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Xbox Series X | S OT - Power Your Dreams, update: FTC case unredacted documents leaked, including XSX mid-generation refresh, new gyro/haptic-enabled controller, and next-generation plans for 2028


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15 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

We get it.  The reason this narrative is so aggravating at this point , is it's been brought up for 3 years since MS has announced they are putting their games on PC Day 1.

 

It's somehow been turned into a negative against Microsoft and Xbox with the same usual characters coming into threads with the same copy and paste..

 

I have a PC so I don't really see why I need an Xbox.  

 

No shit.  No one's argued against that and Microsoft doesn't care if you buy an Xbox.  They are fighting for what they see as the future, which is ecosystem and services. 

 

So it's great you have a PC, congrats.  The discussions about the consoles themselves don't really have to do with people like you they have no interest in an Xbox cause you don't need one.

I mean, I do get what he’s saying. It seems they are making themselves redundant to a large portion of the audience. And its not like they killed it this Gen, and we all have huge reason to be optimistic. I didn’t even upgrade my One because MS gave me nothing I wanted that wasn’t available elsewhere. It hasn’t been used for a game in a very long time. My PS4 Pro and PC both see regular use because of the variety of both. 
 

its fine for MS to think of the future, but they really need to do something with the present too. And great hardware alone isn’t enough for me when I already have a box that gives me the exact same experience. Show me something I can’t get on PC. Or at least dedicated VR!

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3 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

I mean, I do get what he’s saying. It seems they are making themselves redundant to a large portion of the audience. And its not like they killed it this Gen, and we all have huge reason to be optimistic. I didn’t even upgrade my One because MS gave me nothing I wanted that wasn’t available elsewhere. It hasn’t been used for a game in a very long time. My PS4 Pro and PC both see regular use because of the variety of both. 
 

its fine for MS to think of the future, but they really need to do something with the present too. And great hardware alone isn’t enough for me when I already have a box that gives me the exact same experience. Show me something I can’t get on PC. Or at least dedicated VR!

Once against, Microsoft has been really open about not caring if you buy their hardware or not.  What profit does Microsoft and Sony make off their hardware?  Hell, going into this gen, they will both probably be losing a pretty penny on each piece of hardware sold.  They want to give people convenience and accessibility to their content.  They want people to be able to access their content whenever and wherever they want it.  They are moving away from being tied to a single piece of Hardware. 

 

You know another company that went with that model, Netflix.  They were never tied to a brick an mortar or hardware.  I never needed to buy a Netflix box to stream Netflix.  They put their App on as many devices they possibly could.  And Netflix Originals and exclusive content wasn't a thing initially.  They first had to prove their service and model, and build up subscriptions, then they heavily invested in exclusive content for their platform.  Now Netflix has 180 million subscribers. 

 

That's what Microsoft wants.  They spent this generation investing in their cloud gaming, and investing in Game Pass.  They now have 10+ million subscribers on the service, even with what many would say is piss poor 1st party exclusive output for most of the last 3 years.  In 2017, Microsoft finally gave Phil a seat at the table as VP, and probably opened up the checkbook a bit, and Microsoft bought up a bunch of new studios. They bought those studios not to sell more Xbox hardware, but to sell more Game Pass subscriptions, both on Xbox and PC.  Of course they probably believe that people that own Xbox hardware will most likely also subscribe to Game Pass, so they want to move hardware, but that's not the primary goal anymore.  Having their 1st party games coming out day and date, they know they need quality content into the service to continue growing the subscription base.  The more subs they get into the service, the more money they'll have to play with adding more studios or investing more into their studios to keep adding more content.  Just look at how much exclusive content Netflix has these days compared to years ago. 

 

That's their play, and that's why its so small minded to see the same people come into Xbox threads and simply spew, "I have a PC there's no reason to own an Xbox.".  Cool story.

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2 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

Once against, Microsoft has been really open about not caring if you buy their hardware or not.  What profit does Microsoft and Sony make off their hardware?  Hell, going into this gen, they will both probably be losing a pretty penny on each piece of hardware sold.  They want to give people convenience and accessibility to their content.  They want people to be able to access their content whenever and wherever they want it.  They are moving away from being tied to a single piece of Hardware. 

 

You know another company that went with that model, Netflix.  They were never tied to a brick an mortar or hardware.  I never needed to buy a Netflix box to stream Netflix.  They put their App on as many devices they possibly could.  And Netflix Originals and exclusive content wasn't a thing initially.  They first had to prove their service and model, and build up subscriptions, then they heavily invested in exclusive content for their platform.  Now Netflix has 180 million subscribers. 

 

That's what Microsoft wants.  They spent this generation investing in their cloud gaming, and investing in Game Pass.  They now have 10+ million subscribers on the service, even with what many would say is piss poor 1st party exclusive output for most of the last 3 years.  In 2017, Microsoft finally gave Phil a seat at the table as VP, and probably opened up the checkbook a bit, and Microsoft bought up a bunch of new studios. They bought those studios not to sell more Xbox hardware, but to sell more Game Pass subscriptions, both on Xbox and PC.  Of course they probably believe that people that own Xbox hardware will most likely also subscribe to Game Pass, so they want to move hardware, but that's not the primary goal anymore.  Having their 1st party games coming out day and date, they know they need quality content into the service to continue growing the subscription base.  The more subs they get into the service, the more money they'll have to play with adding more studios or investing more into their studios to keep adding more content.  Just look at how much exclusive content Netflix has these days compared to years ago. 

 

That's their play, and that's why its so small minded to see the same people come into Xbox threads and simply spew, "I have a PC there's no reason to own an Xbox.".  Cool story.

Sounds like you’re a bit too on the fanboy train.  MS hasn’t wowed anyone in a long time, and I have no reason to believe they will. And they wouldn’t fight to make the most powerful box if they didn’t care who bought it. 
 

Again, I hope they wow me, but nothing they have done suggests they can.

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Just now, BloodyHell said:

Sounds like you’re a bit too on the fanboy train.  MS hasn’t wowed anyone in a long time, and I have no reason to believe they will. And they wouldn’t fight to make the most powerful box if they didn’t care who bought it. 
 

Again, I hope they wow me, but nothing they have done suggests they can.

Dude @JPDunks4 is anything BUT a fanboy... the guy owns multiple versions of pretty much every system and a PC that can travel through time. He's one of the few users on this board WITHOUT an agenda :shameonyou:

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2 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I can't possibly see how it's worth the tradeoff, having been on both sides of the equation.

 

And I think it's funny people think I care about "PC master race". I don't. This is just logical. More games, played better, more options, better graphics, etc. etc. I mean, fussing with a PC isn't worth all that? Crazy. You can have the best of all worlds and people are willfully choosing not to in some instances. That is nuts to me. But people will keep making my arguments about pushing some master race narrative or that I'm against people who have a good reason not to get the best because it's easier to argue against those points, one's I'm not making.

 

I don't think you're arguing in bad faith for what it's worth. But people do have all kinds of various preferences. Things that are trivial to me matter a lot to others. And inversely, sometimes things that seem trivial to others matter a lot to me. (e.g., my complete and utter loathing of micro stutter just doesn't seem to register for a lot of people.) Most people confuse the hell out of me most of the time, but when I stop and think about enjoying gaming to begin with, it looks pretty crazy altogether, so who am I to object to which things matter to people? :p 

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5 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

So... I'm hearing rumors of Fable and Perfect Dark reboots anybody else hear this?

 

Yeah some new Twitter name registrations that MS tried to play off as "old." But these two are the rumors that won't die. This latest update just adds fuel to the fire.

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5 minutes ago, XxEvil AshxX said:

My only prayer is that they make Joanna Dark a suave adult female James Bond like she used to be, and leave all that angsty shit at the door.

Or go full anime like Nintendo. Waifus sell

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29 minutes ago, ManUtdRedDevils said:

You can’t provide an opinion without being called a fanboy or not serious gamer or lazy. 
 

funny donald trump GIF

I think a full throated defence of MS (or any console maker) does sound fanboyish. Claiming they are setting up the future is a bit unreal, especially when they have done nothing but play catch up.

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37 minutes ago, legend said:

 

I don't think you're arguing in bad faith for what it's worth. But people do have all kinds of various preferences. Things that are trivial to me matter a lot to others. And inversely, sometimes things that seem trivial to others matter a lot to me. (e.g., my complete and utter loathing of micro stutter just doesn't seem to register for a lot of people.) Most people confuse the hell out of me most of the time, but when I stop and think about enjoying gaming to begin with, it looks pretty crazy altogether, so who am I to object to which things matter to people? :p 

 

I totally understand that - I'm not saying people can't enjoy things at different levels. My question originally was: if you could do PC gaming, and didn't have a good reason not to (like a lack of money, sharing with the family, etc.), why wouldn't you? That was basically it. Your explanation of people having different preferences I think has become moot since PC can suit all preferences (can play with any kind of controller, can hook it up to your TV, choice of mouse and keyboard, largest library of games by far, etc. etc.) and the reasoning that a person would avoid or skip all of that because of something meager like "fussing with the PC" I think the trade off can't possibly be worth it. 

 

I object all the time though. I think calling out peoples' strange reasoning and desiring explanations for what don't make sense so things can be reconciled to make sense isn't strange to me. My sister-in-law (my wife's younger sister) took 8 years to finish a basic college with a shitty bachelor's of psychology degree, she's 26, broke, no job (not because of Covid), dating an ex-con who went back to jail after only dating him less than two months (they've now been together for another 1.5 years since he went to jail) and wants to get pregnant and have his baby as soon as he gets out in another 2 years despite her having very little prospects and him having absolutely none. This is after lying to her in those first two months, hiding his alcoholism from her (which is what ultimately got him sent back to prison since he was drunk when he was committing the crime), bringing cops to my mother-in-law's door by surprise, etc. etc. Now, I could go: "these are her preferences, she wants to live this kind of life, I could question these preferences, suggesting it makes more sense to stabilize your life and at least be financially secure before having a baby, beyond every other fucked up thing I just listed about her situation". Like, logic objects. I object. What makes sense objects. People can do what they want, but in any order of priorities when it comes to gaming, if you could do PC gaming and without good reason just frivolously choose not to, those might be your preferences but they make no sense from any priority I'd care about as a gamer who has been playing games for 30 years now. It has nothing to do with PC master race or saying XSX or PS5 are moot or anything like that. My original point was simply being mystified by what I just laid out. I really am arguing in good faith here. :p 

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Just now, BloodyHell said:

I think a full throated defence of MS (or any console maker) does sound fanboyish. Claiming they are setting up the future is a bit unreal, especially when they have done nothing but play catch up.

 

Really? How long did it take for PSN to "catch up" to Xbox Live? I STILL don't like how PSN handles saves across different playstations 4's. What about Backwards Compatibility? It sounds a bit fanboyish to ignore what MS has brought to gaming particularly with their ecosystem and online. They FORCED Nintendo and Sony to take online seriously when Sega failed to do so with the Dreamcast and its built in ethernet port.  Even Steam emulated a lot of what Live did first. And now Gamepass has changed the game as well. I think people underestimate how much MS pushed the big two Japanese companies to venture out of their comfort zones. 

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Just now, BloodyHell said:

I think a full throated defence of MS (or any console maker) does sound fanboyish. Claiming they are setting up the future is a bit unreal, especially when they have done nothing but play catch up.

X-Cloud, Facebook partnership, studio acquisitions, Game Pass, Xbox Adaptive controller, xbox play anywhere, Lockhart (Series S), Series X, and whatever else I forgot. Microsoft is setting itself up as a company that lets you decide how you want to interact with games. It’s as anti-fanboy you can get. The only ones who are getting upset are fanbois which D1P has quite a few closeted ones. 
 

I See You GIF by Hayley Kiyoko

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8 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

I think a full throated defence of MS (or any console maker) does sound fanboyish. Claiming they are setting up the future is a bit unreal, especially when they have done nothing but play catch up.

 

Tell that to Blockbuster when they laughed Netflix out of the building when Netflix asked for $50 million to sell their entire company back in the early 2000's.

 

The future comes fast when it comes to tech.

 

Blockbuster was the billion dollar giant in the video rental space.  Netflix was the little tech based start up trying something new.

 

https://www.cnet.com/news/blockbuster-laughed-at-netflix-partnership-offer/#:~:text=Blockbuster laughed at Netflix partnership offer Netflix proposed,out of the office%2C" recalled Netflix's outgoing CFO.

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4 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

Really? How long did it take for PSN to "catch up" to Xbox Live? I STILL don't like how PSN handles saves across different playstations 4's. What about Backwards Compatibility? It sounds a bit fanboyish to ignore what MS has brought to gaming particularly with their ecosystem and online. They FORCED Nintendo and Sony to take online seriously when Sega failed to do so with the Dreamcast and its built in ethernet port.  Even Steam emulated a lot of what Live did first. And now Gamepass has changed the game as well. I think people underestimate how much MS pushed the big two Japanese companies to venture out of their comfort zones. 

My point was all of this is done better by PC, I wasn’t comparing Sony and MS, i said claiming ms is the future when pc is so far beyond them is ridiculous. Sony gives me unique faming experiences though, xbox hasn’t for quite a while. I game for the games

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6 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

 

Tell that to Blockbuster when they laughed Netflix out of the building when Netflix asked for $50 million to sell their entire company back in the early 2000's.

 

The future comes fast when it comes to tech.

 

Blockbuster was the billion dollar giant in the video rental space.  Netflix was the little tech based start up trying something new.

 

https://www.cnet.com/news/blockbuster-laughed-at-netflix-partnership-offer/#:~:text=Blockbuster laughed at Netflix partnership offer Netflix proposed,out of the office%2C" recalled Netflix's outgoing CFO.

But they aren’t trying something new, they are trying to be a pc! Thats what I don’t want. I want xbox to be a unique experience, or it has no value to me.

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Just now, BloodyHell said:

But they aren’t trying something bew, they are trying to be a pc! Thats what I don’t want. I want xbox to be a unique experience, or it has no value to me.

 

Apparently it's over your head.  You're Blockbuster...

 

You want the old business model of closed gated hardware with exclusives to the hardware itself, for whatever reason.  You want to them to limit access to their content.

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I want them to give me a new experience. I want XSX VR, AR, i want experiences that I can’t get anywhere else. All im seeing are games I can play on PC, and very few interest me. My question from the start is WHY SHOULD I BUY AN XBOX? and don’t tell me MS doesn’t care, its just not true. 

 

I keep getting hostile “because they are creating the future” responses. But they aren’t, PC is. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, JPDunks4 said:

Once against, Microsoft has been really open about not caring if you buy their hardware or not.  What profit does Microsoft and Sony make off their hardware?... 

 

Every advantage the walled console garden offers them.
 

Xbox Live Gold and PSN+ subscriptions.  Mark-ups on accessories.  Royalties for game sales and DLC.  Leverage over 3rd party publishers.  Not having to hand over royalties to someone else. (Valve)

 

This is the reason they’re still in hardware to begin with.  We shouldn’t simply hand wave all that away.  You know deep down both companies would prefer you to buy their hardware, even when they try to come across as agnostic.

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1 minute ago, BloodyHell said:

I want them to give me a new experience. I want XSX VR, AR, i want experiences that I can’t get anywhere else. All im seeing are games I can play on PC, and very few interest me. My question from the start is WHY SHOULD I BUY AN XBOX? and don’t tell me MS doesn’t care, its just not true. 

 

I keep getting hostile “because they are creating the future” responses. But they aren’t, PC is. 
 

 

You keep circling back to hardware.  Why?  Who cares about the hardware.  When I said they are looking to the future, I don't mean in terms of hardware.  I mean in terms of Game Pass and trying to be the Netflix of Gaming.  They care more about building subscribers to Game Pass than they do selling Xbox Series X's.  If you don't understand that, then it's over your head.

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Aren't Sony First Party's coming to PC too? Didn't I JUST see a PC review for Death Stranding? How come Sony is exempt from the whole "I can get this experience on PC" argument? And like I said, MS pushed the PC exosystem with Live as well. or did Steam have friends' lists and achievements before Xbox Live introduced all of that stuff? Wait... Steam didn't even EXIST before Live.

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5 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

My question from the start is WHY SHOULD I BUY AN XBOX?

You shouldn't.

 

And MS is just fine and dandy with that because their interest is in you engaging their ecosystem through your preferred method which is the PC.

 

MS stopped reporting unit sales data a while ago because it's a totally irrelevant metric for their strategy which is based on user/ecosystem engagement.

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@Greatonesherethe problem I see here, and you know you’re my guy, is that you keep saying there a good reasons to make a particular decision but there are also bad reasons, yet seemingly the most common reasons are all legitimate reasons based on your responses here.

 

So what the hell are you even arguing :p 

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1 minute ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Every advantage the walled console garden offers them.
 

Xbox Live Gold and PSN+ subscriptions.  Mark-ups on accessories.  Royalties for game sales and  DLC.  Leverage over 3rd party publishers.

 

This is the reason they’re still in hardware to begin with.  Can’t simply hand wave it all away like that.

 

Yes, they still want to be in the hardware space, because they know there are still tens of millions of people that don't play on PC.  So walking away entirely from the hardware space would be absolutely idiotic.  Especially when its another big distribution point for Game Pass.   But it's also not their primary focus.  They are not primarily focused on selling hardware, if they were, they wouldn't put their exclusives on PC Day 1.  They haven't been focused on hardware since they made that decision.  They shifted their focus to building their Xbox ecosystem and brand to be as accessible and with the most distribution points possible.  xCloud will only further push that initiative to more distribution points.

 

Micrsoft's primary goal is Game Pass, and has been for years now.  They invested in 15 1st party studios the same way Disney invested in making the Mandalorian for Disney+.  They know they will need the content to keep growing their subscriptions.  It's why I think we haven't seen the end of Microsoft's investment into 1st party or 2nd Party deals.  They want a healthy dose of content continuously flowing into Game Pass to keep people subbed.

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