Star Wars: X-Wing Second Edition -- Official Thread

[AbsolutSurgen]

12 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

3 years is the average for most wargames now. 

I haven't played Warhammer - but I know it is a fundamentally different game than X-Wing.

There is still a fair amount of community angst around the launch of 2.0 in the X-Wing community.

That release not only changed all of the rules, but required players to get new damage decks, replace all of their cards, replace all of their dials, replace all of their ship tokens, and all of their regular tokens.  So if you were in for a $40 core set, plus a $50 conversion kit per faction (multiple if you were an Epic player), plus a $30 Huge ship conversion kit, plus a $25 new Epic core set, plus $30 conversion kits for the sub-factions that became factions.  I know folks who were in for $300+ to move from 1.0 to 2.0.

 

With 2.0, FFG/AMG are able to update points online (and do so every 6-months or so), have a curated format where they change the eligible ships/pilots every 6-12 months, they have been able to add a number of new mechanics in expansion packs (i.e. Strain and Deplete), and update the rules every 6-months with an online rules FAQ.

That, and as X-Wing is as much a card game as a minis-game -- regular releases of new upgrade/pilot cards keeps the game fresh.

For all of those reasons, and also that the game doesn't currently suffer from the balancing issues that 1.0 had at the end, means it doesn't really need a new version at the moment.

[Kal-El814]

X-Wing needed a second edition because 1st ed was bloated and the distribution model for cards / upgrades was fundamentally flawed. I know lots of people who bought a $100 ship so they could get the Palpatine cardboard, which was always ridiculous. 2nd edition isn’t perfect but I don’t know that the issues couldn’t be ironed out with app updates / errata.

 

1st ed was out for what, 6 years? X-Wing isn’t GW, I don’t think there’s enough new content nor a rules critical mass to justify a change at this point.

[BloodyHell]

3 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I haven't played Warhammer - but I know it is a fundamentally different game than X-Wing.

There is still a fair amount of community angst around the launch of 2.0 in the X-Wing community.

That release not only changed all of the rules, but required players to get new damage decks, replace all of their cards, replace all of their dials, replace all of their ship tokens, and all of their regular tokens.  So if you were in for a $40 core set, plus a $50 conversion kit per faction (multiple if you were an Epic player), plus a $30 Huge ship conversion kit, plus a $25 new Epic core set, plus $30 conversion kits for the sub-factions that became factions.  I know folks who were in for $300+ to move from 1.0 to 2.0.

 

With 2.0, FFG/AMG are able to update points online (and do so every 6-months or so), have a curated format where they change the eligible ships/pilots every 6-12 months, they have been able to add a number of new mechanics in expansion packs (i.e. Strain and Deplete), and update the rules every 6-months with an online rules FAQ.

That, and as X-Wing is as much a card game as a minis-game -- regular releases of new upgrade/pilot cards keeps the game fresh.

For all of those reasons, and also that the game doesn't currently suffer from the balancing issues that 1.0 had at the end, means it doesn't really need a new version at the moment.

Oh, its not just warhammer. The average is 3-4 years per edition for tabletop games. Including FFG games (I own their Batman game as well).

Im not saying they will do it, but its probable considering the past practices of the industry and ffg.

 

Also, angry fans are the norm with every new edition of every game.

[Kal-El814]

FFG fans are bent out of shape that the new Descent isn’t compatible with 1st ed, which came out 16 years before the version that’s coming out on Friday. I’ve played Descent 1st and 2nd ed, I get being invested in content and seeing support for a title end, but 16 years is an eternity and the 1st ed models look like absolute ass next to FFG’s current mini production.

 

For X-wing, I assume the biggest challenge is going to be new content. There just aren’t enough new ships in Mando and The Bad Batch to keep making stuff. Assuming they can maintain interest until new media comes, they’ll be okay. The sculpts right now are better than ever and something like the Razor Crest would make them a mint. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

RIP in Peace, Armada.

 

[BloodyHell]

13 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

RIP in Peace, Armada.

 

Oh wow. I thought all the SW games were Fantasy Flight 

Im not at all shocked by this. The only hype I see for SW is Legion right now. Those Armada sculpts are actually beautiful, but they aren't selling at my local shops. Legion and Battletech are gaining some popularity. X-wing I don't see being played at all right now. 

 

Sad to see this happening right now.

The Batman game has moved over to Kickstarter to try and keep it going. 

 

It's a rough time for games that aren't Kickstarter. Outside of skirmish games, I don't stray too far from GW, because ive been burned too many times by games with short lifespans. I think Legion will continue to do fine. I do want the new heman tabletop game.

 

I would love to see a Wheel of Time tabletop game, with the show coming down the pipeline. There is a game with many large armies and a great magic system ripe for a fantasy miniatures game. 

Then again, I said that with Middle-Earth, and have multiple armies, and only my son and his friend to play with. With my armies, and they all moved on to college.

 

The only non WH game thats thriving here is Flames of War.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 hour ago, BloodyHell said:

Oh wow. I thought all the SW games were Fantasy Flight 

 

 

Armada, Legion, and X-Wing were transferred from FFG to AMG late last year.  FFG and AMG are both owned by the same parent company.

 

Atomic Mass Games to take over Star Wars Miniatures from Fantasy Flight Games - Fantha Tracks

WWW.FANTHATRACKS.COM

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Atomic Mass Games take over Star Wars Miniatures production from Fantasy Flight Games.

 

[Kal-El814]

The Armada news is a bit weird; they just came out w/new factions. I thought they'd at least get to ship count parity with them. I don't think Armada has been a huge seller for them, but AFAIK it has been consistent. I suspect Atomic Mass Games can't keep up with Legion, X-Wing, Armada, and Crisis Protocol especially when talent has been let go.

[AbsolutSurgen]

22 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

The Armada news is a bit weird; they just came out w/new factions. I thought they'd at least get to ship count parity with them. I don't think Armada has been a huge seller for them, but AFAIK it has been consistent. I suspect Atomic Mass Games can't keep up with Legion, X-Wing, Armada, and Crisis Protocol especially when talent has been let go.

I think its pretty clear that no development work has been done on Armada by AMG.  My guess is that they were waiting for the last wave to release to announce what had been decided last year.  It's pretty clear that Luke Eddy was continuing Legion development at AMG, but it's unclear if they were doing much of anything on X-Wing.

Time will tell.

FWIW, my LGS seems to be selling a fair bit of X-Wing ATM. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

 

 

[Kal-El814]

21 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

 

 

 

Came here to post this. I really only fly Empire since 2nd ed, but will I buy this? Yes.

[Kal-El814]

Also I hope this means the rumored Mando expansion to Outer Rim is on its way.

[AbsolutSurgen]

2 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

Came here to post this. I really only fly Empire since 2nd ed, but will I buy this? Yes.

I'm not a Scum player either.  But...  My son will likely have one under the tree this Xmas.

[AbsolutSurgen]

 

Reminder that Ministravaganza starts today.  X-Wing panel at 7pm EDT.

@Kal-El814

[Kal-El814]

The chat is melting down and I am here for all of it.

[AbsolutSurgen]

Twitch

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[Kal-El814]

Sodium aside I think lowering the barrier of entry for OP is the right call. Stuff like the bidding system is impenetrable to new players and without an infusion of them the game will just be Armada and die on the vine.

[AbsolutSurgen]

49 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

Sodium aside I think lowering the barrier of entry for OP is the right call. Stuff like the bidding system is impenetrable to new players and without an infusion of them the game will just be Armada and die on the vine.

Yes and No.

12 turns causes a problem with fortressing -- you can gain a big advantage by avoiding moving.  And 12-turns is longer than the average game.

Bids are huge if you are an ace player (and I am).  It really changes the list-building dynamics, because if you are an ace player, you will have an advantage against non-Ace players because you will no longer be nerfing your list

[AbsolutSurgen]

 

@Commissar SFLUFAN You want this ship.

[AbsolutSurgen]

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Discussion of tonight's reveals.

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Yes and No.

12 turns causes a problem with fortressing -- you can gain a big advantage by avoiding moving.  And 12-turns is longer than the average game.

Bids are huge if you are an ace player (and I am).  It really changes the list-building dynamics, because if you are an ace player, you will have an advantage against non-Ace players because you will no longer be nerfing your list

There are some big changes to the game coming out of this stream:

1) Ace players (like me) are used to big bids -- bids will no longer have any impact

2)  Banning/Restricting cards will be a HUGE change to the meta

3)  12-turns will have a huge change on tournaments -- they have to figure out how to handle swarms

[BloodyHell]

12 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Yes and No.

12 turns causes a problem with fortressing -- you can gain a big advantage by avoiding moving.  And 12-turns is longer than the average game.

Bids are huge if you are an ace player (and I am).  It really changes the list-building dynamics, because if you are an ace player, you will have an advantage against non-Ace players because you will no longer be nerfing your list

So force movement. Its simple enough. Warhammer has plenty of flying units, where movement is 20-60" for example. They have to move at least 20 inches per round. 

Seems like this is a very easy way around it. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ summon points

 

New meta incoming!  Going out to pick up 2 Fury of the First Order squad packs.

This point change made lots of changes to slots (i.e. which upgrades can be put on which lists) and increased a number of ship's points.  A bunch of less used ships and upgrades were given points reductions.  The most popular lists in the existing meta are no longer viable.

[AbsolutSurgen]

Thinking about trying this list out tomorrow.

 

"Whirlwind" (47)    
    Deadeye Shot (1)    
    Marksmanship (1)    
    Advanced Optics (5)    
    Enhanced Jamming Suite (0)    
    
Ship total: 54  Half Points: 27  Threshold: 3    
    
Kylo Ren (TIE Whisper) (63)    
    Malice (6)    
    Marksmanship (1)    
    Sensor Scramblers (1)    
    Enhanced Jamming Suite (0)    
    
Ship total: 71  Half Points: 36  Threshold: 3    
    
Lieutenant Tavson (64)    
    Sensor Buoy Suite (4)    
    Biohexacrypt Codes (1)    
    GNK "Gonk" Droid (5)    
    Delayed Fuses (1)    
    
Ship total: 75  Half Points: 38  Threshold: 6    
    
    
Total: 200    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0:

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Relatedly, it appears that the venture capital firm that owns the Asmodee parent company is exploring a possible sale.

 

Tabletop Giant Asmodee Reportedly Up For Sale For 2 Billion Euros

TECHRAPTOR.NET

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Tabletop titan Asmodee is reportedly to be sold by its owner, venture capital company PAI Partners, for a staggering reported figure of 2 billion euros.

 

[BloodyHell]

On 9/24/2021 at 8:24 PM, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Relatedly, it appears that the venture capital firm that owns the Asmodee parent company is exploring a possible sale.

 

Tabletop Giant Asmodee Reportedly Up For Sale For 2 Billion Euros

TECHRAPTOR.NET

---

Tabletop titan Asmodee is reportedly to be sold by its owner, venture capital company PAI Partners, for a staggering reported figure of 2 billion euros.

 

Seems like it might not be the easiest business to sell in modern day. 

 

I just GW doesn't try to get their grubby fingers on it. Last thing we need is less competition.

[AbsolutSurgen]

If anyone is interested.  Big tournament going on all weekend.

GoldSquadronPodcast - Twitch

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Hoth Galactic Championship Qualifier - Day 1

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

Seems like such a small change. SO MANY ANGRY PEOPLE!

 

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

On 10/29/2021 at 6:52 PM, AbsolutSurgen said:

Seems like such a small change. SO MANY ANGRY PEOPLE!

 

 

 

Crabbok addressed this on his channel:

 

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

11 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

Crabbok addressed this on his channel:

 

 

Crabbok is a super-casual player of X-Wing (and I am not sure he even really plays it) -- so his opinions need to be viewed through that lens.

GSP has some pretty successful tourney players in this conversation -- starting at about the 58:00 minute mark (the discussion before that was less on the mechanics, and focused on the communications/community response).  I'm listening to it now.

 

I played a game of ROAD with my son on Sunday, where we had overlapping initiative.  And while it DID impact the game, and my decision-making had to change -- it was much better than being stuck with the old bid system where being the second player (and moving last) has a 20-30% advantage in win rate.  I need to play a bunch more games to better form my own opinion, but I am not sure I feel the sky is falling.

[AbsolutSurgen]

AMG is making significant changes to X-Wing:

• Adding Scenario Play as the default gametype (essentially the X-Wing version of FPS gamemodes like CTF and Zone domination)
• Changing obstacle rules to make hitting them more punishing
• Significantly changing the rules on ships bumping each other

 

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

New Wave coming in February:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kal-El814]

Well I'm getting Moff Gideon for sure since I mainly fly Imp. But I'm not going to be able to resist the Razor Crest.

[AbsolutSurgen]

21 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

Well I'm getting Moff Gideon for sure since I mainly fly Imp. But I'm not going to be able to resist the Razor Crest.

I'm getting the Gauntlet as well -- I can use it in FO, Empire and Rebel (the three factions I fly).

I'll also be getting the Pride of Mandalore pack -- not just for Moff/Jingoists, but also so I can run some Rebel Fang Fighters...

[AbsolutSurgen]

X-Wing 2.5 officially was released a couple of weeks ago:

1)  Scenario Play has been added -- 4 Scenarios have been added

2)  List Building has been fundamentally changed -- upgrades and pilots now use a separate pool of points

3)  ROAD (Random Order After Dials) has been implemented to replace the bid system for deciding first player

4)  Obstacles have been made more punishing

5) "Bumping rules"  (i.e. when ships collide) has been reworked.  Penalizing you more if you bump a friendly ship.  But allowing attacks, and a "red focus" if you bump an enemy

 

The 2.5 ruleset has been somewhat controversial -- with many high-level players upset.  The game now favours higher-ship-count lists, named pilots ilo generics and more aggressive play.  IMHO, the changes aren't necessarily all bad -- but I think they need to do some balancing on some of the scenarios to deemphasize the scenario points.