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Houston Astros' Jeff Luhnow, AJ Hinch suspended 1 year; Alex Cora (Red Sox) and Carlos Beltran (Mets) Out

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10 hours ago, Littleronin said:

I'm more interested in the Boston punishment. Do remember Boston already got in trouble for sign stealing in 2017. At this point it would seem to me Boston hired Cora to step up there cheating game in the sign stealing department. 

Also I find it complete bullshit players aren't being punished. If anything this makes player more likely to go along with schemes for cheating as they won't lose anything if it is found out. 

 

Ehh...I'm not sure you can pin Boston hiring Cora to step up their sign stealing game when Apple Watches are clearly technically superior to banging on trashcans with a bat.

 

Either way, it gets tricky when it comes to punishing players for their role in organizational cheating. That is, how to you punish them without punishing their new teams for the sins of their old team. I would, however, totally be down for a ton of fines. I'm talking fines equal to every dollar they made per win as an Astro. The league isn't going to vacate any wins, so you may as well make them literally pay for them.

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18 hours ago, sblfilms said:

Directly from the report MLB issued:


 


I feel bad for Lunhow especially since it’s plainly presented that he didn’t know what was going on. Hinch is a little more questionable, but he physically broke the monitors on two occasions and explicitly spoke against the use of the reply room for decoding signs.
 

Jim Crane sucks.

 

 

Jeepers, baseball doesn't F around with cheating.

 

 

...NFL...you're very quite right now...you OK?  A little queasy, maybe just a little bit?, 

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5 minutes ago, BuckFly said:

...NFL...you're very quite right now...you OK?  A little queasy, maybe just a little bit?, 

 

spacer.png

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15 hours ago, sblfilms said:

 

That is not what the MLB report details, nor did any previous reporting say what you claim. The emails you reference encouraged scouts to figure out what would be necessary to steal signs from within the park, it didn’t direct the use of technology to do it. In that email

chain, some scouts explicitly pointed out that using cameras to do so would be against the rules. Sign stealing is legal. Electronically assisted sign stealing isn’t.

 

Facts, bruh.

 

 

From the actual investigation released:

 

The efforts involving the replay review room staff were mentioned in at least two emails sent to Luhnow, and there is conflicting evidence about conversations with Luhnow on the topic. Regardless of the level of Luhnow’s actual knowledge, the Astros’ violation of rules in 2017 and 2018 is attributable, in my view, to a failure by the leaders of the baseball operations department and the Field Manager to adequately manage the employees under their supervision, to establish a culture In re Houston Astros Decision Page 5 in which adherence to the rules is ingrained in the fabric of the organization, and to stop bad behavior as soon as it occurred.

 

Facts, bruh.

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2 minutes ago, Dodger said:

 

 

From the actual investigation released:

 

The efforts involving the replay review room staff were mentioned in at least two emails sent to Luhnow, and there is conflicting evidence about conversations with Luhnow on the topic. Regardless of the level of Luhnow’s actual knowledge, the Astros’ violation of rules in 2017 and 2018 is attributable, in my view, to a failure by the leaders of the baseball operations department and the Field Manager to adequately manage the employees under their supervision, to establish a culture In re Houston Astros Decision Page 5 in which adherence to the rules is ingrained in the fabric of the organization, and to stop bad behavior as soon as it occurred.

 

Facts, bruh.

The replay review room stuff isn’t what this is about, that’s the stuff a LOT of teams were doing, and why the MLB started sticking their own staff in replay rooms during games. The issue that caused all of this in the first place and ended with one year bans is the trash can banging live feed cheating system, which the report clearly establishes Lunhow didn’t know about.

 

Anything else you need explained?

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3 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

The replay review room stuff isn’t what this is about, that’s the stuff a LOT of teams were doing, and why the MLB started sticking their own staff in replay rooms during games. The issue that caused all of this in the first place and ended with one year bans is the trash can banging live feed cheating system, which the report clearly establishes Lunhow didn’t know about.

 

Anything else you need explained?

 

 

You posted this earlier:

 

Jeff Luhnow (General Manager). Luhnow adamantly denies knowledge of both the banging scheme and the efforts by the replay review room staff to decode signs and transmit them to the dugout. The investigation revealed no evidence to suggest that Luhnow was aware of the banging scheme. The investigation also revealed that Luhnow neither devised nor actively directed the efforts of the replay review room staff to decode signs in 2017 or 2018. Although Luhnow denies having any awareness that his replay review room staff was decoding and transmitting signs, there is both documentary and testimonial evidence that indicates Luhnow had some knowledge of those efforts, but he did not give it much attention.

 

At a minimum, he was aware something was going on, and did nothing to stop it. That's bad leadership, and for that he needed to be fired. 

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1 minute ago, Dodger said:

 

 

You posted this earlier:

 

Jeff Luhnow (General Manager). Luhnow adamantly denies knowledge of both the banging scheme and the efforts by the replay review room staff to decode signs and transmit them to the dugout. The investigation revealed no evidence to suggest that Luhnow was aware of the banging scheme. The investigation also revealed that Luhnow neither devised nor actively directed the efforts of the replay review room staff to decode signs in 2017 or 2018. Although Luhnow denies having any awareness that his replay review room staff was decoding and transmitting signs, there is both documentary and testimonial evidence that indicates Luhnow had some knowledge of those efforts, but he did not give it much attention.

 

At a minimum, he was aware something was going on, and did nothing to stop it. That's bad leadership, and for that he needed to be fired. 


The video replay room part isn’t why they got banned for the year. The Red Sox and Yankees both did the same thing during that season and got much smaller penalties. It’s the trash can banging system that is the issue. If the replay room cheating was the only thing the Astros had done this wouldn’t have been a story at this point. I don’t know how many different ways I can explain this to you :lol:

 

 

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31 minutes ago, sblfilms said:


The video replay room part isn’t why they got banned for the year. The Red Sox and Yankees both did the same thing during that season and got much smaller penalties. It’s the trash can banging system that is the issue. If the replay room cheating was the only thing the Astros had done this wouldn’t have been a story at this point. I don’t know how many different ways I can explain this to you :lol:

 

 

 

 

The real issue isn't even the trash can banging, the issue was that MLB issued a warning against electronically stealing signs in September of 2017, the Astros kept doing it anyway. Then, they worked with MLB on moving their replay equipment in 2018, kept stealing signs anyway, just without the trash can banging. The trash can banging is only part of the issue, the other part is they were warned to stop what they were doing, and kept doing it anyway. 

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37 minutes ago, Dodger said:

 

 

The real issue isn't even the trash can banging, the issue was that MLB issued a warning against electronically stealing signs in September of 2017, the Astros kept doing it anyway. Then, they worked with MLB on moving their replay equipment in 2018, kept stealing signs anyway, just without the trash can banging. The trash can banging is only part of the issue, the other part is they were warned to stop what they were doing, and kept doing it anyway. 


The trash can camera cheating is the whole issue. There would be no punishment if it weren’t for the trash can camera cheating. Manfred was happy to move on from the electronic sign stealing shenanigans with their new protections in place until Mike Fiers went on the record about the trash can camera scheme. MLB already knew something about the can system in 2018 at the latest when Jeff Passan wrote about it from anonymous sources. If MLB were going to start handing out year long bans for teams using replay room video sign decoding in 2018, there are at least 12 teams that have been directly accused by former players of doing so that season which is after the Manfred memo went out. They aren’t going to do that and will limit this to the Astros and Alex Cora.

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the braves guy got banned for life for some international player shit this is so much worse lol. anything other than stripping them of their wins including the world series is weak af

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One thing I haven't seen clarification on, the Astros got a comp pick for Gerritt Cole that would be at the end of the first round. Are they keeping that pick or does the penalty wipe out that draft pick too?

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10 minutes ago, Dodger said:

One thing I haven't seen clarification on, the Astros got a comp pick for Gerritt Cole that would be at the end of the first round. Are they keeping that pick or does the penalty wipe out that draft pick too?

The penalty specifically lists the “regular” draft picks as being forfeit, so compensatory picks would not be lost.

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1 hour ago, sblfilms said:


I’m endlessly amused by how much Dodgers and Giants fans hate each other :lol:


I pretty much just had this conversation with a coworker (I’m a Giants fan).

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Alex Cora, Red Sox mutually agree to part ways

Quote

"We agreed today that parting ways was the best thing for the organization," Cora said in Tuesday's statement. "I do not want to be a distraction to the Red Sox as they move forward. My two years as manager were the best years of my life. It was an honor to manage these teams and help bring a World Series Championship back to Boston."

 

 

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2 hours ago, ManUtdRedDevils said:

Shame that the two biggest cheats in baseball aren’t getting a bigger punishment. 
 

Fuck the pos Sox and Astros 

 

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The Yankees cheated in exactly the same fashion as the Red Sox. Dodgers too. The Astros are the only team, as far as we currently know, that went the extra step of the live feed.

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2 hours ago, sblfilms said:

The Yankees cheated in exactly the same fashion as the Red Sox. Dodgers too. The Astros are the only team, as far as we currently know, that went the extra step of the live feed.

Link to Dodgers cheating?

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4 hours ago, rc0101 said:

Link to Dodgers cheating?

He’s lashing out right now. Texans blow a 24 point lead and lose to the Chiefs. Watson wants Bill back. Everyone thinks Astros should lose their WS title. 

 

Dodgers and Yankees were both screwed by the cheating. Yanks called them out on it in the playoffs and we got smug Hinch responding that it is nonsense. 
 

“And then when I get contacted about some questions about whistling, it made me laugh because it’s ridiculous. And had I known that it would take something like that to set off the Yankees or any other team, we would have practiced it in spring training,” he added. “It apparently works, even when it doesn’t happen.”

 

lying harry potter GIF

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7 hours ago, rc0101 said:

Link to Dodgers cheating?

Replay room sign stealing allegations have been made for literally years now, and Dodgers are on the list of those who have been named by anonymous players. It’s been all over baseball Twitter. This is what people were referring to when the Fiers fueled Athletic story first broke and electronic sign stealing as a “pervasive problem” was put out. It’s also why Manfred put MLB employees in the replay rooms, because it was happening in virtually every city. 

 

3 hours ago, ManUtdRedDevils said:

He’s lashing out right now. Texans blow a 24 point lead and lose to the Chiefs. Watson wants Bill back. Everyone thinks Astros should lose their WS title. 

 

Dodgers and Yankees were both screwed by the cheating. Yanks called them out on it in the playoffs and we got smug Hinch responding that it is nonsense. 
 

“And then when I get contacted about some questions about whistling, it made me laugh because it’s ridiculous. And had I known that it would take something like that to set off the Yankees or any other team, we would have practiced it in spring training,” he added. “It apparently works, even when it doesn’t happen.”

 

lying harry potter GIF

LOL. The Yankees scored less than 1 run per game in 4 games of the ALCS in 2017 at Minute Maid. Not sure how sign stealing hurts the Yankees offense.
 

The 2019 ALCS didn’t include any illegal sign stealing, but the Yankees paranoia did get the best of them and Hinch trolled them and their fans hard :lol:


Will be even funnier when the Astros beat the Yankees in the ALCS this year. What will be their excuse this time

 :hmm:

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1 hour ago, rc0101 said:

Ah so rumors but nothing from MLB or credible reporting... Cool cool cool

In addition to literally years of beat reporters talking about what they’ve heard from players and executives, Logan Morrison said it on his own Instagram like 3 days ago. This is not some big secret. Manfred was fine to let it all go until Fiers went on the record. Manfred was fine to stop with just the Astros until it became clear that Alex Cora was at the center of it and continued using illegal methods when he went to Boston. The Athletic article where Fiers blew the whole thing up makes it abundantly clear that video replay room sign stealing was prevalent, reporting from Jeff Passan and Buster Olney agree that it was prevalent. And you have MLB players explicitly listing the Dodgers as a team that did it.

 

This is like denying your favorite player in the 90s did steroids just because you don’t have a positive test to prove it :p 

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3 hours ago, sblfilms said:

Replay room sign stealing allegations have been made for literally years now, and Dodgers are on the list of those who have been named by anonymous players. It’s been all over baseball Twitter. This is what people were referring to when the Fiers fueled Athletic story first broke and electronic sign stealing as a “pervasive problem” was put out. It’s also why Manfred put MLB employees in the replay rooms, because it was happening in virtually every city. 

 

LOL. The Yankees scored less than 1 run per game in 4 games of the ALCS in 2017 at Minute Maid. Not sure how sign stealing hurts the Yankees offense.
 

The 2019 ALCS didn’t include any illegal sign stealing, but the Yankees paranoia did get the best of them and Hinch trolled them and their fans hard :lol:


Will be even funnier when the Astros beat the Yankees in the ALCS this year. What will be their excuse this time

 :hmm:

Wow the smugness is a disease. 

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42 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

In addition to literally years of beat reporters talking about what they’ve heard from players and executives, Logan Morrison said it on his own Instagram like 3 days ago. This is not some big secret. Manfred was fine to let it all go until Fiers went on the record. Manfred was fine to stop with just the Astros until it became clear that Alex Cora was at the center of it and continued using illegal methods when he went to Boston. The Athletic article where Fiers blew the whole thing up makes it abundantly clear that video replay room sign stealing was prevalent, reporting from Jeff Passan and Buster Olney agree that it was prevalent. And you have MLB players explicitly listing the Dodgers as a team that did it.

 

This is like denying your favorite player in the 90s did steroids just because you don’t have a positive test to prove it :p 

Yeah get back to me when there is an actual report or statement from MLB. 

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8 minutes ago, rc0101 said:

Yeah get back to me when there is an actual report or statement from MLB. 

 

On 11/22/2019 at 10:25 AM, rc0101 said:

It’s proven. Saying otherwise is a joke

 

How quickly one changes their tune...

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5 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

 

 

How quickly one changes their tune...

And there was credible reports saying just that. And it turned out true. Not to mention hours upon hours of video of trash cans being banged all over YouTube. 

 

2017 Dodgers had virtually identical home and away splits.

 

 Please never serve on a jury 

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1 minute ago, rc0101 said:

And there was credible reports saying just that. And it turned out true.

 

2017 Dodgers had virtually identical home and away splits.

 

 Please never serve on a jury 

You just said you would need an MLB statement/report to accept it, but you didn’t use that standard with the Astros. Just pointing out the inconsistency of your position :) 

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