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People know how bad Covid is and still go out and do whatever. My sister in law is a nurse at a hospital in Houston that had a large Covid patient load. Yesterday she had a party at her house with 20+ people. HRC as president doesn’t fix that flippancy.

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I'd say just pulling numbers out of my ass, HRC would have saved around 60k lives had she been in charge.

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1 hour ago, sblfilms said:

People know how bad Covid is and still go out and do whatever. My sister in law is a nurse at a hospital in Houston that had a large Covid patient load. Yesterday she had a party at her house with 20+ people. HRC as president doesn’t fix that flippancy.

 

1 hour ago, Joe said:

I'd say just pulling numbers out of my ass, HRC would have saved around 60k lives had she been in charge.

 

HRC doesn't fix people like sbl's sister-in-law being flippant, but she also keeps a lid on the initial problem by, say, making sure there's enough PPE for people willing to comply with wearing masks to do so.

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1 minute ago, Jason said:

 

 

HRC doesn't fix people like sbl's sister-in-law being flippant, but she also keeps a lid on the initial problem by, say, making sure there's enough PPE for people willing to comply with wearing masks to do so.

 

She might have forced NY, NJ, and CT to quarantine earlier or she might have at least provided them with better information where they might have that decision themselves. Governors were basically on their own in March. She also would have instituted a federal mask order by now, avoiding many of the current needless deaths.

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9 minutes ago, Joe said:

 

She might have forced NY, NJ, and CT to quarantine earlier or she might have at least provided them with better information where they might have that decision themselves. Governors were basically on their own in March. She also would have instituted a federal mask order by now, avoiding many of the current needless deaths.

 

End of the day, literally any coordination at the federal level instead of turning it into a Hunger Games situation and then intentionally stealing the stuff they made the governors procure on their own gets you a less bad outcome. 

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I actually wonder how Fox & other conservative media would play this with HRC in office. I think they'd instinctively want to say that the HRC administration was botching the response and they were responsible for however many deaths there would be in the US in this scenario. Kind of like how at the very beginning of this Trump was kind of trying to float the idea that Obama had screwed up swine flu and that was actually horrible, but the lamestream media made you forget the whole thing or whatever. But then if you go all-in on that idea, you can't do the "all of this actually a hoax" stuff at the same time. And I wonder if the anti-mask/anti-vaxx/hyroxycholroquine is a miracle cure stuff would've still propagated on the right through the internet  even while Fox wasn't on board with it.

 

Of course, all of this is assuming the right didn't successfully impeach Hillary for e-mail crimes like a week after she was sworn in.

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I think this all ignores the only thing that could have really changed outcomes: a functional congress harnessing the incredible resources of our nation to pay people to stay home and Bush was to stay closed. That’s what is going to drive our plight as a nation, the need to go back to work despite conditions that simply can’t be safe enough.

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1 hour ago, sblfilms said:

People know how bad Covid is and still go out and do whatever. My sister in law is a nurse at a hospital in Houston that had a large Covid patient load. Yesterday she had a party at her house with 20+ people. HRC as president doesn’t fix that flippancy.

 

Your SIL and other healthcare workers like her are frustrating - not only is having a house party a careless act in and of itself but it'll have impacts on other people who don't work with covid patients. I'm sure anyone questioning the severity of the disease thought it can't be too bad if a nurse impacted by it isn't following guidelines.

 

This virus lends itself well to conspiracy theories: the incubation period and severity/range of symptoms alone can make any conspiracy theory-curious person doubt the impacts of the disease. Then you add inconvenience to the me-first-instant-gratification culture in the US, and top everything off with an incompetent/evil administration that caused further distrust by having wildly different messages.

 

For the majority who didn't fall into this category and are taking things seriously, the lack of necessary action due to pisspoor national testing/tracing infrastructure (ie, none) and federal support for those affected by any lockdowns to actually remain indoors has contributed to us spinning our wheels and making no progress.

 

Without a doubt, HRC would have managed this better. 1. HRC may have sat on COVID similar to other countries but she wouldn't wait for it to spread in the community before taking action. 2. As mentioned earlier, she wouldn't have disbanded (nor discredited) the taskforce. 3. The Obama playbook would not go to waste (from what I recall - included in it were procuring PPE and equipment, as well as establishing testing and tracing necessities). 4. PPP, unemployment benefits, and sick leave support wouldn't be this wishful thought that Americans who qualify hopefully get it. 5. Let's assume there are no changes to lives lost to police brutality - HRC would not go benghazi on Portland and threaten other cities, further empowering the right wing talking point "if it's safe to protest and riot, it's safe to fully reopen the economy and fuck masks herp derp."

 

An earlier response with an actual strategy would have saved a shit ton of lives. I have no doubts HRC would have carried out a strategy, leaning on the experts to guide the conversation rather than this bullshit "plan" we have now.

 

Sidenote: There is a huge difference in federal response to Ebola when compared to COVID. The level of preparation we took for Ebola mirrored how the federal government guided the conversation. With COVID, we weren't moving nearly as quick, partially due to the false sense of security the Trump a administration was trying to portray. There are other factors to consider, but we definitely weren't alone with a slow start.

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5 minutes ago, Ricofoley said:

But then if you go all-in on that idea, you can't do the "all of this actually a hoax" stuff at the same time

Immigrants are lazy and on welfare

Immigrants steal our jobs

 

 

Clinton is to stupid and weak to be President

Clinton is secretly running an underground government to overthrow our current one, she also runs the biggest pedo ring

 

 

The government is terrible and we need to guns to keep them in check

You commie bastard! you will love this government or leave!

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Ricofoley said:

Just having airport screenings in line with what the rest of the world was doing at the beginning would've helped immensely. People were talking about having connecting flights in Europe where they got fever checks and were asked a bunch of questions about exactly where they'd been, and then once they got to the US they just stepped right off the plane and went right through customs.

We did a story early on wher one of the correspondent's sons returned from Europe and walked right in. No temperature checks, no questions about where they traveled from, NOTHING. A lot of Americans at the time were shocked because it was completely opposite of what they experienced traveling in Europe.

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The CDC played games and sowed confusion in telling people how (in)effective masks were because they were worried about a shortage causing further problems at hospitals. Because this administration abjectly refused to mobilize the government and private industry to prepare the nation.

 

In Hillary's America masks are provided free. In trump's America we get "Air Police 4 with four layers of protection for you and your family; five for only $9.99 plus shipping and handling."

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23 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

I think this all ignores the only thing that could have really changed outcomes: a functional congress harnessing the incredible resources of our nation to pay people to stay home and Bush was to stay closed. That’s what is going to drive our plight as a nation, the need to go back to work despite conditions that simply can’t be safe enough.

I think the media is partially to blame. When everything is oversimplified into raw cases and deaths using a scoreboard like it's the Superb Owl, it downplays how much is still unknown.

 

 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/brain-fog-heart-damage-covid-19-s-lingering-problems-alarm-scientists

 

Quote

Ongoing problems include fatigue, a racing heartbeat, shortness of breath, achy joints, foggy thinking, a persistent loss of sense of smell, and damage to the heart, lungs, kidneys, and brain.

 

This nonchalant approach like we know all that needs to be learned baffles my mind. Some people will take more precautions to avoid herpes than they would this disease with worse (and potentially indefinite) effects.

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The ruling class is certainly worried that people will figure out that our entire economy and way of life is just made up non-sense and we could create a fundamentally different society if we wanted.

 

We should fully expect the GOP to try and push for a return to normal as fast as possible, but even the Dems have been all too willing to follow suit. Pelosi was allowing for long recesses while key programs were barreling towards expectation.

 

There is no sense of urgency from our leaders on the things that would actually turn the tide.

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34 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

I think this all ignores the only thing that could have really changed outcomes: a functional congress harnessing the incredible resources of our nation to pay people to stay home and Bush was to stay closed. That’s what is going to drive our plight as a nation, the need to go back to work despite conditions that simply can’t be safe enough.

And in alt world with president Hillary, we'd probably be looking at an even more conservative senate and house so uh... yeahhhh

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24 minutes ago, Anathema- said:

The CDC played games and sowed confusion in telling people how (in)effective masks were because they were worried about a shortage causing further problems at hospitals. Because this administration abjectly refused to mobilize the government and private industry to prepare the nation.

 

In Hillary's America masks are provided free. In trump's America we get "Air Police 4 with four layers of protection for you and your family; five for only $9.99 plus shipping and handling."

 

This is partially incorrect. We have had a major shift in thinking about the way masks work during this pandemic. That does not mean Abbott (until a few weeks ago) and DeSantis aren't culpable for  not putting mask mandates in their state, but even the WHO was not recommending masks initially. It's not ALL Trump's fault, just mostly imo lol.

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To elaborate, masks are not very effective in terms of protecting you from unmasked people. So while the CDC did make that recommendation to protect PPE, it was coupled with the understanding that having a few people wearing masks was essentially pointless and would further rob the nation of badly needed PPE. I agree that we should have been far better prepared in terms of PPE, but I think the CDC makes that recommendation initially even in a Clinton administration. It made logical sense at the time.

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15 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

I'm on day 16 of waiting on my results*

 

*I had a feeling the results would take a long time, so I also got tested at UNLV and those results took about a week.

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1 hour ago, emalider said:

This nonchalant approach like we know all that needs to be learned baffles my mind. Some people will take more precautions to avoid herpes than they would this disease with worse (and potentially indefinite) effects.

 

I'd be terrified as an athlete knowing about Eduardo Rodriguez's situation

 

 

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1 hour ago, Joe said:

 

This is partially incorrect. We have had a major shift in thinking about the way masks work during this pandemic. That does not mean Abbott (until a few weeks ago) and DeSantis aren't culpable for  not putting mask mandates in their state, but even the WHO was not recommending masks initially. It's not ALL Trump's fault, just mostly imo lol.

 

I'm not being hyperbolic.  That "shift" was just a cover story. 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/fauci-mask-advice-was-because-doctors-shortages-from-the-start-2020-6

 

Quote

Dr. Anthony Fauci said Friday the reason the public was advised not to wear masks at the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic was that there were too few to go around.

In an interview with the financial-news site TheStreet, Fauci, the US government's foremost infectious-diseases expert, was asked about the changing government advice on wearing masks.

 

In January through March, as the spread of the disease became more and more serious, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention actively discouraged the use of masks among the general public.

 

By early April, simple cloth face coverings were recommended for the general public, instead of protective personal equipment such as surgical and N95 masks, The New York Times reported.

 

Fauci's comments echo those of Surgeon General Jerome Adams on March 2, when he said that the increased demand for masks was putting medical professionals at risk.

A few days earlier, he tweeted that masks were "not effective in preventing" COVID-19 in the general public, saying, "Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS!" He later reversed his advice.

 

Fauci explained the early advice against masks by saying: "The public-health community — and many people were saying this — were concerned that it was at a time when personal protective equipment, including the N95 masks and the surgical masks, were in very short supply."

 

The efficacy of masks was proven in Asia during the SARS outbreak. 

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It's unfortunate that Fauci said that, as I understand the strategy, but it definitely fed a lot into conspiracy theories surrounding the pandemic.

 

If he would have told everyone to wear a mask, that surely would have led to even greater PPE shortages in hospitals though.

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Just now, mclumber1 said:

It's unfortunate that Fauci said that, as I understand the strategy, but it definitely fed a lot into conspiracy theories surrounding the pandemic.

 

If he would have told everyone to wear a mask, that surely would have led to even greater PPE shortages in hospitals though.

 

If Trump would have invoked the DPA to ramp up PPE production then there wouldn't have been a need to engage in mask rationing. 

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14 minutes ago, Ricofoley said:

 

I'd be terrified as an athlete knowing about Eduardo Rodriguez's situation

 

 

What worries me about stories like this, is do we have any data that says this kind of damage to the body CANNOT happen to kids? Exposing them by reopening schools could cause some to have permanent, life long health issues. Or at least reduced function. 
 

One of many reasons I strongly oppose schools reopening for in person classes. 

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2 minutes ago, Anathema- said:

 

I'm not being hyperbolic.  That "shift" was just a cover story. 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/fauci-mask-advice-was-because-doctors-shortages-from-the-start-2020-6

 

 

The efficacy of masks was proven in Asia during the SARS outbreak. 

 

I understand that it was a major reason why, but it was not the sole reason. Even the WHO initially said to not wear masks.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/who-changes-covid-19-mask-guidance-wear-one-if-you-n1226116

 

 

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It is hard to remember even what has happened since February and March, but wasn’t there a mask shortage globally? It seemed like there were fights between nations to stock up in those days. The speed at which the virus ramped up was a surprise to the world. I don’t doubt an HRC administration gets things lined up with some speed, but the initial rationing was an issue pretty much everywhere in the world except Asia where mask wearing is a normal practice for people outside of pandemics just when they are feeling ill normally.

 

I would also point out that the science showing that any sort of covering over your face and mouth aided in decreasing the projection of droplets from your mouth and nose came quite a bit after the initial run in N95 and surgical masks. If that were known and widely accepted in February, there is no need for Fauci/CDC/WHO/whoever to run that gambit regarding masks.

 

Which is why I come back to what is happening now. We know all manner of things now that we didn’t back then and our case counts and deaths have risen because it doesn’t matter what we know if people and businesses are forced back to work less they lose their homes and livelihoods. That piece isn’t fixed without a functional Congress, and what makes people think the GOP goes along more with an HRC administrations lead than they do with the Trump admin. I mean, there are areas right now where the Trump admin is fighting with the GOP for even minor stimulus spending packages.

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Seems we've been managing better at work. No one else I work with has gotten sick. Always make me sad when I hear a Code Blue called on the Covid unit, though, which seems to happen pretty regularly.

 

In a bit more positive news, at least for me, I finally got my hazard pay. An extra $2k on my check and they're talking of extending it.

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2 hours ago, Ricofoley said:

 

I'd be terrified as an athlete knowing about Eduardo Rodriguez's situation

 

 

One of the co-morbidities for COVID 19 is obesity and since 75% of NFL players are technically obese... and outbreak with those guys could be catastrophic.

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https://www.insidehook.com/article/sports/mlb-outbreak-mistakes

 

All of that ass slapping in the dugouts is going to get the season cancelled.  This is just as much the players' fault as it is the leagues.  

 

Prorate their pay to only the number of games they played this year. 

 

 

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