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Update: DoD and Iraqi officials believe Ukrainian airliner was accidentally shot down by Iranian Tor M-1 SAM


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11 minutes ago, CayceG said:

Timing is the only thing that's "suspicious" about this. And it's only that because our brains cannot fathom that many many shitty things can happen simultaneously in one place on the planet. 

 

 

See, you're the one taking a side here, not me. You're 100% sure right now that mechanical failure brought the plane down.

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2 minutes ago, Jose said:

 

See, you're the one taking a side here, not me. You're 100% sure right now that mechanical failure brought the plane down.

 

If you read my posts more carefully, you would see that I am insisting that there is no proof that the plane was shot down. I am not definitively saying what DID bring the plane down. 

 

It could have been shot down! But there is no proof to support that, and people being weird and scared and saying "what if" just isn't reasonable without that proof. 

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2 minutes ago, CayceG said:

 

If you read my posts more carefully, you would see that I am insisting that there is no proof that the plane was shot down. I am not definitively saying what DID bring the plane down. 

 

It could have been shot down! But there is no proof to support that, and people being weird and scared and saying "what if" just isn't reasonable without that proof. 

You said  "Timing is the only thing that's "suspicious" about this."

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18 minutes ago, CayceG said:

Timing is the only thing that's "suspicious" about this. And it's only that because our brains cannot fathom that many many shitty things can happen simultaneously in one place on the planet. 

 

This level of coinciding tragedy happens every day at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue! :fedora:

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If I really wanted to stake a position, I'd be shitting all over Boeing because ANOTHER catastrophic 737 mechanical issue would spell doom for the product line. Boeing execs might even be hoping that it WAS shot down just to save their profits!

 

 

EDIT: That one link on the last page just doesn't point to anything concrete. Those "aviation experts" aren't making legitimate conclusions. 

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This was obviously an American op intended to implicate Iran in the murder of citizens of NATO allies, thus garnering support for future escalation. An EMP was used to knock out power so that the pilots couldn't communicate that they were taking fire from an F-35. Without power the 737 was unable to safely land with one engine. (I don't believe any of this, but I'll watch the movie if Harrison Ford is in it)

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20 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

Would it be fair to assume that if there was a mechanical failure of some kind, the crew would have alerted air traffic control before the flight went down? 

 

Data from the airplane stopped abruptly, about 6 minutes after takeoff, and there were no communications from the pilots after this.  Experts say this was probably due to power being diverted from the transmitters.  The mechanical would have had to have been "catastrophic" (according to former pilot and TSB accident investigator Larry Vance) as the plane has "lots of sources and lots of backups" for power.

Video shows this plane a as a fireball, crashing to the ground, leaving a dispersed debris field with no large pieces of fuselage intact.  Experts have said that this is inconsistent with a plane that crashed into the ground, but rather one that had broken up in midair.

There are no incidents on record of a 737-Next Generation plane EVER exploding midair due to a mechanical failure.

 

Something caused this plane to suddenly lose power and explode.  It clearly could have been a mechanical failure that caused the jet fuel to ignite.  It also could have been a missile, or a bomb in the cargo hold, or anti-aircraft fire.

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1 minute ago, CayceG said:

It also underwent maintenance literally before it took off. 

 

So the maintenance tasks could have been screwed up and contributed to the crash. 

 

Lots of things could have happened.

Which, is why I said it looks suspicious.  (You'll also note that I haven't linked to any of the photos of missile parts, "fuselage shrapnel evidence", or engine breakdowns demonstrating being hit by a missile -- because not of it comes from a reputable source.)

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1 minute ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

(You'll also note that I haven't linked to any of the photos of missile parts, "fuselage shrapnel evidence", or engine breakdowns demonstrating being hit by a missile -- because not of it comes from a reputable source.)

 

Then you deserve commendation for that. 

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7 hours ago, CayceG said:

 

If you read my posts more carefully, you would see that I am insisting that there is no proof that the plane was shot down. I am not definitively saying what DID bring the plane down. 

 

It could have been shot down! But there is no proof to support that, and people being weird and scared and saying "what if" just isn't reasonable without that proof. 

 

If you had read my posts, then you wouldn't have demanded evidence the plane was shot down when I never said the plane was shot down.

 

Also, blaming Boeing for this is absolute stupidity. The 737 NG is one of the safest planes ever to fly.

 

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DoD and Iraqi intelligence officials believe the aircraft was accidentally brought down by an Iranian Tor M-1 SAM

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The Ukrainian flight that crashed just outside the Iranian capital of Tehran was struck by an anti-aircraft missile system, a Pentagon official, a senior U.S. intelligence official and an Iraqi intelligence official told Newsweek

 

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If they are going off what's floating around the internet, then that's not necessarily proof. 

 

These are the only pictures of the missile part:

 

 

1. It is definitely a Tor missile. This is not in dispute.

2. These photographs provide no clues on where these photos were taken. There's no background that can be used to geolocate them. 

3. The source of the photos come from Telegram, a platform that scrubs metadata from the photos. So there's no way to identify where they were taken or uploaded. 

4. This could all be true and we're just missing the pieces to fully piece it together. 

 

But unless these Pentagon and Iraqi officials have evidence that isn't out in the public yet, I remain skeptical due to the lack of a "smoking gun". 

 

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20 hours ago, CayceG said:

If I really wanted to stake a position, I'd be shitting all over Boeing because ANOTHER catastrophic 737 mechanical issue would spell doom for the product line. Boeing execs might even be hoping that it WAS shot down just to save their profits!

 

 

EDIT: That one link on the last page just doesn't point to anything concrete. Those "aviation experts" aren't making legitimate conclusions. 

 

Deeerrrrrrrrrrrrrp.

 

Ok I got that out of my system. I'm done.

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It’s funny when something suspicious happens and somebody tries to be the voice of reason acting like the circumstances aren’t suspicious and it turns out it was the worst case scenario.

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1 minute ago, sblfilms said:

It’s funny when something suspicious happens and somebody tries to be the voice of reason acting like the circumstances aren’t suspicious and it turns out it was the worst case scenario.

 

Honestly, conspiracy theorists annoy me just as much as they do Cayce, but I think as a response we often have a tendency to go too far to the other side and dismiss all possibilities in a situation.

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1 minute ago, Amazatron said:

I mean, there’s “let’s not jump to conclusions” and then there’s what CayceG did...

 

Just now, Jose said:

 

Honestly, conspiracy theorists annoy me just as much as they do Cayce, but I think as a response we often have a tendency to go too far to the other side and dismiss all possibilities in a situation.


For sure. Just giving our guy a hard time for going a little overboard :p 

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Trump got these people killed.

 

He started this. The situation developed out of something he caused. It may have been an Iranian missile, but Trump and his warhawk generals are to blame for these deaths. Without killing Soleimani, this would not have happened.

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29 minutes ago, CayceG said:

Trump got these people killed.

 

He started this. The situation developed out of something he caused. It may have been an Iranian missile, but Trump and his warhawk generals are to blame for these deaths. Without killing Soleimani, this would not have happened.

The Iranians allowing civilian air traffic to fly while launching missiles and anticipating the possibility of counter attacks by the US is actually what caused this. 

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