~*Official #COVID-19 Thread of Doom*~ Revenge of Omicron Prime

[Jason]

1 minute ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Are you confusing Cuomo, The Governor of NY State for DiBlasio, the Mayer of NY City? Cuomo has been awesome and DiBlasio was the late one.

 

wat

 

De Blasio wanted to institute a stay at home order and Cuomo blocked that for the better part of a week, primarily just to fuck with de Blasio. 

[skillzdadirecta]

20 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Cuomo is not an example of someone doing a good job. He did terrible job and between him and deblasio is responsible for NY being in the state it is in now. He does have a press that is doing a good job covering his ass though. 
 

inslee is by far doing the best and isn’t getting enough credit 

I'm literally HERE in the NY/NJ area... so is @Jose what exactly is Cuomo doing wrong or HAS done wrong? 

[Joe]

1 minute ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I'm literally HERE in the NY/NJ area... so is @Jose what exactly is Cuomo doing wrong or HAS done wrong? 

 

He issued a stay at home order a day after Newsom and has gotten more tests done per capita than any other state except for Louisiana I believe.

[Jason]

Just now, Jose said:

He issued a stay at home order a day after Newsom and has gotten more tests done per capita than any other state except for Louisiana I believe.

 

March 17: New York governor dismisses possibility of shelter in place order after mayor urged New Yorkers to prepare for it

 

Quote

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo dismissed the possibility of an imminent shelter in place order Tuesday night after New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio urged New Yorkers to prepare for the measure.

"My job is to make sure that the state has a coordinated plan and it works everywhere. I don't think shelter in place really works for one locality," Cuomo, a Democrat, told CNN's Jake Tapper.

 

"I'm a New York City boy, born and raised if you can't tell, and we're very good at getting around the rules. You say shelter in place if you stay in New York City, I'll go stay with my sister in Westchester, right? I'll go stay with a buddy in the neighboring suburb of Nassau," he continued. "So I don't think you can really do a policy like that just in one part of the state. So I don't think it works."

 

"As a matter of fact, I'm going so far that I don't even think you can do a state-wide policy."

 

[Joe]

8 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

wat

 

De Blasio wanted to institute a stay at home order and Cuomo blocked that for the better part of a week, primarily just to fuck with de Blasio. 

 

How the hell could you make this post after reading that article?

 

It was 3 days before, not a week, and DeBlasio simply discussed the possibility. He was not blocked in any way and 3 days later Cuomo issued the order for the state.

[Spork3245]

5 minutes ago, Jose said:

 

How the hell could you make this post after reading that article?

Because nipple rings!

 

[CitizenVectron]

My province has hit a tentative peak for active cases (not just new cases):

 

 

 

We have a few natural advantages.

• While 1/2 of population is in the two cities, there is nothing around those cities for hundreds/thousands of kilometers (like many Canadian urban centres). This means that for cases to arrive, they typically need to come by air. With reduced travel in place, new (inbound) cases are less likely
• Our "spring" break had already occurred in February, before the outbreak was widespread (compared to Quebec, who had theirs just as the lockdowns were starting in Mar)
• Testing has been widespread and with few limits. Around 1.5% of the population has been tested

 

Most of our advantages were just luck/history-based, not anything we did. Still, I'm grateful for that.

[skillzdadirecta]

Just now, Jose said:

 

He issued a stay at home order a day after Newsom and has gotten more tests done per capita than any other state except for Louisiana I believe.

Exactly right... I honestly don't know what these guys are talking about. Deblasio made a lot of missteps early on which can be summarized here.

 

https://gothamist.com/news/missteps-mayor-bill-de-blasios-coronavirus-response

 

I LIKE DeBlasio but the feeling here is he's probably gonna be gone after this term. He just pissed of the teachers of Manhattan too for forcing them to work remotely through Spring Break and not even getting Good Friday off. I'm not gonna get into a back and forth with anyone about this, I'm sure Cuomo has made some mistakes. Overall New Yorkers and folks in the Tri-state area confident in his leadership (along with Governor Murphy of New Jersey) and I've seen very little critiques of how he's handled things. He's open and transparent in his daily briefings and folks here appreciate that. He's not ducking or deflecting any of the blame and is owning the decisions he's making and he's working Trump like a fiddle in order to get what he needs for The State.  Honestly this topic is the first critique I've seen of Cuomo's performance.

[skillzdadirecta]

29 minutes ago, Jose said:

 

How the hell could you make this post after reading that article?

 

It was 3 days before, not a week, and DeBlasio simply discussed the possibility. He was not blocked in any way and 3 days later Cuomo issued the order for the state.

Yeah I remember that and it definitely wasn't perceived as a misstep here. There was a lot of misinformation flying around and Cuomo basically was trying to prevent a panic because at the time, rumors were that the national guard was going to come in and essentially blockade the City. De Blasio got out in front of his skis and and added to that anxiety by going from, "we have nothing to worry about, go to the movies" to "we're going to shut down the city." Cuomo never STOPPED De Blasio from issuing an shelter in place for NY that's a VERY disingenuous reading of that article.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Are you confusing Cuomo, The Governor of NY State for DiBlasio, the Mayer of NY City? Cuomo has been awesome and DiBlasio was the late one. NY was one of the earliest states to implement social distancing. Also his leadership with his daily briefings is must watch TV for those of us here in the Tri-state area... and he and the governors of NY and Connecticut have basically formed an aliiance with this whole ordeal. I don't think I've seen any critiques of Cuomo's handling of this and even his detractors in the city have come around and are giving him credit for how he's been handling this. Cuomo deserves a LOT if credit for how he's been handling things.

If you're satisfied, you're satisfied. I would start with reading about what Cuomo did to the NY health department over the last 2 years leading up to this. I don't give people much credit for semi-competently cleaning up a mess they helped create.

Also, pointing to the time delay between Newsom and Cuomo's shelter at home orders as you and @Jose are doing fundamentally misses the issue. When you order is directly related to your own situation, and so it wasn't just a couple days late, it was more than a week late by the council of experts in the field. That's why he was downplaying the notion of the shelter at home order, because it had been in intense and growing discussion for a couple of weeks at that point. He didn't have the political courage to do it when he should have.

@b_m_b_m_b_mis right to praise Inslee, who started locking things down when that idea was completely foreign to Americans. That is the sort of work that should be praised.

[SuperSpreader]

Guys, it doesn't matter who's at fault. Let's just agree to never elect a New Yorker again except for AOC.

[CitizenVectron]

 

South Korea still having problems.

 

[marioandsonic]

46 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

My province has hit a tentative peak for active cases (not just new cases):

 

 

 

We have a few natural advantages.

• While 1/2 of population is in the two cities, there is nothing around those cities for hundreds/thousands of kilometers (like many Canadian urban centres). This means that for cases to arrive, they typically need to come by air. With reduced travel in place, new (inbound) cases are less likely
• Our "spring" break had already occurred in February, before the outbreak was widespread (compared to Quebec, who had theirs just as the lockdowns were starting in Mar)
• Testing has been widespread and with few limits. Around 1.5% of the population has been tested

 

Most of our advantages were just luck/history-based, not anything we did. Still, I'm grateful for that.

How did you find that chart for your province?  I want to see my state.

[Joe]

7 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

If you're satisfied, you're satisfied. I would start with reading about what Cuomo did to the NY health department over the last 2 years leading up to this. I don't give people much credit for semi-competently cleaning up a mess they helped create.

Also, pointing to the time delay between Newsom and Cuomo's shelter at home orders as you and @Jose are doing fundamentally misses the issue. When you order is directly related to your own situation, and so it wasn't just a couple days late, it was more than a week late by the council of experts in the field. That's why he was downplaying the notion of the shelter at home order, because it had been in intense and growing discussion for a couple of weeks at that point. He didn't have the political courage to do it when he should have.

@b_m_b_m_b_mis right to praise Inslee, who started locking things down when that idea was completely foreign to Americans. That is the sort of work that should be praised.

 

 

I mean, I am praising Inslee. But he issued his stay at home order only on March 23. Unless you mean something else by starting to lock things down.

 

Also, the discussion was who is acting the best during this crisis. You are shifting the discussion a bit by talking about Cuomo's past follies, even if it had a direct impact on the current situation. We are purely discussing response to the crisis. Otherwise, DeWine would be knocked severely as well.

[CitizenVectron]

2 minutes ago, marioandsonic said:

How did you find that chart for your province?  I want to see my state.

 

Someone on reddit made this for the province using public data.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

For me, it's Inslee and DeWine.

 

Everyone else is an also-ran.

[PaladinSolo]

Let's be real, we'll never be where south Korea is because we bath in jesus' blood or something. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Jose said:

 

 

I mean, I am praising Inslee. But he issued his stay at home order only on March 23. Unless you mean something else by starting to lock things down.

 

Also, the discussion was who is acting the best during this crisis. You are shifting the discussion a bit by talking about Cuomo's past follies, even if it had a direct impact on the current situation. We are purely discussing response to the crisis. Otherwise, DeWine would be knocked severely as well.

Inslee's government started measures well before March 23rd, that is simply when they went statewide with the current measures. I'm not shifting anything, either, the path to how we are where we are in regards to NYS and NYC begins earlier and Cuomo's missteps on health policy continued well into March. Cuomo mostly just has good press conferences, where his straight talk attitude works exceptionally well.

[skillzdadirecta]

20 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

If you're satisfied, you're satisfied. I would start with reading about what Cuomo did to the NY health department over the last 2 years leading up to this. I don't give people much credit for semi-competently cleaning up a mess they helped create.

Also, pointing to the time delay between Newsom and Cuomo's shelter at home orders as you and @Jose are doing fundamentally misses the issue. When you order is directly related to your own situation, and so it wasn't just a couple days late, it was more than a week late by the council of experts in the field. That's why he was downplaying the notion of the shelter at home order, because it had been in intense and growing discussion for a couple of weeks at that point. He didn't have the political courage to do it when he should have.

@b_m_b_m_b_mis right to praise Inslee, who started locking things down when that idea was completely foreign to Americans. That is the sort of work that should be praised.

Nope, not gonna do it... I'll respectfully disagree and bow out of this particular "debate" 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Nope, not gonna do it... I'll respectfully disagree and bow out of this particular "debate" 

 

[johnny]

i think Cuomo was late to the party which is partly why things are so bad. Part of that blame goes to de blasio to be fair. I think once cuomo started to set things into motion he has done well. 
 

I like what Newsom has done but it is still early in California so we will see. I think the better outcomes in the bay area will help him out when those counties were taking action before he locked it down. Inslee and DeWine have been really impressive to me. 

[Joe]

I mean we can debate without getting mad at each other lol. I'm bored in between Zoom meetings and need to kill time.

 

Look at the per capita testing numbers by state. NY demolishes every other state and has actually passed Louisiana now. If NY was a country, only Switzerland would beat us in terms of per capita testing. Also, found an article about how the NYDOH is about to come out with an antibody test, the first state to do so to my knowledge. Cuomo is doing very well.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Jose said:

I mean we can debate without getting mad at each other lol. I'm bored in between Zoom meetings and need to kill time.

No doubt. I'm up at the theater doing some extended spring cleaning. 6 years of random crap is getting tossed out! Trying to be a little productive as opposed to just stewing in my self pity  Chatting with you guys is good for me too.

[skillzdadirecta]

Just to be clear I'm not mad... this is just a particular debate that I'm not really interested in having because it primarily depends on one's point of view. My perspective being here and experiencing this in real time is different than someone elses who has some distance from it. My perspective may be skewed and I recognize that so I'm not gonna die on any hills that I'm not entirely secure on. I have NO IDEA what Cuomo's record has been prior to this because the last time I spent this amount of time in the area, longer than a couple of weeks, Spitzer was governor   My comment about his performance was largely about how he's handled the crisis since the shut down started. He's been a steady and reassuring presence for those of us in the area even us next door in Jersey. I'm still commuting back and forth to the city for work so I HAVE to believe there's competent leadership over there in order to stay sane 

[Jason]

Also, Cuomo is still trying to gut Medicaid in NY. 

[Jason]

 

[Jason]

Former CDC head: New York death toll might be 80 percent lower if social distancing was enacted 2 weeks earlier

[Signifyin(g)Monkey]

3 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

It does require keeping these measures on place for many months. 18+ months if you want to keep the infection rate dropping. The only reason deaths are slowing (in acceleration) is because of the measures taken. If they are loosened, then spread accelerates again. I don't know how you can say I am probably wrong about that.

It's a gamble either way.  The thing is, most businesses--and in turn most people's jobs--probably can't survive a longer shutdown.

 

By erring on the side of a shorter-length lockdown, you're gambling that even if it makes the deceleration of infection take longer, or makes it go in reverse for a little while, it will nonetheless remain at a tolerable level--i.e., one that won't overwhelm the health system--and you'll save thousands upon thousands of businesses from going under and thousands upon thousands of jobs.  If you lose this gamble, the rate of infection (and consequently the virus' death rate) will come roaring back, and you'll likely be forced into another, even more economically destructive shutdown later down the road.  If you win, you've saved probably a good one-third of the population from being pointlessly immiserated, at a minimal cost to the public health.

 

By erring on the side of a longer lockdown, you're gambling that your country can politically handle a depression that will likely be unprecedented in scale and severity, in return for a stronger guarantee that the infection rate subsides.  If you lose this gamble, you could easily see civil unrest unlike anything we've seen before.  If you win, you've avoided an Italy-on-steroids situation which would have been worse than the economic depression you have to endure.

 

I understand your position, but I also understand why many people--and not just the political elites--would rather go with gamble #1.

[Joe]

 

I think 5 is the clear winner here.

[PaladinSolo]

 

[Spork3245]

Murphy just signed an order that you now must wear some type of facial covering if you enter any essential business (ie: grocery store).

[CitizenVectron]

14 minutes ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said:

It's a gamble either way.  The thing is, most businesses--and in turn most people's jobs--probably can't survive a longer shutdown.

 

By erring on the side of a shorter-length lockdown, you're gambling that even if it makes the deceleration of infection take longer, or makes it go in reverse for a little while, it will nonetheless remain at a tolerable level--i.e., one that won't overwhelm the health system--and you'll save thousands upon thousands of businesses from going under and thousands upon thousands of jobs.  If you lose this gamble, the rate of infection (and consequently the virus' death rate) will come roaring back, and you'll likely be forced into another, even more economically destructive shutdown later down the road.  If you win, you've saved probably a good one-third of the population from being pointlessly immiserated, at a minimal cost to the public health.

 

By erring on the side of a longer lockdown, you're gambling that your country can politically handle a depression that will likely be unprecedented in scale and severity, in return for a stronger guarantee that the infection rate subsides.  If you lose this gamble, you could easily see civil unrest unlike anything we've seen before.  If you win, you've avoided an Italy-on-steroids situation which would have been worse than the economic depression you have to endure.

 

I understand your position, but I also understand why many people--and not just the political elites--would rather go with gamble #1.

 

I understand the choice, and agree we simply don't have enough information to know which is the correct path. I think that some countries are better prepared to proceed down the cautious path, and that others are not. I don't think (based on the relief handling so far) that the US will be able to sustain prolonged restrictions, and I think it's from a lack of will (and ideological beliefs) at the federal level. Obviously the restrictions cannot continue forever (simply for the sake of manufacturing and food distribution, even if we accept a massive change in employment type, and how we live), and that means there is a sliding scale of how long it can, versus how much a society can afford/tolerate (and also how much buy-in a government can get from its people). The culture of the US (individual freedom over the greater good, combined with a lack of strong safety net/accepted use of redistribution and socialism) is going to make it much more difficult to keep measures in place compared to say, social democracies like Norway, or places with stronger hierarchical/obedience-based cultures like some Asian countries (or of course totalitarian nations).

[Joe]

9 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

Murphy just signed an order that you now must wear some type of facial covering if you enter any essential business (ie: grocery store).

 

Would be great if we could get masks out to the population, but this is still awesome.

[CitizenVectron]

Not only has the US federal government been stealing PPE orders from other countries, they have been doing it to US hospitals and health regions:

 

Hospitals say feds are seizing masks and other coronavirus supplies without a word

 

Quote

Although President Trump has directed states and hospitals to secure what supplies they can, the federal government is quietly seizing orders, leaving medical providers across the country in the dark about where the material is going and how they can get what they need to deal with the coronavirus pandemic.

Hospital and clinic officials in seven states described the seizures in interviews over the past week. The Federal Emergency Management Agency is not publicly reporting the acquisitions, despite the outlay of millions of dollars of taxpayer money, nor has the administration detailed how it decides which supplies to seize and where to reroute them.

Officials who’ve had materials seized also say they’ve received no guidance from the government about how or if they will get access to the supplies they ordered. That has stoked concerns about how public funds are being spent and whether the Trump administration is fairly distributing scarce medical supplies.

 

Quote

In Florida, a large medical system saw an order for thermometers taken away. And officials at a system in Massachusetts were unable to determine where its order of masks went.

“Are they stockpiling this stuff? Are they distributing it? We don’t know,” one official said. “And are we going to ever get any of it back if we need supplies? It would be nice to know these things.”

PeaceHealth, a 10-hospital system in Washington, Oregon and Alaska, had a shipment of testing supplies seized recently. “It’s incredibly frustrating,” said Richard DeCarlo, the system’s chief operating officer.

 

[Spork3245]

6 minutes ago, Jose said:

 

Would be great if we could get masks out to the population, but this is still awesome.

Yea, I feel like for this to be plausible for everyone (ie: those who cannot afford masks) that stores should be provided masks to hand to customers as they walk in. I’m able to get things that are acceptable, but I don’t believe that’s the case for every NJ citizen.