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Xbox Series X | S OT - Power Your Dreams, update: FTC case unredacted documents leaked, including XSX mid-generation refresh, new gyro/haptic-enabled controller, and next-generation plans for 2028


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8 hours ago, JPDunks4 said:

 

Well this guy started a shit storm on Twitter.


I certainly don’t doubt the CPU power and GPU scalability angle.

 

But bragging that a 4 TFLOP GPU “supports raytracing“ sounds so oblivious.  No one should be surprised if a vanilla 2060 runs circles around it.  Or even a Switch successor.

 

My aging 1060 6GB technically supports raytracing too, lol.  Except when games disable the option, because they won’t let me be so bold and stupid.

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Anyone can do what they want with their money and/or time (I wasn't trying to tell anyone what to do, go buy whatever you like!), but my original logic remains ironclad. That would be like a serious road cyclist (as opposed to "serious gamer") cycling with a mountain bike. Like, yeah, you can do it that way, but why? Either you have a good reason or you're being illogical. You can be illogical, whatever, that's fine, but you are. If you have a good reason, okay, sorry to hear that.

 

I wasn't trying to stir up anything. I feel the same way about the PS5 and Switch, and I said as much in the PS5 thread that the only question to be asked is: "do they have enough exclusives to justify a PS5 purchase for me?" and "will their first party games come to PC eventually anyway so can I just wait and save the money?" Since Sony has begun hinting at that. With XSX, both questions are moot, so the answers are more clearcut. I wasn't even aware of what I was saying could even be considered controversial.

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15 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

@Greatoneshere
 

Someone might choose to buy both Sony and Microsoft consoles instead of a Playstation and a PC.  What they’ll mainly miss out on are earlier access to indies and more VR titles.

 

That’s not enough of a difference to say the former is less of an ‘enthusiast’ than the latter.

 

I'm saying if one is seriously into something, if you can, you get the best. I'm saying the differences are incalculable to me, having switched over a few years ago. The difference in cost is negligible when thinking long term. Even if you own both an XSX and a PS5 you'd be missing out on PC exclusive titles as well as getting less games overall (PC goes back decades in terms of game selection), you can't emulate, and PC's do a lot more than just play games so they have other benefits as well.

 

There's just no reason not to get the best in this kind of situation, and yes, I think it's a mystifying choice to get less than the best if you can get the best. That seems pretty logical to me, and that's all I'm trying to point out. A gamer can have as much enthusiasm as they like, but if they could get a powerhouse PC but instead get an XSX I'd wonder why they're doing that, genuinely. If they can't get a powerhouse PC, for whatever reason, that's understandable, and you do what you can to game then, of course, I think that goes without saying.

 

If someone says they're an audiophile, and they have amazing speakers, and someone else says they're an audiophile, but they have noticeably worse speakers, yeah, I'm going to think the first guy is more serious about his hobby. It's not perfectly analogous because here the difference in price is actually far more negligible than with speakers so it makes even more sense with gaming. And like I said, this is in an example where the second guy could get the speakers the first guy has but just . . . doesn't get them and gets the worse ones. This is not a situation where he can't afford the nicer ones, that's one of the good reasons I was mentioning earlier.

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5 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I'm saying if one is seriously into something, if you can, you get the best. I'm saying the differences are incalculable to me, having switched over a few years ago. The difference in cost is negligible when thinking long term. Even if you own both an XSX and a PS5 you'd be missing out on PC exclusive titles as well as getting less games overall (PC goes back decades in terms of game selection), you can't emulate, and PC's do a lot more than just play games so they have other benefits as well.

 

There's just no reason not to get the best in this kind of situation, and yes, I think it's a mystifying choice to go less than the best if you can get the best. That seems pretty logical to me, and that's all I'm trying to point out. A gamer can have as much enthusiasm as they like, but if they could get a powerhouse PC but instead get an XSX I'd wonder why they're doing that. 

 

Gaming PCs still have more fussing about them. It's a shit ton better than it used to be, but you do have to put in more work at times. Console GUIs are also better suited for TVs than PCs.

 

I think the advantages vastly outweigh those limitations, but for some people those facets matter a lot.

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49 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

Anyone can do what they want with their money and/or time (I wasn't trying to tell anyone what to do, go buy whatever you like!), but my original logic remains ironclad. That would be like a serious road cyclist (as opposed to "serious gamer") cycling with a mountain bike. Like, yeah, you can do it that way, but why? Either you have a good reason or you're being illogical. You can be illogical, whatever, that's fine, but you are. If you have a good reason, okay, sorry to hear that.

 

I didn't know you were so into biking. :thinking:

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11 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I'm saying if one is seriously into something, if you can, you get the best. I'm saying the differences are incalculable to me, having switched over a few years ago. The difference in cost is negligible when thinking long term. Even if you own both an XSX and a PS5 you'd be missing out on PC exclusive titles as well as getting less games overall (PC goes back decades in terms of game selection), you can't emulate, and PC's do a lot more than just play games so they have other benefits as well.

 

There's just no reason not to get the best in this kind of situation, and yes, I think it's a mystifying choice to go less than the best if you can get the best. That seems pretty logical to me.


Enthusiasts aren’t always concerned with getting the best, most compatible, or most complete.

 

We had several people on this forum saying they bought multiple Xbox one’s to go with every TV in their house (or even a relative’s!).

 

Who am I to say that’s not an enthusiast?  It doesn’t matter if I personally think the reasoning behind it is oddball.

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8 minutes ago, legend said:

 

Gaming PCs still have more fussing about them. It's a shit ton better than it used to be, but you do have to put in more work at times. Console GUIs are also better suited for TVs than PCs.

 

I think the advantages vastly outweigh those limitations, but for some people those facets matter a lot.

 

I totally agree with you and I take your point but to me it's not "I think". The advantages do objectively outweigh the limitations. "Fuss"? "More work"? We're gamers. This is our hobby. That's what I originally meant by "serious gamer" that everyone else seems to have taken defensively because some are apparently insecure towards logic. They're just computers. Learn. If someone isn't willing to put in some work and thinks those kinds of reasons are enough to stop them in this hobby, then yeah, I think that's less enthusiasm. And that's what I'm calling out, lazy hobbyists. :p 

 

6 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

Enthusiasts aren’t always concerned with getting the best, most compatible, or most complete.

 

We had several people on this forum saying they bought multiple Xbox one’s to go with every TV in their house (or even a relative’s!).

 

Who am I to say that’s not an enthusiast?  It doesn’t matter if I personally think the reasoning behind it is nutty.

 

Well, I'm giving my opinion, and I'm saying that person is a less of an enthusiast because the reasoning is nutty. They can continue to go do whatever they want to do, but I can still say and think what I do about it. Lazy hobbyists are a thing, and I do think that means less enthusiasm or "less serious". Otherwise wouldn't their reasoning make sense? I'd be doing what they're doing if it was better but I'm not because it isn't. 

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8 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

Well, I'm giving my opinion, and I'm saying that person is a less of an enthusiast because the reasoning is nutty. They can continue to go do whatever they want to do, but I can still say and think what I do about it.


Do you think retro game collectors are less of enthusiasts because PC emulators exist?

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28 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:


Enthusiasts aren’t always concerned with getting the best, most compatible, or most complete.

 

We had several people on this forum saying they bought multiple Xbox one’s to go with every TV in their house (or even a relative’s!).

 

Who am I to say that’s not an enthusiast?  It doesn’t matter if I personally think the reasoning behind it is oddball.

There's this.. group called "Friends and Family" that some homo sapiens belong to. These beings are real life, flesh and blood creatures that we interact with everyday as opposed to the ones that exist in the internet and on screens and yes, some of those people play games. So it makes sense to have multiple machines especially when you come from a rather large family like myself with siblings, cousins, nieces and nephews who all want to game at the same time. For instance I'm playing my PS4 now, my nephew is upstairs playing The Switch and another nephew is playing Fortnite on you guessed it, another PS4. I don't even have kids of my own and multiple machines are nice to have. So would you suggest that we buy multiple gaming PC's in a house full of gamers?

 

We DID buy one of nephews a gaming laptop for graduating high school this year so at least HE will achieve the status of "Serious Gamer" or "Enthusiast" or whatever jargon we're tossing out to make ourselves feel superior today. 

 

19 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:


Do you think retro game collectors are less of enthusiasts because PC emulators exist?

 

 

Clearly people who only collect physical comics aren't real comic collectors because digital comics exist... get with the program yo.

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23 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I totally agree with you and I take your point but to me it's not "I think". The advantages do objectively outweigh the limitations. "Fuss"? "More work"? We're gamers. This is our hobby. That's what I originally meant by "serious gamer" that everyone else seems to have taken defensively because some are apparently insecure towards logic. They're just computers. Learn. If someone isn't willing to put in some work and thinks those kinds of reasons are enough to stop them in this hobby, then yeah, I think that's less enthusiasm. And that's what I'm calling out, lazy hobbyists. :p 

 

 

Well, I'm giving my opinion, and I'm saying that person is a less of an enthusiast because the reasoning is nutty. They can continue to go do whatever they want to do, but I can still say and think what I do about it. Lazy hobbyists are a thing, and I do think that means less enthusiasm or "less serious". Otherwise wouldn't their reasoning make sense? I'd be doing what they're doing if it was better but I'm not because it isn't. 


People aren’t insecure by logic, they’re just offended by stupid logic. And this is a stupid take so....

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33 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

I totally agree with you and I take your point but to me it's not "I think". The advantages do objectively outweigh the limitations. "Fuss"? "More work"? We're gamers. This is our hobby. They're just computers. Learn. If someone isn't willing to put in some work and think those kinds of reasons are enough to stop me in this hobby, then yeah, I think that's less enthusiasm. And that's what I'm calling out, lazy hobbyists. :p

I'd probably go more towards entry level hobbyists rather than lazy.

 

I had this conundrum years ago when I was trying to get into landscape astrophotography and buy a decent bike to ride to work everyday.

I had about a $500 limit for a decent bike and my biking coworker urged me to spend more and that I would get so much more return from the bike. I'm glad I didn't because the bike I bought was exactly what I needed to be.

My photography coworker was much more level headed about it. He gave me an entry level body to shop for with a handful of lenses. Said if this becomes a much more serious you can always spend more after the fact, but people get pushed away when you throw a lot at them. Start small and get bigger. I never bought another body, I did pick up some more expensive lenses, but thats about as far as the hobby has gone.

 

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You can love the act of something and have no fucking care about the mechanical/hardware/etc side of it. I love cooking, cycling, games, and movies, but I could care less about the actual devices used to derive the enjoyment.  

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1 minute ago, ManUtdRedDevils said:

You can love the act of something and have no fucking care about the mechanical/hardware/etc side of it. I love cooking, cycling, games, and movies, but I could care less about the actual devices used to derive the enjoyment.  

 

So when you cook you don't care about the spices, meat or how long you cook it??

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3 minutes ago, ManUtdRedDevils said:

You can love the act of something and have no fucking care about the mechanical/hardware/etc side of it. I love cooking, cycling, games, and movies, but I could care less about the actual devices used to derive the enjoyment.  

Only filmmakers who use cameras that cost AT LEAST $60,000.00 are actual filmmakers despite how well their movies do or are received. Shoot an award winning film on an Iphone or DSLR Camera that costs less than 10 grand? You're just a lazy wannabe filmmaker.  You need that RED 6K yo.

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I have a bad ass PC yet my Xbox still gets the most playtime, simply because I still buy most multiplats for it. 

 

Why?

 

When I buy a game, my 3 nephews have access to it on their Xbox at home.

 

They are here visiting for 2 weeks for the 4th if July, and I have an extra Xbox here at my parents home that I can simply plug my external SSD into and game with them here.

 

I have friends sometimes visit and stay with me on weekends, and having an Xbox in the family room and office allow us to game together.  If all I had was a Gaming PC, those experiences go away.

 

PC gaming is great, but the conveniences that my Xbox gives me in sharing that gaming experience with my nephews and other family and friends is far more valuable to me than the added frames or graphical features.  If it's a game I truly love and want to play it at the best possible performance I'll also buy it on PC, but so far very few have been enough to make me do that.

 

My PC is mainly used for some competitive multiplayer games where I want the best frames and performance, which coincidentally means the game looks rather shitty cause I turn most settings down.

 

I also had a friend that tried to move to PC gaming.  He's a bit on the older and inpatient side.  He's had numerous headaches with his PC, getting errors kicking him repeatedly from games, audio issues, ect.  Trying to trouble shoot with him he's been ready to throw the thing out the window mutliple times.  He's already decided he's probably going to just go back to Xbox as the improved performance isn't worth it to him.

 

I like the improved performance from my PC, but still completely understand why so many prefer console gaming over PC.

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Just now, skillzdadirecta said:

Only filmmakers who use cameras that cost AT LEAST $60,000.00 are actual filmmakers despite who well their movies do or are received. Shot an award winning film on an Iphone or DSLR Camera that costs less than 10 grand? You're just a lazy wannabe filmmaker. 

 

I think you guys are making the wrong analogies. And talking about cameras, there are huge camera snobs out there.

 

PC gamers don't love PCs for the parts. PC gamers like peak performance. Just as Martin Scorsese could probably want to shoot his movies on a RED Digital Camera rather than a point and shoot Olympus camera because he wants his movies to look as nice as possible.

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