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Xbox Series X | S OT - Power Your Dreams, update: FTC case unredacted documents leaked, including XSX mid-generation refresh, new gyro/haptic-enabled controller, and next-generation plans for 2028

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HardAct

HardAct

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On 7/2/2020 at 5:56 PM, GeneticBlueprint said:

 

Hell yeah. I've wanted to buy a PlayStation solely for that. Now I don't have to.

Hell yea!!! This game is why I bought my PS3 solely. I don't watch baseball anymore on TV except the world series, I did play for many years through high school etc. I love this game it's easily the best baseball game ever. I admit I do not buy it every year anymore, or even every 3 years. I got MLB19 as part of the PSPlus and it's great. Good news, love to have it on PC!

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Spawn_of_Apathy

Spawn_of_Apathy

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14 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Only issue I have with his analysis is that it's more about how the Lockhart would handle games built with the current gen as a focus.

 

The further we get into next gen, the better that question will be answered.

As long as it has the new SSD it shouldn’t hold back game development that much. Nothing some “sliders” to scale back resolution, scale back things like particle density and density of plants and such, scale back draw distance, and lock the frame rate to 30. Pretty much just set things to “low”. If the SSD wasn’t there, I think that would hinder more. 

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BloodyHell

BloodyHell

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On 7/1/2020 at 6:52 PM, XxEvil AshxX said:

 

I think the idea of anybody being "serious" about a hobby is stupid. I think the fact that there is apparently a measurement for a hobby, is stupid. It's a fuckin' hobby. People have hobbies for their enjoyment, and the only person that should decide how "serious" they are, is them. Nobody else gets an opinion.

 

If I want to mountain bike on a $89 Walmart special, and that's as much as I want to invest into it, that's up to me, and fuck all those guys with their expensive ass bikes in their little tight biking shorts with their ballsacks flopping around riding the exact same trails as me trying to get me to move out of their way like they have some sort of superiority over me just because they spent thousands of dollars more than me to do the exact same fucking thing.

Ok, but what if that hobby is skydiving, or wingsuit flying! Point is, some hobbies are very serious. Gaming not so much. 😋

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crispy4000

crispy4000

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1 hour ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

As long as it has the new SSD it shouldn’t hold back game development that much. Nothing some “sliders” to scale back resolution, scale back things like particle density and density of plants and such, scale back draw distance, and lock the frame rate to 30. Pretty much just set things to “low”. If the SSD wasn’t there, I think that would hinder more. 


Xbox One S games don’t even dial back everything to “low.”  That’s closer to the compromises Switch ports of retail XBO/PS4 games have to make.

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Spawn_of_Apathy

Spawn_of_Apathy

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13 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:


Xbox One S games don’t even dial back everything to “low.”  That’s closer to the compromises Switch ports of retail XBO/PS4 games have to make.

I wouldn’t think everything would have to be dialed back, but I’m sure a dev would have to selectively dial things back. My main point was that as long as the Lockhart has the same SSD there shouldn’t be much reason it holds back next gen game development. 

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crispy4000

crispy4000

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48 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

I wouldn’t think everything would have to be dialed back, but I’m sure a dev would have to selectively dial things back. My main point was that as long as the Lockhart has the same SSD there shouldn’t be much reason it holds back next gen game development. 


You could say the same with the CPU.  That’s a critical part too.

 

The main concern is when features like universal dynamic lighting and raytracing become a crucial component of how next-gen games look.  Devs will need to put effort towards traditional methods and low end optimization as long as the One X and S stay relevant.
 

But what happens when it becomes lower rung with low end PCs?  I don’t expect devs to put much effort into optimizing for my GTX 1060 throughout next gen.  New games will start to look like crap on it before too long.

 

If they don’t?  I guess good for Lockhart.  But it would take resources and time away to do it right.

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Duderino

Duderino

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The other big question is how mesh shaders (which I imagine UE5’s nanite relies on) will scale to Lockhart’s GPU.

 

Both the UE5 PS5 demo and performance reports from nvidia asteroids demo suggest 1440p will likely be the target for this tech on the XSX/PS5.  What quality/resolution that leaves Lockhart at, who knows.

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Dodger

Dodger

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On 7/1/2020 at 11:19 AM, Greatoneshere said:

 

I totally understand that - I'm not saying people can't enjoy things at different levels. My question originally was: if you could do PC gaming, and didn't have a good reason not to (like a lack of money, sharing with the family, etc.), why wouldn't you? That was basically it. Your explanation of people having different preferences I think has become moot since PC can suit all preferences (can play with any kind of controller, can hook it up to your TV, choice of mouse and keyboard, largest library of games by far, etc. etc.) and the reasoning that a person would avoid or skip all of that because of something meager like "fussing with the PC" I think the trade off can't possibly be worth it. 

 

I object all the time though. I think calling out peoples' strange reasoning and desiring explanations for what don't make sense so things can be reconciled to make sense isn't strange to me. My sister-in-law (my wife's younger sister) took 8 years to finish a basic college with a shitty bachelor's of psychology degree, she's 26, broke, no job (not because of Covid), dating an ex-con who went back to jail after only dating him less than two months (they've now been together for another 1.5 years since he went to jail) and wants to get pregnant and have his baby as soon as he gets out in another 2 years despite her having very little prospects and him having absolutely none. This is after lying to her in those first two months, hiding his alcoholism from her (which is what ultimately got him sent back to prison since he was drunk when he was committing the crime), bringing cops to my mother-in-law's door by surprise, etc. etc. Now, I could go: "these are her preferences, she wants to live this kind of life, I could question these preferences, suggesting it makes more sense to stabilize your life and at least be financially secure before having a baby, beyond every other fucked up thing I just listed about her situation". Like, logic objects. I object. What makes sense objects. People can do what they want, but in any order of priorities when it comes to gaming, if you could do PC gaming and without good reason just frivolously choose not to, those might be your preferences but they make no sense from any priority I'd care about as a gamer who has been playing games for 30 years now. It has nothing to do with PC master race or saying XSX or PS5 are moot or anything like that. My original point was simply being mystified by what I just laid out. I really am arguing in good faith here. :p 

 

 

Bro deciding to game on an Xbox when you could have a gaming PC instead is a little less serious than making terrible life decisions. Though I guess to a PC gamer, gaming on a console instead of a PC is a terrible life decision. 

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TomCat

TomCat

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On 7/5/2020 at 6:13 PM, crispy4000 said:

 

Only issue I have with his analysis is that it's more about how the Lockhart would handle games built with the current gen as a focus.

 

The further we get into next gen, the better that question will be answered.

Oh you are one of them.  SMH   yo youtube name Crapgamer?   does someone with a 1060T  and a 670  Hold back someone  with a Titan and 3950x.  Stop it with these false agendas of concern.  Lockhart will not hold back the series X.   Infact every thing is exactly the same except for Ram and Video card.  Both use Velocity Architecture.  

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TomCat

TomCat

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8 hours ago, Duderino said:

The other big question is how mesh shaders (which I imagine UE5’s nanite relies on) will scale to Lockhart’s GPU.

 

Both the UE5 PS5 demo and performance reports from nvidia asteroids demo suggest 1440p will likely be the target for this tech on the XSX/PS5.  What quality/resolution that leaves Lockhart at, who knows.

Whaaaaaaaaaat   It was reported that the Epic Technical Demo was about as  gpu intensive as Fortnight

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Duderino

Duderino

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21 minutes ago, TomCat said:

Whaaaaaaaaaat   It was reported that the Epic Technical Demo was about as  gpu intensive as Fortnight

The GPU time spent rendering geo is about the same as Fortnite on consoles... on PS5 at 1440p 30 fps.

I suspect this comparison is not accounting for all the Nanite overhead, just one potion of the costs.

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TomCat

TomCat

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8 minutes ago, Duderino said:

The GPU time spent rendering geo is about the same as Fortnite on consoles... on PS5 at 1440p 30 fps.

I suspect this comparison is not accounting for all the Nanite overhead, just one potion of the costs.

nanite overhead is suppose to be less then Raytracing

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Duderino

Duderino

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43 minutes ago, TomCat said:

nanite overhead is suppose to be less then Raytracing

Lumen comes at a higher cost than Nanite, which is less of a performance hit compared to Raytracing GI solutions.

The question though is not what the order of costs are, but rather how well they can each scale to Lockhart.   Given this cocktail of new tech can result in resolution and framerate compromises on the PS5, it could be quite a big ask of Lockhart's GPU.

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crispy4000

crispy4000

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17 hours ago, TomCat said:

Oh you are one of them.  SMH   yo youtube name Crapgamer?   does someone with a 1060T  and a 670  Hold back someone  with a Titan and 3950x.  Stop it with these false agendas of concern.  Lockhart will not hold back the series X.   Infact every thing is exactly the same except for Ram and Video card.  Both use Velocity Architecture.  

 

Strange response.


What matters is the specs developers choose to optimize for.  Most today are still trying to produce a decently good looking product on the basic XBO/PS4, and take that into consideration from the onset.  That's the baseline for this gen's low end, not so much what happens in the PC market, which is fluid.  Though you can point to lower-spec titles like Riot produces trying to hit even more of a low PC market.  (which gets much lower than the XBO)

 

I don't foresee Lockhart literally holding things back so much as costing developers more in optimization.  Or they might just stop giving a shit a few years in and we see some really lazy Lockhart rush jobs.

 

There's no way we go an entire new generation with a 4 teraflop GPU as a baseline target.  It's not realistic.

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Brian

Brian

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Quote

"Frankly, held back is a meme that gets created by people who are too caught up in device competition,"says Microsoft's executive vice president of gaming, and Xbox chief, Phil Spencer. "I just look at Windows. It's almost certain if the developer is building a Windows version of their game, then the most powerful and highest fidelity version is the PC version. You can even see that with some of our first-party console games going to PC, even from our competitors, that the richest version is the PC version. Yet the PC ecosystem is the most diverse when it comes to hardware, when you think about the CPUs and GPUs from years ago that are there. "
 

"Yes, every developer is going to find a line and say that this is the hardware that I am going to support, but the diversity of hardware choice in PC has not held back the highest fidelity PC games on the market. The highest fidelity PC games rival anything that anybody has ever seen in video games. So this idea that developers don't know how to build games, or game engines, or ecosystems, that work across a set of hardware... there's a proof point in PC that shows that's not the case.


Are Xbox Series X developers being held back by Xbox One?

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crispy4000

crispy4000

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Uh, Phil’s gone off the deep end with that.  The highest end PC versions today are held back by needing to be designed for scaled back machines without SSD’s, antiquated Jaguar CPUs, and low amounts of RAM.  We don’t know where game design would be today if those weren’t the minimum specs targeted.

 

In other words, it’s actually the lowest console specs that are holding PC back.  
 

If he believes Lockhart won’t, then we’ll have to see what happens.  But in today’s market?  It’s a straight up falsehood.

 

All this chest beating about SSD’s now is particularly ironic when PC gamers have been waiting for years for it to be an assumed given.

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crispy4000

crispy4000

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57 minutes ago, TomCat said:

exactly what ive been saying.  Its actually easier then supporting PC because you will start the gen off with 5 skus to support then it will drop to 2 in a couple years


There’s at least 6. (XBO, PS4, PSPro, X1X, PS5, XSX)

 

And I wouldn’t call supporting the baseline XBO and PS4 in the cross-gen period easy.  We’ve already seen some optimization shortfalls on them as the result of priority given to X/Pro.

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