Commodore D Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 minute ago, sblfilms said: I don’t think you are against it, I think you fundamentally misunderstand why we do mass vaccination of communicable disease. Certainly there can be personal benefits, like not being sick enough you needed to take pin meds for the first time in over a decade, but the societal benefits of vaccination should be now abundantly clear to somebody using logic and reason. Even the hospitals that have capacity for more patients are struggling with staffing due to burnout amongst their employees. Many places have been back to putting off non-emergency surgeries (which include things like cancer surgeries!) because they simply don’t have the staffing to do so. And who is putting these hospitals under prolonged stress? Right now, it is the unvaccinated. And it’s honestly a bit silly to say “only those with co-morbidities” when you live in a country in which something like 80% of the adult population has one or more of them. And these aren’t conditions that are solvable in any short order. Agreed (well expect that I do understand mass vaccination). While it may be silly to say, it is a fact. One of my hopes that come out of this is that there is more pressure to address those issues instead of ignoring them because of the economic benefits. All in all, if I am presented with a well vetted vaccine, that is close to one and done; I'd be in line to get it if coerced (work, travel, etc..). At the moment, based on the math and science, it does not make sense for me to accept the coercion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Like you don't get some bonus or special prize for taking this risk of not being vaccinated. There is no risk/reward, only risk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Just now, Commodore D said: At the moment, based on the math and science, it does not make sense for me to accept the coercion Wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Clearly that so called previous covid infection must have left a long covid symptom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodporne Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore D Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: "That status changes (research has shown)" what the fuck are you talking about?? What research? That we might need annual boosters or something like that? Right now fully vaccinated means two weeks after two shots of mRNA or one of J&J, boosters for olds and immunocompromised. Why take chances? There's a whole lot of negatives and no upside to remaining unvaccinated. Why do you have no interest in being vaccinated? Yes, your status as fully vaccinated changes based on the timing of your last shot, and or booster. They are currently researching the long term need for annual boosters (heck Moderna has a flu/covid hybrid on tap). You are ignoring the math behind the chances that are being taken. Based on that, it really doesn't make a difference for me. I don't have an issue getting a vaccine; I do have issue with taking something that makes little difference for my situation (provides no real upside), that I may have to continue to get. Again, if the boosters are not needed, I'd be fine with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore D Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 5 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Clearly that so called previous covid infection must have left a long covid symptom Yeah, I haven't had a sense of smell in almost two years. Crazy when the wife gets in the car and says "mmmm, doesn't have Tika Masla smell delicious," and I didn't even notice. That was noticed March 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Just now, Commodore D said: You are ignoring the math behind the chances that are being taken. Based on that, it really doesn't make a difference for me. Show your work instead of merely pronouncing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, Commodore D said: don't have an issue getting a vaccine; I do have issue with taking something that makes little difference for my situation (provides no real upside), that I may have to continue to get. Again, if the boosters are not needed, I'd be fine with it. This isn't how this virus works, it changes and evolves so boosters may be needed. But that the vaccines protect against all variants right now shows promise for future protection. Same can not be said about infection from the virus itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore D Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Show your work instead of merely pronouncing it I will when Absolutesurgen show his/hers/its. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, Commodore D said: Agreed (well expect that I do understand mass vaccination). While it may be silly to say, it is a fact. One of my hopes that come out of this is that there is more pressure to address those issues instead of ignoring them because of the economic benefits. All in all, if I am presented with a well vetted vaccine, that is close to one and done; I'd be in line to get it if coerced (work, travel, etc..). At the moment, based on the math and science, it does not make sense for me to accept the coercion. You absolutely don’t understand the reason for mass vaccination if legitimately every point you raise is about your individual risk! And I don’t mean that in some mean way, it simply is true that if your only focus is individual outcomes then you are not understanding why a society implements mass vaccination. There are no one and done vaccines for anything. They all require boosters, and I’m sure you gave your children many booster doses of vaccines. The only things that we tend to stop getting boosters of are the diseases that peter out in the adult population. Your position does not seem logically consistent given what you’ve said about your previous experience with vaccinating your children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 20 minutes ago, Commodore D said: Its actually easier in other countries; I've been looking; some fantastic destinations out there for me to early retire. I am very proud that Canada at this point basically has a nation-wide vaccine passport system (each province, but effectively). It's patchwork and some places are doing it better than others...but fuck people who don't want to get vaccinated because they don't understand the science. If they want to go to restaurants, movies, concerts, sporting events, liquor stores, etc, they can get vaccinated. The greater good > individual opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CayceG Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Just now, Commodore D said: I will when Absolutesurgen show his/hers/its. What religion are you seeking an exemption under? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Just now, Commodore D said: I will when Absolutesurgen show his/hers/its. I don't care what they have to say about this, the burden is on you to prove that all the math and science "proves" you don't need jt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Took less than a week for reddit to start clamping down on the Herman Cain Award sub after that Slate article. Some of the changes they're forcing negate why the sub was effective at getting a lot of people to get vaccinated. r/HermanCainAward gets new rules from Admins. users not happy : SubredditDrama OLD.REDDIT.COM The sub for cataloguing the ironic deaths of Covid deniers/antivaxxers through their social media posts was forced to amend its rules today.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore D Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: This isn't how viruses work, they change and evolve. But that the vaccines protect against all variants right now shows promise for future protection. Same can not be said about infection from the virus itself. You mean like the flu? Looks like the same trajectory; timed protection because the virus changes. There is no evidence that this will be any different; its currently being researched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, CayceG said: What religion are you seeking an exemption under? They've already admitted they are lying about the religious exemption, using it as a loophole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 10 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: This isn't how viruses work, they change and evolve so boosters may be needed. But that the vaccines protect against all variants right now shows promise for future protection. Same can not be said about infection from the virus itself. I am curious why you think this when we are seeing better stats out of the prior infection/no vaccine cohort in comparison to the greater than 6 months since second dose of Pfizer cohort in Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore D Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: I don't care what they have to say about this, the burden is on you to prove that all the math and science "proves" you don't need jt NVSS - Provisional Death Counts for COVID-19 - Executive Summary WWW.CDC.GOV National Center for Health Statistics I don't fall into the major buckets of people that are dying. I haven't ran the number since the summer, but at the time I had p value of ~.0003; stating that it was improbably that I would die from Covid. That's good enough evidence that I don't need it. @sblfilms again I get mass vaccination, and you don't need me to get to a herd immunity state, especially in a country like you stated where 80% of the people should get the shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore D Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 8 minutes ago, Jason said: Took less than a week for reddit to start clamping down on the Herman Cain Award sub after that Slate article. Some of the changes they're forcing negate why the sub was effective at getting a lot of people to get vaccinated. r/HermanCainAward gets new rules from Admins. users not happy : SubredditDrama OLD.REDDIT.COM The sub for cataloguing the ironic deaths of Covid deniers/antivaxxers through their social media posts was forced to amend its rules today.... Sad how Herman Cain is used; really should be someone that is championed (especially in the black community) based on life and career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore D Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, sblfilms said: I am curious why you think this when we are seeing better stats out of the prior infection/no vaccine cohort in comparison to the greater than 6 months since second dose of Pfizer cohort in Israel. I'm glad you mentioned that, I didn't want to be the one that brings up what we are seeing in Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore D Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 10 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: They've already admitted they are lying about the religious exemption, using it as a loophole. I'm not lying, it should be well known here I am a man of faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_MH Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, Commodore D said: NVSS - Provisional Death Counts for COVID-19 - Executive Summary WWW.CDC.GOV National Center for Health Statistics I don't fall into the major buckets of people that are dying. I haven't ran the number since the summer, but at the time I had p value of ~.0003; stating that it was improbably that I would die from Covid. That's good enough evidence that I don't need it. @sblfilms again I get mass vaccination, and you don't need me to get to a herd immunity state, especially in a country like you stated where 80% of the people should get the shot. Yeah, but if you did get sick from COVID and needed to be hospitalized would you go take up a hospital bed that could be used by some non-COVID-related issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CayceG Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Commodore D said: I'm not lying, it should be well known here I am a man of faith. So am I. So from one to another, what faith are you claiming exemption through? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Commodore D said: NVSS - Provisional Death Counts for COVID-19 - Executive Summary WWW.CDC.GOV National Center for Health Statistics I don't fall into the major buckets of people that are dying. I haven't ran the number since the summer, but at the time I had p value of ~.0003; stating that it was improbably that I would die from Covid. That's good enough evidence that I don't need it. @sblfilms again I get mass vaccination, and you don't need me to get to a herd immunity state, especially in a country like you stated where 80% of the people should get the shot. Why is your only concern being dead? Three days of illness sucks on a personal level and is incredibly costly to me on a professional level. I am happy to get vaccinated to greatly reduce the likelihood of even that outcome! And I get that you are free riding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_MH Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Commodore D said: I'm not lying, it should be well known here I am a man of faith. Hey, that's zero excuse. I'm also a man of faith. I view vaccinations as a matter of taking care of other, less fortunate folks out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore D Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Ghost_MH said: Yeah, but if you did get sick from COVID and needed to be hospitalized would you go take up a hospital bed that could be used by some non-COVID-related issue? If its offered, sure. I pay for plenty of things that aren't my issue, could be avoided by others; such is life not as a hermit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said: Hey, that's zero excuse. I'm also a man of faith. I view vaccinations as a matter of taking care of other, less fortunate folks out there. A big emphasis in our family is Jesus’ directive to love your neighbor. I legitimately can’t think of an easier win on that front than for low risk people to be vaccinated for the sake of others. A couple of years ago we left the church we had been at for the last decade to go back to the church I grew up in. It’s legit 95% gray hairs over the age of 70. And the point for us was to go care for those people and eventually be the ones to lock up the building the last time. My kids were so excited to be able to get vaccinated so as to decrease the chance of getting our old folks sick, even as close to 100% of them have been vaccinated (it’s a bunch of former JSC engineers that started the church, so very scientifically literate folks). I am grateful for their generous hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 12 minutes ago, Commodore D said: I'm not lying, it should be well known here I am a man of faith. You already said you aren't taking it because of your misguided/misinformed/willfully ignorant views on the efficacy of the vaccines vs your own risk. And you won't answer which specific religion/belief would induce you to apply for an exemption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 5 minutes ago, sblfilms said: I am curious why you think this when we are seeing better stats out of the prior infection/no vaccine cohort in comparison to the greater than 6 months since second dose of Pfizer cohort in Israel. How Immunity Generated from COVID-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection – NIH Director's Blog DIRECTORSBLOG.NIH.GOV A key issue as we move closer to ending the pandemic is determining more precisely how long people exposed to SARS-CoV-2, the COVID-19 virus, will make neutralizing antibodies against... Basically it seems like mRNA vaccines elicit an attack the binding protein where natural infection may attack other proteins. Delta for example is more contagious because it can more efficient bind to the ace 2 receptor so in my lay understanding this would seem to indicate that longer term vaccination is more effective than natural immunity, but the combination is basically bullet proof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore D Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, sblfilms said: Why is your only concern being dead? Three days of illness sucks on a personal level and is incredibly costly to me on a professional level. I am happy to get vaccinated to greatly reduce the likelihood of even that outcome! And I get that you are free riding Lol right, while death is the most influential component; its likely that I wouldn't be down long (as evident from my recent case), nor need the hospital. It did suck though, I understood how people could die from it; if your body is working overtime to keep you alive anyway, that'll put you down. Professionally, it doesn't really make a difference, I just wont travel, or turn on my camera, or at worse "take off work." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 20 minutes ago, Commodore D said: NVSS - Provisional Death Counts for COVID-19 - Executive Summary WWW.CDC.GOV National Center for Health Statistics I don't fall into the major buckets of people that are dying. I haven't ran the number since the summer, but at the time I had p value of ~.0003; stating that it was improbably that I would die from Covid. That's good enough evidence that I don't need it. @sblfilms again I get mass vaccination, and you don't need me to get to a herd immunity state, especially in a country like you stated where 80% of the people should get the shot. Dieing isn't the only bad thing to happen, and personally I don't like getting sick at all so I can't understand why you would go out of your way to remain vulnerable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Commodore D said: Lol right, while death is the most influential component; its likely that I wouldn't be down long (as evident from my recent case), nor need the hospital. It did suck though, I understood how people could die from it; if your body is working overtime to keep you alive anyway, that'll put you down. Professionally, it doesn't really make a difference, I just wont travel, or turn on my camera, or at worse "take off work." What type of test did you get to confirm your previous infection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore D Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Dieing isn't the only bad thing to happen, and personally I don't like getting sick at all so I can't understand why you would go out of your way to remain vulnerable Whose to say I don't get sick from getting the shot as well? I could also get just as sick as I was if I had the shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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