Microsoft Xbox Series X | S OT - Power Your Dreams, update: FTC case unredacted documents leaked, including XSX mid-generation refresh, new gyro/haptic-enabled controller, and next-generation plans for 2028

[TomCat]

2 minutes ago, stepee said:

there is no way that TomCat wasn’t shrilling blast processing so hard in elementary school

Nope Back then It was All about Mode 7 fuck Blast processing

[stepee]

i mean yeah i guess it was one or the other 

[crispy4000]

53 minutes ago, TomCat said:

Really  All you have to do is use Valhalla as an example.  At first Ubisoft said the game was going to run at 4k30   Then Microsoft gave them access to the Velocity Arch.  and the Game went up to 4k60

 

'We were having a tough time with this game on our dev kits in the summer, but then Microsoft unlocked the hidden power inside, and shazam, all our problems went away.'

Some imagination.
 

1 hour ago, TomCat said:

 

Damn the 6800 is doing Raytracing on par with the 3070  in a Raw benchmark.  Thats surprising and Better then I thought it would be.  Thats good news for the X

 

6800 XT.  It is, generally speaking.  We don't know where Series X (or PS5) will fall relative to these PC cards yet.

Of note, this is how the RTX 3000 line runs Control at 4k Ultra with raytracing on high.  No upscaling.

 

 

Next-gen console ports will be very interesting.
 

[TomCat]

32 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

'We were having a tough time with this game on our dev kits in the summer, but then Microsoft unlocked the hidden power inside, and shazam, all our problems went away.'

Some imagination.
 

 

6800 XT.  It is, generally speaking.  We don't know where Series X (or PS5) will fall relative to these PC cards yet.

Of note, this is how the RTX 3000 line runs Control at 4k Ultra with raytracing on high.  No upscaling.

 

 

Next-gen console ports will be very interesting.
 

 

No but we know the cu count of each device and Raytracing performance is based on that.

6800xt 72 cu's

X 52cu

ps5  36cu

S  20cu

 

[crispy4000]

Just now, TomCat said:

No but we know the cu count of each device and Raytracing performance is based on that.

6800xt 72 cu's

X 52cu

ps5  36cu

S  20cu

 

There'll probably be more nuance to it than just the cu count, but for rough guesstimates, sure.  Still waiting on seeing more games running and tested.

[TomCat]

20 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

There'll probably be more nuance to it than just the cu count, but for rough guesstimates, sure.  Still waiting on seeing more games running and tested.

yes I know that but I expect MS to get better Raytracing performance because they added Hardware accelerator blocks to the die that will give them 3-10x performance boost. and they have 2 years to get their techniques down and having it performing around that 10x mark. Thats why I say their Raytracing is not ready yet.  Just think of it as a firmware upgrade.  the hardware can do more they just havent unlocked it yet.

[crispy4000]

10 hours ago, TomCat said:

yes I know that but I expect MS to get better Raytracing performance because they added Hardware accelerator blocks to the die that will give them 3-10x performance boost. and they have 2 years to get their techniques down and having it performing around that 10x mark. Thats why I say their Raytracing is not ready yet.  Just think of it as a firmware upgrade.  the hardware can do more they just havent unlocked it yet.

You’re presuming their RT APIs aren’t ready (in spite of other developers already using them) and presuming a hypothetical performance boost amount when a magic switch gets flipped.

We’ll see the industry get more comfortable with raytracing as the generation goes on.  But the only huge RT performance booster we know to still be in development is the DLSS-alternative that’s confirmed to be forthcoming.

 

That tech really should have been there at launch, IMO.  On both Sony and Microsoft platforms.  Everyone’s dragging their feet catching up to DLSS.  The next gen should have come with next gen upscaling.  

[Brian]

Xbox Series X's Advantage Could Lie in Its Machine Learning-Powered Shader Cores, Says Quantic Dream

WCCFTECH.COM

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Looking at the hardware of Xbox Series X and PS5, Quantic Dream believes Microsoft's advantage could lie in the console's ML-powered shaders.

@TomCat is a Microsoft insider. Dude is always right. 

[crispy4000]

I’d already expect Series X to beat PS5 in ML with the higher CU count.

 

Things could get interesting later on when (and how) the upscaling algorithm materializes. 

[TomCat]

2 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

I’d already expect Series X to beat PS5 in ML with the higher CU count.

 

Things could get interesting later on when (and how) the upscaling algorithm materializes. 

the interesting thing is that the ps5 was reported to not support machine learning. I dont know enough about it to say how its suppose to work.  So even when AMD comes up with their solution will it be able to be ported over to the ps5.  

 

Also crispy if you know that ML is related to cu count  you should also know that Raytracing is the same.  ps5 wont compete in Raytracing because of the cu count.  Also as i said the other day.  M$ added  added Hardware accelerators to the die specifically for raytracing that will give them a 3-10x performance boost in Raytracing functions

[crispy4000]

3 hours ago, TomCat said:

the interesting thing is that the ps5 was reported to not support machine learning. I dont know enough about it to say how its suppose to work.  So even when AMD comes up with their solution will it be able to be ported over to the ps5.  

 

Also crispy if you know that ML is related to cu count  you should also know that Raytracing is the same.  ps5 wont compete in Raytracing because of the cu count.  Also as i said the other day.  M$ added  added Hardware accelerators to the die specifically for raytracing that will give them a 3-10x performance boost in Raytracing functions

 

I expect the PS5 to be weaker with RT, with scaled back settings.  But larger picture, both consoles will show us early on why a mid-cycle upgrade will be needed.  We’re already seeing it with a cross-gen Watch Dogs Legion dipping to ~1440p30 on Series X at nighttime, when it focuses exclusively on RT reflections (rather than Shadows and GI). It wouldn’t be surprising if Ubisoft was using their same upscaling solution as on the One X to get there.

 

It’s exciting to think everything could get much better with next-gen upscaling.  But it remains to be seen what the compromises and performance gains will be on AMD’s architecture.  Or even when the hell its coming.  Will it have to be trained per game, like DLSS 1.0?  That might be cheaper in performance impact.

 

Whatever it is, it’s not ready.  We’ll be seeing old upscaling methods used in the meanwhile.

[TomCat]

1 hour ago, crispy4000 said:

 

I expect the PS5 to be weaker with RT, with scaled back settings.  But larger picture, both consoles will show us early on why a mid-cycle upgrade will be needed.  We’re already seeing it with a cross-gen Watch Dogs Legion dipping to ~1440p30 on Series X at nighttime, when it focuses exclusively on RT reflections (rather than Shadows and GI). It wouldn’t be surprising if Ubisoft was using their same upscaling solution as on the One X to get there.

 

It’s exciting to think everything could get much better with next-gen upscaling.  But it remains to be seen what the compromises and performance gains will be on AMD’s architecture.  Or even when the hell its coming.  Will it have to be trained per game, like DLSS 1.0?  That might be cheaper in performance impact.

 

Whatever it is, it’s not ready.  We’ll be seeing old upscaling methods used in the meanwhile.

 

This is why I'm excited.

 

AMD Radeon RX 6800 RDNA 2 Graphics Card DXR Raytracing Benchmarks Leak Out

WCCFTECH.COM

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The first DXR raytracing performance benchmark of the AMD Radeon RX 6800 "Big Navi" RDNA 2 GPU based graphics card have leaked out.

 

 

According to that the 6800 which has 60 cu's performs better then a 3070 in Raytracing without Dlss active. Thats big if true.

 

New Xbox Series X SoC, GPU Details Revealed at Hot Chips 32 - ExtremeTech

WWW.EXTREMETECH.COM

---

Hot Chips 32, the (virtual) conference that delves into silicon designs from across the injury, is in full swing this week and AMD is one of the companies teeing up to talk about its hardware.

 

 

Now we know that the series X has 52cu's  and MS added the hardware accelerators for raytracing to the die. Here is an excerpt

 

The remarks on “Ray-box” and “ray-tri” are likely references to ray-box intersection tests and ray-triangle intersection tests. Both of these are crucial steps in ray tracing, though simply knowing these two numbers doesn’t tell us anything about what the solution will be capable of or how it compares with Nvidia hardware. The talk of a minor area cost for a 3x – 10x acceleration is interesting. One thing we don’t know yet about RDNA2 is whether or not it has any specialized hardware blocks for these types of calculations. Spending more die size to improve performance is not a bad tradeoff, though obviously it’s more impressive when the speedup is towards the 10x end of the range

 

 

But we now know how Amds  raytracing compares to nvidia  its actually better.   So add the better performance with the Hardware Accelerators and the Series X should perform excitedly well.   I doubt that cross gen games will take advantage of them like watch dogs because they didnt know the hardware was there.  But it will be exciting to see how control performs when they release the patch. And also future games that are designed from the ground up with all this tech in mind

 

 

Oh My just released sounds alot like what Ole TomCat was saying

 

 

[stepee]

lol

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 hour ago, crispy4000 said:

 

I expect the PS5 to be weaker with RT, with scaled back settings.  But larger picture, both consoles will show us early on why a mid-cycle upgrade will be needed.  We’re already seeing it with a cross-gen Watch Dogs Legion dipping to ~1440p30 on Series X at nighttime, when it focuses exclusively on RT reflections (rather than Shadows and GI). It wouldn’t be surprising if Ubisoft was using their same upscaling solution as on the One X to get there.

 

It’s exciting to think everything could get much better with next-gen upscaling.  But it remains to be seen what the compromises and performance gains will be on AMD’s architecture.  Or even when the hell its coming.  Will it have to be trained per game, like DLSS 1.0?  That might be cheaper in performance impact.

 

Whatever it is, it’s not ready.  We’ll be seeing old upscaling methods used in the meanwhile.

PS5 has a weaker GPU, it should be weaker in anything GPU dependent.  It will be interesting to see if/how many games are dependent on SSD speed.

I suspect that mid-cycle console will actually implement a ray tracing (and potentially DLSS competitor) that RDNA2 doesn't.

 

1 hour ago, TomCat said:

 

 

 

Oh My just released sounds alot like what Ole TomCat was saying

 

 

[crispy4000]

Nothing about a 3070’s RT performance is particularly exciting if DLSS is taken out of the picture.  You’d have to dial back settings to run Control at a consistent 4k30.  That’s the larger issue.  AMD going toe to toe that would still show the job isn’t done.

 

I think we can celebrate how far they’ve come while still being realistic about next gen gaming and RT demands.  We should have seen something more prepared to soften the performance blow.

[Brian]

Phil Spencer should hire hire Tomcat as Xbox’s mouthpiece. Dude spits fire and truth. 

[Mercury33]

Soooo the PS5 thread is filled with “Cant wait to play xxxx” “Cant wait to try out the controller” “Here’s a look at the UI” “here’s a look at xxxx game”

 

and this thread is just filled with theoretical tech dick measuring. Is this system gonna have/play games, innovate in any way? Or is this just basically X1X 2? Nothing new or interesting, just some cool sick new loading times for your 12 year old games. 

 

*yawn

[Remarkableriots]

Just now, Mercury33 said:

Soooo the PS5 thread is filled with “Cant wait to play xxxx” “Cant wait to try out the controller” “Here’s a look at the UI” “here’s a look at xxxx game”

 

and this thread is just filled with theoretical tech dick measuring. Is this system gonna have/play games, innovate in any way? Or is this just basically X1X 2? Nothing new or interesting, just some cool sick new loading times for your 12 year old games. 

 

*yawn

You have to wait 3-5 years before they start releasing next gen games so that might be a good time to get the series X.

[TomCat]

12 minutes ago, Mercury33 said:

Soooo the PS5 thread is filled with “Cant wait to play xxxx” “Cant wait to try out the controller” “Here’s a look at the UI” “here’s a look at xxxx game”

 

and this thread is just filled with theoretical tech dick measuring. Is this system gonna have/play games, innovate in any way? Or is this just basically X1X 2? Nothing new or interesting, just some cool sick new loading times for your 12 year old games. 

 

*yawn

i'm Glad a DLC has you so happy in the games department.  Keep on believing them sony lies  and their smoke and mirror routine  Mr. I dont understand what they talking about so I'll insult the whole thread Typical SDF response

[Mercury33]

13 minutes ago, Remarkableriots said:

You have to wait 3-5 years before they start releasing next gen games so that might be a good time to get the series X.

Is that when Halo will finally come out and be disappointing?

[crispy4000]

51 minutes ago, Mercury33 said:

Soooo the PS5 thread is filled with “Cant wait to play xxxx” “Cant wait to try out the controller” “Here’s a look at the UI” “here’s a look at xxxx game”

 

and this thread is just filled with theoretical tech dick measuring. Is this system gonna have/play games, innovate in any way? Or is this just basically X1X 2? Nothing new or interesting, just some cool sick new loading times for your 12 year old games. 

 

*yawn

 

A lot of it has to do with what Microsoft and Sony have given us to discuss lately.  Sony waited longer to pull back the curtain that’s opening now.  But both companies are still being cagey about some things.  We saw Series X raytracing for the first time last week, for example.

 

A lot was said about the Bethesda acquisition when it happened.  That was big.

[JPDunks4]

1 hour ago, Mercury33 said:

Soooo the PS5 thread is filled with “Cant wait to play xxxx” “Cant wait to try out the controller” “Here’s a look at the UI” “here’s a look at xxxx game”

 

and this thread is just filled with theoretical tech dick measuring. Is this system gonna have/play games, innovate in any way? Or is this just basically X1X 2? Nothing new or interesting, just some cool sick new loading times for your 12 year old games. 

 

*yawn

 

 

All I saw on the PS5 thread was about how huge and ugly it is? 

[Guest]

The only thing I'm looking to do with my PS5 at launch is play PS4 games too, tbh

[TomCat]

14 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

 

 

All I saw on the PS5 thread was about how huge and ugly it is? 

Well they cant talk about features because all they have is the Xtra fast SSD.  Did that help them get native 4k60 in Valhalla  NOPE  that xtra fast ssd only leads to a couple seconds faster load times THATS IT

[Ominous]

On 10/30/2020 at 11:19 PM, Xbob42 said:

Raytracing looks fantastic in Watch Dogs Legion. The game runs like shit no matter what unless you switch to DX11. So rest assured, raytracing is not the source of that game's performance woes. I can turn RTX from off to ultra and gain practically no FPS, which is absurd.

It also runs like shit on last-gen consoles, and, if the recent trailer is anything to go by, next-gen consoles. Plus, it doesn't look to be implementing full raytracing as at the very least the water is just basic SSR instead of PC's raytracing, and the trailer appeared to be at 1440p to boot.

 

All this is to say I think Watch Dogs Legion is a bad example of anything because Ubisoft fucking sucks.

Runs fine here. 

[Xbob42]

22 minutes ago, Ominous said:

Runs fine here. 

"Fine," my favorite FPS!

[Duderino]

3 hours ago, TomCat said:

Well they cant talk about features because all they have is the Xtra fast SSD.  Did that help them get native 4k60 in Valhalla  NOPE  that xtra fast ssd only leads to a couple seconds faster load times THATS IT

The fact that we haven't seen tangible comparisons yet has a lot to do with it.  With visual performance being one of the XSX's anticipated strengths and selling points, you should expect the majority of graphics speculation to happen here.

 

Just be patient, embargo will lift in the comming days/weeks. There will be plenty more to discuss that is more concrete then.

[Ominous]

7 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

"Fine," my favorite FPS!

 

Minimum FPS:	33.40
Average FPS:	58.69
Maximum FPS:	83.20
1%% low FPS	46.72
0.1%% low FPS	41.08
Frames rendered:	5257

 

 

 

Resolution	3840x2160
Texture Resolution	Ultra
Shadows	Ultra
Reflections	Ultra
Post-Process Anti-Aliasing
Extra Details	50 %
Ray Traced Reflections	Ultra
DLSS	Balanced
Temporal Upscaling	100 %
Subsurface Scattering	High

 

 

Ambient Occlusion	On
Field of View	80
Geometry	Ultra
Environment	Ultra
Texture Filtering	Ultra
Headlight Shadows	4 cars
Depth Of Field	On
Motion Blur	On
Bloom	On
V-Sync	Off
FPS Limit	Off

 

 

 

More than adequate for this type of gameplay. 

[crispy4000]

 

AC:V leak on Series X.  Grab before gone if you want to watch again.  Only a 1080p stream it seems.  No word on if it's 'smart delivered' but it is running above 30fps.

 

Noticed there's a cutscene transition to a 30fps FMV @ 7:41.

[Xbob42]

2 hours ago, Ominous said:

 

Minimum FPS:	33.40
Average FPS:	58.69
Maximum FPS:	83.20
1%% low FPS	46.72
0.1%% low FPS	41.08
Frames rendered:	5257

 

 

 

Resolution	3840x2160
Texture Resolution	Ultra
Shadows	Ultra
Reflections	Ultra
Post-Process Anti-Aliasing
Extra Details	50 %
Ray Traced Reflections	Ultra
DLSS	Balanced
Temporal Upscaling	100 %
Subsurface Scattering	High

 

 

Ambient Occlusion	On
Field of View	80
Geometry	Ultra
Environment	Ultra
Texture Filtering	Ultra
Headlight Shadows	4 cars
Depth Of Field	On
Motion Blur	On
Bloom	On
V-Sync	Off
FPS Limit	Off

 

 

 

More than adequate for this type of gameplay. 

Nope. Not good enough.

Also, is that from the benchmark? Because the benchmark is hilariously less demanding than just driving a car in the open world.

[crispy4000]

 

[Ominous]

31 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

Nope. Not good enough.

Also, is that from the benchmark? Because the benchmark is hilariously less demanding than just driving a car in the open world.

 

Maybe it's my 2 TB 970 EVO Plus, but driving hasn't caused any issues. 

[TomCat]

10 minutes ago, Ominous said:

 

Maybe it's my 2 TB 970 EVO Plus, but driving hasn't caused any issues. 

are you using direct storage?

 

[Ominous]

14 minutes ago, TomCat said:

are you using direct storage?

 

Is that even out yet? 

[TomCat]

1 minute ago, Ominous said:

Is that even out yet? 

dont know just know its coming