~*Official #COVID-19 Thread of Doom*~ Revenge of Omicron Prime

[Joe]

8 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Absolutely nonsense. They have the advantage of incumbency, first to market, and already producing goods. They've been gifted billions from the government for manufacturing and distribution and supply chains which is also a huge advantage investors won't get elsewhere. And allegedly they're making the vaccines at cost, or not for profit, "for the duration of the pandemic", but it sounds like they get to keep the assets used for manufacture. And if investors pull money do you really think the USG would not step in to make sure production isn't disrupted? C'mon man.

 

Pharma FUD

The government would need to promise that money first. Again, could happen, but won’t happen.

 

Anyway, India has a vaccine right now thanks to Bharat / Ocugen.

[CitizenVectron]

Then don't open the patents completely. Legislate much lower royalty payments for production and distribution in third world nations.

[Joe]

14 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

Then don't open the patents completely. Legislate much lower royalty payments for production and distribution in third world nations.

Sounds more doable! But again, if the patent waiver is being rejected by the EU, what chance does it have of being passed here?

[Kal-El814]

Find whatever motherfuckers think people wont innovate if not motivated by money, when said innovation is helping to stop a pandemic, and walk them into the sea at gunpoint.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

21 minutes ago, Joe said:

The government would need to promise that money first. Again, could happen, but won’t happen.

 

Anyway, India has a vaccine right now thanks to Bharat / Ocugen.

It won't happen because of the international IP regime (TRIPS) that kills thousands due to lack of access to lifesaving medication on everyday diseases, let alone an international pandemic.

 

As for India, they are just an example of a country that has a vast knowledge of pharmaceutical manufacturing and often produces inexpensive generics. They're just an example of a country that could conceivably manufacture a generic vaccine. There is still the damn near entirety of Africa and much of south and central asia, and some Latin America countries, that the Economist estimates won't have widespread vaccination until 2023

[Kal-El814]

3 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

It won't happen because of the international IP regime (TRIPS) that kills thousands due to lack of access to lifesaving medication on everyday diseases, let alone an international pandemic.

 

As for India, they are just an example of a country that has a vast knowledge of pharmaceutical manufacturing and often produces inexpensive generics. They're just an example of a country that could conceivably manufacture a generic vaccine. There is still the damn near entirety of Africa and much of south and central asia, and some Latin America countries, that the Economist estimates won't have widespread vaccination until 2023

Won’t SOMEONE think of the stonks?

 

EDIT - in addition to the extent to which many of these drugs are funded from public money, there’s also an extent to which many of the people working at these places don’t own a piece of the company, their bonus incentives aren’t tied to things like “breakthroughs” because they rarely happen, etc. I’m not opposed to people / companies making money off this stuff (it’s my industry, by and large  ), but anyone who goes, “our IP tho,” when considering how quickly we can make the only preventative measure for a pandemic should be shown the door, first from their company, and then potentially from this mortal coil.

[Joe]

3 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

It won't happen because of the international IP regime (TRIPS) that kills thousands due to lack of access to lifesaving medication on everyday diseases, let alone an international pandemic.

 

As for India, they are just an example of a country that has a vast knowledge of pharmaceutical manufacturing and often produces inexpensive generics. They're just an example of a country that could conceivably manufacture a generic vaccine. There is still the damn near entirety of Africa and much of south and central asia, and some Latin America countries, that the Economist estimates won't have widespread vaccination until 2023

With the amount of vaccines in the pipeline, that estimate is absurdly conservative.

[Jason]

5 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

Won’t SOMEONE think of the tendies?

 

[Joe]

To be clear, this isn't me saying this ought not to happen, but rather that it won't happen.

[Spork3245]

1 hour ago, Joe said:

To be clear, this isn't me saying this ought not to happen, but rather that it won't happen.

Shut up and buy some more stock. TENDIES FOR ALL

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Joe said:

To be clear, this isn't me saying this ought not to happen, but rather that it won't happen.

I don’t think anybody is under the impression it will happen, and the discussion is about the players working to ensure it doesn’t happen.

[AbsolutSurgen]

 

 

 

 

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

No one has access to the AstraZeneca deal -- however they have been willing to do contract deals with local pharmas to make the vaccine in domestic markets.   Oxford claims that the vaccine will be made in 13 countries (I haven't seen a list) but I have read articles that they are producing the vaccine in Europe, UK and India themselves, and will be produced by other Pharmas in Australia and Thailand (and potentially more).

 

Even if the IP is opened up -- are vaccines something a generic can make without help from the original Pharma?

[Jason]

Do you still risk organ damage from an asymptomatic case? 

[AbsolutSurgen]

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

Do you still risk organ damage from an asymptomatic case? 

No one knows this definitively.  Only studies I have seen are related to damage associated with people who have long-term symptoms.

[CitizenVectron]

14 minutes ago, Jason said:

Do you still risk organ damage from an asymptomatic case? 

 

Not completely known, but there have been reports (anecdotal) of hospitals investigating patients for other things, seeing lung scarring, and then testing for COVID-19 and finding it (without symptoms). So it's possible.

[Spork3245]

I’m very concerned of that 1/5 marker of developing varying mental illnesses within 90-days of infection. If a vaccine prevents long-term issues, that would be amazing. Without it, even with the vaccine, l don’t think we can really get back to a true normal.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

3 hours ago, Joe said:

To be clear, this isn't me saying this ought not to happen, but rather that it won't happen.

I'm under no illusions as to what will happen but what should happen.

 

As for the conservative estimates, I don't really think so. With disruptions to supply chains or other manufacturing issues that can come up, and we've already seen some, and the fact that two vaccines just won't really work in the global south due to cold storage issues, I can see 2023 being fairly optimistic 

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 minute ago, Spork3245 said:

I’m very concerned of that 1/5 marker of developing varying mental illnesses within 90-days of infection. If a vaccine prevents long-term issues, that would be amazing. Without it, even with the vaccine, l don’t think we can really get back to a true normal.

True normal is years away.  As long as the virus is transmitting in the developing world (most forecasts have that going through '22 or '23) new variants will pop up.  A lot of researchers suspect that some of the people who are already vaccinated will be susceptible to these new variants.  There is a very real possibility that many people will have to go through multiple rounds of vaccination.

I don't think governments have come to this realization yet -- but I hope they have behind closed doors.  IMHO they need to think about how they can speed up iterations on the current vaccines coming to market -- and about expanding capacity.

[Joe]

8 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

I'm under no illusions as to what will happen but what should happen.

 

As for the conservative estimates, I don't really think so. With disruptions to supply chains or other manufacturing issues that can come up, and we've already seen some, and the fact that two vaccines just won't really work in the global south due to cold storage issues, I can see 2023 being fairly optimistic 

 

 

If we're speaking in terms of strictly hypotheticals, vaccines shouldn't ever be privately funded in the first place. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

2 minutes ago, Joe said:

 

 

If we're speaking in terms of strictly hypotheticals, vaccines shouldn't ever be privately funded in the first place. 

Buddy, that's just the beginning

[AbsolutSurgen]

New variant COVID findings fuel more worries about vaccine resistance

Quote

Today, researchers based at the University of Cambridge reported preliminary findings that raise concerns about how well the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine would protect against B117 carrying the E484K mutation. For their experiments, they did lab studies using serum from people who had received their first dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine to see how antibodies reacted against B117 variants.

Overall, the vaccine is likely to be effective against B117, though its efficacy is somewhat affected. Though they found wide variation among individuals, on average B117 required a twofold increase in serum antibody concentration to neutralize the virus. However, when researchers added the E484K mutation, substantially higher antibody levels—on average, a 10-fold increase—were needed for neutralization.

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

Ruh-Roh

 

 

[finaljedi]

10 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

True normal is years away.  As long as the virus is transmitting in the developing world (most forecasts have that going through '22 or '23) new variants will pop up.  A lot of researchers suspect that some of the people who are already vaccinated will be susceptible to these new variants.  There is a very real possibility that many people will have to go through multiple rounds of vaccination.

I don't think governments have come to this realization yet -- but I hope they have behind closed doors.  IMHO they need to think about how they can speed up iterations on the current vaccines coming to market -- and about expanding capacity.

 

I'm just hoping one of these variants mutates like SARS did and it just kind of peters out.

[AbsolutSurgen]

If referring to Covid-19 as the China virus is racist.

Doesn't that mean that referring to the B.1.351, b.1.1.7 and P.1 variants as the South Africa/UK/Brazil variants (or variants first identified in South Africa/UK/Brazil) racist too?  Asking for a friend.

[Joe]

17 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Ruh-Roh

 

 

 

 

That guy is how I imagine you look like in real life.

[AbsolutSurgen]

2 minutes ago, finaljedi said:

 

I'm just hoping one of these variants mutates like SARS did and it just kind of peters out.

I don't think SARS mutated itself out of existence.  From what I have read, SARS was primarily transmissible while patients were symptomatic -- so it was relatively easy to trace and isolate. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

6 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

If referring to Covid-19 as the China virus is racist.

Doesn't that mean that referring to the B.1.351, b.1.1.7 and P.1 variants as the South Africa/UK/Brazil variants (or variants first identified in South Africa/UK/Brazil) racist too?  Asking for a friend.

No, because of context.

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 minute ago, Joe said:

 

 

That guy is how I imagine you look like in real life.

 

imgur.com

IMGUR.COM

---

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

 

While I do have blue eyes like him (and I am half Irish rather than English), my half-slavic side gives me a much more prominent schnoz (and my beard is cut longer than his). 

[Chris-]

29 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Ruh-Roh

 

 

Defense Production Act that shit *now*

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, Chris- said:

National Defense Act that shit *now*

 

Canadian federal government.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

brb

 

[CitizenVectron]

2 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Ruh-Roh

 

 

 

1. Brian Lilley is like a Tucker Carlson of Canada and deserves no respect.

2. They haven't received firm numbers for the shipments, that is why the column is blank...the article even talks about that. This is like saying "I forgot my wallet at home, let me run and get it and I'll come back to buy gas" and then a headline of "man disappears, no commitment to purchase gas, Shell in potential peril?!"

[Chollowa]

I just learned that the hospital system them my wife works for is vaccinating anyone that volunteers to work 3 shifts at their vaccine super centers. I signed up for 3 of them immediately. It might be worth checking to see if any of the healthcare systems in your area are doing the same. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

seems bad