Television Who watches the Watchmen? (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?), update - HBO confirms no second season

[SuperSpreader]

1 minute ago, fuckle85 said:

Almost as much as the show I'm looking forward to the critiques from users on this board.  @Greatoneshere @TwinIon @skillzdadirecta @Anathema-  @sblfilms and anyone else I forgot who's usually got passion for posting the insights and sometimes reviews here, know that your takes are not going unappreciated!

I really enjoy @2user1cups opinions, they really resonate with me. 

[fuckle85]

39 minutes ago, 2user1cup said:

I really enjoy @2user1cups opinions, they really resonate with me. 

 

They do for the most part!  The imagery your username references/brings to mind sometimes? Not as much, to be completely honest! 

[Paperclyp]

Probably been said, but this is a very good thread title. 

[SuperSpreader]

15 minutes ago, fuckle85 said:

 

They do for the most part!  The imagery your username references/brings to mind sometimes? Not as much, to be completely honest! 

Engrish?

[fuckle85]

13 hours ago, 2user1cup said:

Engrish?

????  Are you making fun of how bad my writing is sometimes lol? How dare you!

[Brick]

On 10/28/2019 at 6:29 PM, TwinIon said:

I found the talk surrounding Dr. Manhattan's abilities to be interesting. I don't recall in the book if that specific point is brought up or not, but it kinda surprises me that the limits of his abilities would be so well known, or at least that people would think they understand his limits so confidently. I always thought of his power as kinda ambiguous. Certainly he has limits (the whole plot of the book is impossible if it was without limits), but especially when it came to his appearance I kinda figured that he never bothered looking more human because he just never cared to. Whatever the case, it certainly seems like between that talk of Manhattan and his central presence in Veidt's play that Manhattan will play some notable role in someone's plans. The other bit of evidence for his involvement is the repeated imagery of the castle. We see a very similar castle design with Manhattan on Mars, Veidt's home, and in what Topher is building.

 

It was less him not being able to look human, and more that he can't pretend to be human because he's become so distant to his original humanity; he's a higher power now. So even if he can change the physical makeup of his body to look like a regular person, he cannot act like them; he can't seem like a regular person cracking jokes and making smart ass remarks like Will was doing. 

[skillzdadirecta]

I haven't watched the second episode yet so i have nothing to contribute there but I did come across this today 

 

 

[Anathema-]

Something tells me that they're setting up Louis Gossett Jr to be Hooded Justice. 

[Bitgod]

Looks like there will be new reading material every week... https://www.hbo.com/peteypedia

 

" Mr. Crawford was born on December 1, 1949, in Tulsa. A former Marine, he served under Captain Robert S. Mueller in the Liberation of Vietnam and received multiple commendations for bravery during the purge sweeps of 1971 to 1973. "

 

Lolol

[Anathema-]

On 10/30/2019 at 5:41 PM, Anathema- said:

Something tells me that they're setting up Louis Gossett Jr to be Hooded Justice. 

 

Watched the second episode again and now I'm like, 90% sure. Yes, I know that he's "known" to be a white guy. I don't think that's a big hurdle to pass.

[Anathema-]

Seems like Watchmen is the 227 / Designing Women crossover we always wanted.

[TwinIon]

Another solid episode this week, and the first one where I really started to feel like knowledge of the original feels essential. I think there's a lot in the first two that would confuse people unaware of the comic/film, but most of it is references, nothing story or character essential. With this episode, if you don't know anything about Veidt or Laurie I feel like so much about those characters is lost. They do lay out just enough for people to understand why things are important, but I feel like that's very different than knowing their backgrounds.

 

I really liked Laurie in this episode. I think it's great that she's become this vigilante hunter and that she's the one pushing back against the idea of masked cops. I liked the idea that she's "calling" Dr. Manhattan and telling him jokes. For some reason I didn't expect to see many of the Watchmen in this show, and now we've got two plus Manhattan in the background.

[Anathema-]

45 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

For some reason I didn't expect to see many of the Watchmen in this show, and now we've got two plus Manhattan in the background.

 

And we know Night Owl II is in jail with a corrupt promise of a pardon.

[johnny]

3 hours ago, TwinIon said:

Another solid episode this week, and the first one where I really started to feel like knowledge of the original feels essential. I think there's a lot in the first two that would confuse people unaware of the comic/film, but most of it is references, nothing story or character essential. With this episode, if you don't know anything about Veidt or Laurie I feel like so much about those characters is lost. They do lay out just enough for people to understand why things are important, but I feel like that's very different than knowing their backgrounds.

 

I really liked Laurie in this episode. I think it's great that she's become this vigilante hunter and that she's the one pushing back against the idea of masked cops. I liked the idea that she's "calling" Dr. Manhattan and telling him jokes. For some reason I didn't expect to see many of the Watchmen in this show, and now we've got two plus Manhattan in the background.

I bought the graphic novel knowing I’d need to read it to fully get all of this. This episode highlighted that even more. I kinda know what’s up with some of this stuff but I did google a few things I was confused about. 

[MarSolo]

Can I just say that Jean Smart is the perfect Laurie? Like, she embodies the comic character so much.

[skillzdadirecta]

On 10/30/2019 at 2:41 PM, Anathema- said:

Something tells me that they're setting up Louis Gossett Jr to be Hooded Justice. 

Wasn't Hooded Justice

Spoiler

gay are implied to be? Are was that just the Comedian taunting him when he beat the shit out of him after he attacked Laurie's mom in the graphic novel

 I could be wrong... makes sense that he would be black though. I'm enjoying the series a lot so far but one thing I did NOT like was Laurie's gigantic Dr. Manhattan cattle prod/dildo. That was just tacky in my opinion. Other than that the series has been really good especially for someone like me who is a HUGE fan of the Watchmen comic. This is much better than Snyder's movie which wasn't terrible, but was just so different in tone from the comic series it was based on.

[Anathema-]

I could definitely go on Snyder's Watchmen but I did love it. I thought the earnest "bad ass" tone also worked to feel subversive because of the nature of the material. Inadvertent, but great. I saw someone comment how the giant dildo may have been a shout out to Snyder who wanted his Manhattan to have a giant dong. I thought it was hilarious either way. 

 

Laurie having a taste for young flesh is also a fantastic place to take this character forward.

 

As far as Hooded Justice goes, assuming my prediction is correct I think it's easy enough to say that any rumors or anything incongruous between the novel and the show can be written off as part of the disguise.

 

Number one just look at the costume. A man in what is effectively a black klan robe with a damn noose around his neck. Compare that to what outfit Bass Reeves was wearing in the movies Will grew up with. It's too perfect.

 

Number two just look at the values Will would have learned growing up admiring Bass Reeves only to have it all repackaged as a white hero. The desire to personally mete out justice would be enormous.

 

Number three Will hanging onto a note from ZE GERMANS, talking about how America treats minorities, his whole life -- burning a hole in his pocket like "where's the lie?" but every day. Especially as this letter invited the black soldiers to come to Germany. Really not a stretch to see how Will would have adopted the persona of a German.

 

Part A if Will is an old timey hero then all the rest of it makes sense, but that's minor.

 

Part B I think I have a decent handle on how Lindelof likes to foreshadow. A Bass Reeves silent film in episode one followed by a Hooded Justice "Hero Story" in episode two being thematically connected is right in his lane and the fact that the character's morality lines up doesn't hurt. All that's missing is having them share some key phrase or explicitly stated philosophy. 

 

Hooded Justice is Will playing at Bass Reeves. I'm willing to put my pin there and god DAMN it feels good to be talking about tv like this again.

[Anathema-]

21 hours ago, johnny said:

I bought the graphic novel knowing I’d need to read it to fully get all of this. This episode highlighted that even more. I kinda know what’s up with some of this stuff but I did google a few things I was confused about. 

 

Ask questions because even if you slam the book you need time to chew on it. Six weeks might not be enough. 

[skillzdadirecta]

Yeah I think your theory regarding Will as Hooded Justice is spot on.

[Brick]

Will is also wearing a red jacket over a dark purple vest/shirt. What does Hooded Justice wear? A red cape over dark purple tights. 

 

 

Was Jeremy Irons being Veidt supposed to be a surprise? I swear they talked about that in press material before the show aired. 

[Anathema-]

4 hours ago, Brick said:

 

Das Jeremy Irons being Veidt supposed to be a surprise? I swear they talked about that in press material before the show aired. 

 

Eh, I think not all reveals need to necessarily be surprises. The show never shied away from basically telling you who he is but I think there's something to holding back his proper introduction to let the story centered on Angela breathe.  The third episode felt more like the coming out party for the original characters in the new story, so Veidt getting a properly dramatized intro pushed to this episode makes it line up thematically (which makes for a better overall episode).

[Anathema-]

I'm also hoping the dramatic pattern of focusing on one character per episode(ish) holds. That was how the novel was laid out and it's not a coincidence that's how LOST was laid out either. The first two being a typical two-fer opening that featured Angela, the next episode being Laurie's.

 

If that's the case, who's next?  Looking Glass has to be one. Will for sure. The finale probably won't focus on anyone specific. Three left. Veidt? Red Scare? Judd? Panda? That congressman dude? Someone in the 7th Kalv? Someone we haven't met yet? Dreiberg?

[sexy_shapiro]

I loved the graphic novel but absolutely HATED the movie. The movie completely misunderstood everything crucial to Watchmen. It made me wary of this show working. Snyder only understood the visuals of the comic. He devoted himself to replicating the visuals, but he didn’t understand the guts of Watchmen.

 

This show not only understands the guts of the novel and why it works, but it feels like a proper extension of that world. Having it set in an alternate present gives this show a vitality that the movie adaptation was missing.

 

The movie stylized everything to its own detriment. It revelled in its violence while the novel itself was very anti violent. The violence in the novel was not stylized - it was very matter of fact and often brutal. The show understands this. The violence is rough stuff and is never fun to watch.

 

I can’t wait for tonight’s episode.

[Firewithin]

Lady Trieu introduction was fantastic

 

the "clone cooking" sounds were haunting and super dark with him eating the cake while it was going on lol

[sexy_shapiro]

Veidt scenes continue to be my favorite segments from the show, and this week this did not disappoint.

 

We’ve seen very little Seventh Kalvary stuff so far. I feel like they’re bound to have a higher presence as the show goes on.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

OH MY GOD! 

 

I TOTALLY lost it at the breakfast table scene with the kids when the father explained that Uncle Judd isn't in heaven   

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Also...

 

FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, PLEASE RELEASE THE SOUNDTRACK TO THIS SHOW!

[sexy_shapiro]

11 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

Also...

 

FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, PLEASE RELEASE THE SOUNDTRACK TO THIS SHOW!

They will be releasing three albums worth of music and Volume 1 is already on Apple Music. And I agree, the score is fan-fucking-tastic. It adds so much atmosphere and tension to an already great show.

 

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

So we're all agreed that Veidt isn't on Earth, right?

[Brick]

10 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

So we're all agreed that Veidt isn't on Earth, right?

 

Ooo I didn't think of that but maybe. Who could have kidnapped him do we think? Maybe Dr. Manhattan. A sort of late punishment for the squid, like, "fine you saved the world from a nuclear Holocaust and made world peace, but you're stuck here as punishment for all the lives it cost to do it". 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

5 minutes ago, Brick said:

 

Ooo I didn't think of that but maybe. Who could have kidnapped him do we think? Maybe Dr. Manhattan. A sort of late punishment for the squid, like, "fine you saved the world from a nuclear Holocaust and made world peace, but you're stuck here as punishment for all the lives it cost to do it". 

Yeah, I'm leaning towards Manhattan imprisoning him somewhere "extra-dimensional".

[Firewithin]

1 hour ago, SFLUFAN said:

OH MY GOD! 

 

I TOTALLY lost it at the breakfast table scene with the kids when the father explained that Uncle Judd isn't in heaven   

Didn't even phase them either

[SuperSpreader]

2 hours ago, Brick said:

 

Ooo I didn't think of that but maybe. Who could have kidnapped him do we think? Maybe Dr. Manhattan. A sort of late punishment for the squid, like, "fine you saved the world from a nuclear Holocaust and made world peace, but you're stuck here as punishment for all the lives it cost to do it". 

The last shit Dr Manhattan gave 

[Greatoneshere]

Veidt is most likely on Mars imprisoned by Dr. Manhattan who has told him if he's so smart to escape his "trap". That's my guess.

 

Peteypedia is official canon documents that help explain the TV series (Dave Petey is the agent with Silk Spectre II).

 

Must read: https://www.hbo.com/peteypedia

[Bloodporne]

Dr. Manhattan sounds like an early 80's b-boy