
Katie Herzog, podcast host
Susannah Heschel, Dartmouth College
Adam Hochschild, author
Arlie Russell Hochschild, author
Eva Hoffman, writer
Coleman Hughes, writer/Manhattan Institute
Hussein Ibish, Arab Gulf States Institute
Michael Ignatieff
Zaid Jilani, journalist
Bill T. Jones, New York Live Arts
Wendy Kaminer, writer
Matthew Karp, Princeton University
Garry Kasparov, Renew Democracy Initiative
Daniel Kehlmann, writer
Randall Kennedy
Khaled Khalifa, writer
Parag Khanna, author
Laura Kipnis, Northwestern University
Frances Kissling, Center for Health, Ethics, Social Policy
Enrique Krauze, historian
Anthony Kronman, Yale University
Joy Ladin, Yeshiva University
Nicholas Lemann, Columbia University
Mark Lilla, Columbia University
Susie Linfield, New York University
Damon Linker, writer
Dahlia Lithwick, Slate
Steven Lukes, New York University
John R. MacArthur, publisher, writer
Susan Madrak, writer
Phoebe Maltz Bovy, writer
Greil Marcus
Wynton Marsalis, Jazz at Lincoln Center
Kati Marton, author
Debra Mashek, scholar
Deirdre McCloskey, University of Illinois at Chicago
John McWhorter, Columbia University
Uday Mehta, City University of New York
Andrew Moravcsik, Princeton University
Yascha Mounk, Persuasion
Samuel Moyn, Yale University
Meera Nanda, writer and teacher
Cary Nelson, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Olivia Nuzzi, New York Magazine
Mark Oppenheimer, Yale University
Dael Orlandersmith, writer/performer
George Packer
Nell Irvin Painter, Princeton University (emerita)
Greg Pardlo, Rutgers University – Camden
Orlando Patterson, Harvard University
Steven Pinker, Harvard University
Letty Cottin Pogrebin
Katha Pollitt, writer
Claire Bond Potter, The New School
Taufiq Rahim
Zia Haider Rahman, writer
Jennifer Ratner-Rosenhagen, University of Wisconsin
Jonathan Rauch, Brookings Institution/The Atlantic
Neil Roberts, political theorist
Melvin Rogers, Brown University
Kat Rosenfield, writer
Loretta J. Ross, Smith College
J.K. Rowling
Salman Rushdie, New York University
Karim Sadjadpour, Carnegie Endowment
Daryl Michael Scott, Howard University
Diana Senechal, teacher and writer
Jennifer Senior, columnist
Judith Shulevitz, writer
Jesse Singal, journalist
Anne-Marie Slaughter
Andrew Solomon, writer
Deborah Solomon, critic and biographer
Allison Stanger, Middlebury College
Paul Starr, American Prospect/Princeton University
Wendell Steavenson, writer
Gloria Steinem, writer and activist
Nadine Strossen, New York Law School
Ronald S. Sullivan Jr., Harvard Law School
Kian Tajbakhsh, Columbia University
Zephyr Teachout, Fordham University
Cynthia Tucker, University of South Alabama
Adaner Usmani, Harvard University
Chloe Valdary
Helen Vendler, Harvard University
Judy B. Walzer
Michael Walzer
Eric K. Washington, historian
Caroline Weber, historian
Randi Weingarten, American Federation of Teachers
Bari Weiss
Cornel West
Sean Wilentz, Princeton University
Garry Wills
Thomas Chatterton Williams, writer
Robert F. Worth, journalist and author
Molly Worthen, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
Matthew Yglesias
Emily Yoffe, journalist
Cathy Young, journalist
Fareed Zakaria

 

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6 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

That's not the concern I have heard expressed.

“I do get a sense sometimes now among certain young people, and this is accelerated by social media, there is this sense sometimes of: ‘The way of me making change is to be as judgmental as possible about other people, and that’s enough.

“Like, if I tweet or hashtag about how you didn’t do something right or used the wrong verb, then I can sit back and feel pretty good about myself, cause, ‘Man, you see how woke I was, I called you out.’

“That’s not activism. That’s not bringing about change, If all you’re doing is casting stones, you’re probably not going to get that far. That’s easy to do.”

-- Former US President Barrak Obama

A Letter on Justice and Open Debate

 

 

Given that until now we weren't even casting stones, I'll take the change in the Overton window. This is just the first step, but at least we're getting somewhere. Acceptance of all the toxicity for centuries was worse, lest we forget. So, in that sense, Obama has no fucking idea what he's talking about, given he's a faux liberal maintain the status quo technocrat (and I like him, more or less). 

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11 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Given that until now we weren't even casting stones, I'll take the change in the Overton window. This is just the first step, but at least we're getting somewhere. Acceptance of all the toxicity for centuries was worse, lest we forget. So, in that sense, Obama has no fucking idea what he's talking about, given he's a faux liberal maintain the status quo technocrat (and I like him, more or less). 

Liberalism is the key to Western Democracies.  While they are not perfect, they are the best the world has ever seen in terms of rights, equality, etc.

Accepting toxicity is not what I was suggesting.  Rejecting toxicity, and accepting those with different opinions to ourselves is key, IMO, to our continued progress as a society.

[I'm using liberal in the internationally accepted use of the term, not the commonly used version in the US that seems to be born out of McCarthyism.]

 

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33 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Liberalism is the key to Western Democracies.  While they are not perfect, they are the best the world has ever seen in terms of rights, equality, etc.

Accepting toxicity is not what I was suggesting.  Rejecting toxicity, and accepting those with different opinions to ourselves is key, IMO, to our continued progress as a society.

[I'm using liberal in the internationally accepted use of the term, not the commonly used version in the US that seems to be born out of McCarthyism.]

 

 

Right, and a lot of "cancel" culture or "woke" culture is merely calling out and rejecting a lot of the toxicity we just used to accept and say nothing about. We're bringing the standard of moral behavior up higher where it should be and in due course there's been some expected over-correcting but the general trend is a good one.

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4 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Right, and a lot of "cancel" culture or "woke" culture is merely calling out and rejecting a lot of the toxicity we just used to accept and say nothing about. We're bringing the standard of moral behavior up higher where it should be and in due course there's been some expected over-correcting but the general trend is a good one.

It is doing significantly more than that -- it is also rejecting non-toxic speech, very often in a toxic way.

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1 minute ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

It is doing significantly more than that -- it is also rejecting non-toxic speech, very often in a toxic way.

 

No. This is the panic.

 

Again I do not doubt this happens on a micro level to some extent, as I wrote before.

 

But there is no swath of people getting “canceled” for non toxic speech, and basically nobody has been “canceled” for actual toxic speech.

 

This just is not a thing.

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1 minute ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

No. This is the panic.

 

Again I do not doubt this happens on a micro level to some extent, as I wrote before.

 

But there is no swath of people getting “canceled” for non toxic speech, and basically nobody has been “canceled” for actual toxic speech.

 

This just is not a thing.

 

idk the right is banning books and things you can discuss in classrooms, trying to get teachers fired, had their president trying to suppress free speech in private sports leagues, and burned all their nike shoes. Seems like cancel culture is real!

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1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

It is doing significantly more than that -- it is also rejecting non-toxic speech, very often in a toxic way.

 

Do you have an example to point to? I haven't really run into non-justified toxic attacks on non toxic-speech in any macro way. It happens between people arguing on the Internet but that's always been the case, nothing new there. This is just the panic about "cancel" culture as I understand it.

 

1 hour ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

No. This is the panic.

 

Again I do not doubt this happens on a micro level to some extent, as I wrote before.

 

But there is no swath of people getting “canceled” for non toxic speech, and basically nobody has been “canceled” for actual toxic speech.

 

This just is not a thing.

 

This.

 

And whatever toxicity the left "accidentally" creates, the right is actively trying to hurt and kill anyone who disagrees with them, so let's not lose the forest for the trees.

 

The left owes nothing to humanity compared to what the right owes humanity.

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1 hour ago, stepee said:

 

idk the right is banning books and things you can discuss in classrooms, trying to get teachers fired, had their president trying to suppress free speech in private sports leagues, and burned all their nike shoes. Seems like cancel culture is real!

It's almost if the extreme right and extreme left share some of the same pseudo-facist tendencies.

39 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

The left owes nothing to humanity compared to what the right owes humanity.

The Rise of Righteous Online Bullies | Opinion (newsweek.com)

I can't speak to the veracity of her claims, but I will assume that Newsweek is a reputable media source that verifies its articles.

 

The extreme right and the extreme left are both toxic in their own ways.  Justifying toxic behaviour by pointing at other's toxic behaviours is lunacy.  

39 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

The left owes nothing to humanity compared to what the right owes humanity.

Confused Hanna Barbera GIF by Warner Archive

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17 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

It's almost if the extreme right and extreme left share some of the same pseudo-facist tendencies.

 

There is a huge difference between things actually happening and invented panic though.

 

That’s the problem, there isn’t some extreme left that exists in any large capacity that is actually causing any issues here. I wish there was! But that does not exist in any noteworthy way beyond the panic itself, but it is used to justify the actual actions being done by the right. Like inventing the crt panic in order to actually (action being taken) put in laws against diversity, remove books from classrooms, and generally as an inroads towards only promoting the great white race.

 

They say there is a problem so that they can put a “solution” into place, when that solution is often the problem they said existed.

 

Its not whataboutism when you are just pointing out that the right actually does the things they make up about the imaginary radical left (aka 5 dudes on twitter).

 

Also that is not the extreme right, that is the right. It is politically their constant platform, it’s not some fringe people that are a problem on the right, the entire cult of the right is the problem.

 

The size difference of the issues we have with the right in America vs the extreme left is so vast that spending any time at all on the issues with the extreme left and cancel culture or whatever is like if you fell down and skinned your knee and then got shot in the head but you kept going on about how your knee hurts.

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8 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Hmmm....  I just remember reading the magazines sitting in the Doctor's/Dentist/etc. offices growing up.

 

It’s because they were sold like ten years ago so it’s a pretty recent thing it got batty.

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1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

The Rise of Righteous Online Bullies | Opinion (newsweek.com)

 

I can't speak to the veracity of her claims, but I will assume that Newsweek is a reputable media source that verifies its articles.

 

The extreme right and the extreme left are both toxic in their own ways.  Justifying toxic behaviour by pointing at other's toxic behaviours is lunacy.  

Confused Hanna Barbera GIF by Warner Archive

 

Unfortunately Newsweek is pretty sketchy and they lean pretty biased in their reporting. But it's something. And I'm not justifying anyone's toxic behavior, I'm just not sure what "cancel" culture doing is toxic. I think calling bad things out make sense, even if they seem not so bad to other people. 

 

And I'd be careful "both side'ing" this issue, the alt-right has been far more harmful in their policies and beliefs than the left, so to focus on culture war stuff like cancel culture compared to their policies on Covid and climate change and race and women seems short sighted. That's what I mean - this is a sliding scale and the right is so bad, on so many issues, to a harmful and detrimental societal effect that focusing on the left is baffling to me by comparison (even if there is something there).

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On 8/2/2021 at 11:27 AM, AbsolutSurgen said:

"Call-out culture" are literally the fourth and fifth words in the wikipedia entry on cancel culture.  Whether you agree with Tucker Carlson's portrayal of cancel culture (I generally disagree with most things he says), doesn't change the existence of ostracism, and the successful attempts to have actors/musicians/etc. removed from projects after having said controversial things is very real.


man, I remember reading about how those devious cancel culture leftist went after Jane Fonda in 1972. Damn liberals. 
 

and before that they went after Dalton Trumbo and others writers in Hollywood and had them all Black listed in 1947 until 1960. 

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3 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

I see no reason why not?  If anything, we might see an enhanced version of Panthor.


That’s a good point. Panthor was already like Battle Cat in his default form. He/she should be suped up like Skeletor now

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  • 3 weeks later...

Finally watched this.  Nothing seemed woke to me.

 

Also, it kinda was the definition of mediocre.

 

It didn't really scratch the nostalgia itch.  The original cartoon was a "toy cartoon" -- very formulaic, characters were based on toys (as opposed to the opposite) and was targeted at young children.

This show had VERY mediocre writing, seemed to want to stamp on nostalgia and was way too violent for young children....  I admit I only watched a few seasons of He-Man: MotU, but I felt like I was totally left behind by this series.  And my kids did too.

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