Television Who watches the Watchmen? (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?), update - HBO confirms no second season

[Brick]

The first episode of HBO's Watchmen aired tonight; anyone watch it? 

 

It's been over a decade since I read the comic, and this being a sequel to it has me intrigued, and how they'll reference the events of the book. A lot more about race relations in this than I remember in the book. 

[Nokt]

1 hour ago, Brick said:

The first episode of HBO's Watchmen aired tonight; anyone watch it? 

 

It's been over a decade since I read the comic, and this being a sequel to it has me intrigued, and how they'll reference the events of the book. A lot more about race relations in this than I remember in the book. 

I would like to watch this, but not paying for HBO. Will watch later down the road I guess.

[Firewithin]

i need to re-read the original comic but i thought this was quite good.  a lot of cool easter eggs and the show design is outstanding 

[skillzdadirecta]

I'll check it out tonight... breaking my Lindelof boycott only because I love the graphic novel so much.

[Guest]

Haven’t had an HBO sub since GoT ended, but may grab one for this if the reactions remain positive.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

That was a VERY impressive debut episode!

 

And, man, that production quality is off the charts! 

[Mercury33]

Cancelled HBO after GoT ended. If this is good I’ll re-up and binge it after it’s over. 

[Bitgod]

I was very MEH going in, cuz Lindelof.  But I'm all in now.

 

I recommend checking this out if you're into finding out more info on the world.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/hbos-watchmen-is-much-more-connected-to-the-comics-than-1839259720

 

https://www.hbo.com/peteypedia

 

3 words already from the first document caught my attention.  SURGEON GENERAL OZ

[Greatoneshere]

Anyone "meh" on Lindelof simply hasn't seen The Leftovers in full, plain and simple.

[johnny]

Pilot was good. Really looking forward to the rest of the season. The compilation at the end got me hyped. 

[SuperSpreader]

Pretty awesome

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Just watched the episode again.

 

That's a helluva debut!

[SuperSpreader]

 

It's amazing reading people on Reddit learn about Tulsa for the first time because of the show, and some deny that those elements are around today, and some deny that the gov didn't turn a blind eye to permit this to happen, and deny and deny 

[TwinIon]

I rewatched the movie (it's pretty good) and went into this one cautiously optimistic. I know Lindelof has said that Watchmen is his favorite piece of media, and boy did it show. The pilot really gives the impression of a deeply thought out world that is also a fascinating extension from the comic. So many little details that added in show a real love for the source material, and the ways that it chose to extend some of the potential implications are both unexpected and completely consistent.

 

What really stands out to me is how headfirst it dives into racial relations and modern politics. I obviously never read Watchmen when it was being released, but it's clearly a work of it's time, harnessing the political environment for its own commentary. I feel like the easy way out with a sequel is to go back to that well; make Adrian's peace short lived and put us back on the brink of nuclear war, returning to a cold war era style of politics. Instead, they've chosen to immerse the show in an set of issues that are both evergreen and undeniably contemporary. It's a bold move that gives the show an urgency and modernity that it could easily have lacked.

 

If the rest can live up to the pilot, this could be a really special show.

[Brick]

8 hours ago, 2user1cup said:

 

It's amazing reading people on Reddit learn about Tulsa for the first time because of the show, and some deny that those elements are around today, and some deny that the gov didn't turn a blind eye to permit this to happen, and deny and deny 

 

Yeah I never knew about the race riots until this series.

[Jwheel86]

I know nothing about Watchmen, just watched episode 1, still know nothing about Watchmen. 

[SuperSpreader]

1 hour ago, Jwheel86 said:

I know nothing about Watchmen, just watched episode 1, still know nothing about Watchmen. 

Nixon. 

[skillzdadirecta]

I just watched it... whoa. Almost makes me want to forgive Lindelof for all of the other crap he's made. Almost. That was a HELL of a pilot. Interesting that so few people knew about the Tulsa race riot also known as Black Wall Street. There are many instances of situations like this happening in American history. The movie Rosewood showed one. The documentary BANISHED (made by a couple of friends of mine) talks about others. 

[Anathema-]

Lindelof again proving to be one of the finest tv writers in the business. History will be very kind to his work.

 

What's crazy is we haven't even seen the half of it yet. It's going to absolutely crack open in the next couple episodes. We probably haven't even met all the great characters.

[skillzdadirecta]

Well Lost had a great pilot too and we saw where that went 

This was a great start though and hopefully they'll be able to maintain the quality.

 

Another note, that Black Marshall that was the movie character in the beginning of the episode was also based on a real guy

Bass Reeves who Tarantino based Sam Jackson's character on in The Hateful Eight. Some say he was also the inspiration for The Lone Ranger.

[fuckle85]

Welp that seals it, gotta check this out as soon as I read or rewatch the first one again.  

On 10/25/2019 at 9:58 AM, skillzdadirecta said:

Well Lost had a great pilot too and we saw where that went 

This was a great start though and hopefully they'll be able to maintain the quality.

 

Another note, that Black Marshall that was the movie character in the beginning of the episode was also based on a real guy

Bass Reeves who Tarantino based Sam Jackson's character on in The Hateful Eight. Some say he was also the inspiration for The Lone Ranger.

 

It's kinda funny how much Warren is considered by lots of viewers...

 

Spoiler

...to be one of the Hateful Eight instead of Jodie.  Pretty much any "evidence" shown in the movie that proves he's being hateful for his time instead of someone reacting with furious anger to his environment was either gossip from the bigoted characters or that story about raping the Bruce Dern character's son he probably used to troll him into drawing his weapon to legally shoot down before becoming a problem.  There was never much proof to support him being truly hateful, despite all the takes on various wild west-like frontiers of the interwebs.

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

17 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I just watched it... whoa. Almost makes me want to forgive Lindelof for all of the other crap he's made.

Hopefully, if this continues to meet with your approval, it will compel you to watch The Leftovers, perhaps the single greatest television show ever made.

[skillzdadirecta]

24 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

Hopefully, if this continues to meet with your approval, it will compel you to watch The Leftovers, perhaps the single greatest television show ever made.

I have other personal reasons for never watching that show 

[silentbob]

Just watched and I too very much liked it. I’m liking the fact they are keeping to the comic book original ending and not the movie ending. Like the parallels of today’s problems but wrapping them into the narrative of the series. I can’t wait to see where they take it and hopefully we will keep getting little Easter eggs tying it back to the original story 

[Anathema-]

21 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Well Lost had a great pilot too and we saw where that went 

 

It went on to be the most influential show of all time, and the greatest up until Lindelof eclipsed his own work with The Leftovers 

 

Quote

Another note, that Black Marshall that was the movie character in the beginning of the episode was also based on a real guy

Bass Reeves who Tarantino based Sam Jackson's character on in The Hateful Eight. Some say he was also the inspiration for The Lone Ranger.

 

These "side notes" pervade Lindelof's work and knowing the details makes his works worth revisiting over and over again, revealing new details. Apparently the plot to Oklahoma provides for some interesting parallels and even raises some questions about Judd (Don Johnson).

[Mercury33]

Wait...Lindelofs greatest? Or the greatest show of all time? You can’t possibly mean the latter, right?

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

17 minutes ago, Mercury33 said:

Wait...Lindelofs greatest? Or the greatest show of all time? You can’t possibly mean the latter, right?

I do mean the latter.

[skillzdadirecta]

4 hours ago, Anathema- said:

 

It went on to be the most influential show of all time, and the greatest up until Lindelof eclipsed his own work with The Leftovers 

 

 

These "side notes" pervade Lindelof's work and knowing the details makes his works worth revisiting over and over again, revealing new details. Apparently the plot to Oklahoma provides for some interesting parallels and even raises some questions about Judd (Don Johnson).

 

No way in hell Lost is "The most influential show of all time." That's just hyperbole. It has its fans and it did influence a bunch of shows and the first season is amazing. It was downhill from there.

 

3 hours ago, SFLUFAN said:

I do mean the latter.

 

By what metric exactly?  I haven't seen the show so I can't comment on its quality, so I don't know how it stands up to my current top three shows of all time BREAKING BAD, THE WIRE AND THE TWILIGHT ZONE (which by the way, has a VERY good argument for being one of, if not THE most influential shows of all time having influenced a whole generation of writers  and shows INCLUDING Lindelof. I'm sure Leftovers a quality show, but I'm not a fan of Lindelof's style of storytelling that seems to confuse being obtuse for being mysterious.  I gave Watchmen a chance because I LOVE the graphic novel and Regina King is cool people and was pleasantly surprised with the pilot. Hopefully he can keep it up. The director did a great job with this episode too.

[Dre801]

The Googling of "Black Wall Street" spiked due to this show.  Many not knowing that really happened.

[skillzdadirecta]

3 hours ago, Dre801 said:

The Googling of "Black Wall Street" spiked due to this show.  Many not knowing that really happened.

 

Which while not surprising is actually INSANE to me. The U.S. did a GREAT job of whitewashing stuff like this from history.

[SuperSpreader]

1 hour ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

Which while not surprising is actually INSANE to me. The U.S. did a GREAT job of whitewashing stuff like this from history.

It's the one thing we're good at. 

[Anathema-]

Lindelof treats mysteries with the appropriate respect. If you'd only seen LOST you can be forgiven for mistaking this because he and his writing partner had wildly divergent beliefs on the value and use of mysteries. Mysteries are actually a critically important part of writing compelling stories; you have to make your audience want to know something before you tell them what it is.

 

Lindelof mysteries are things like, why do the police wear masks or why are Angela's kids not black" in the small sense and the large sense asks what is Jeremy Irons / Louis Gosset Jr. up to or what does the advance of squid falls mean? Lindelof's mysteries are not corners he's trying to intentionally paint himself into to see if he can write his way out. That was Carlton Cuse's thing and just look at the other stuff that guy has done for an idea. 

 

We see that even more clearly now after episode two. Answers beget questions but not in a frustrating way. Who was that in the sky? This has to be some kind of Minuteman thing right? What are they trying to expose? As much as episode one told us that Jud is a "good" guy I don't think the easy assumption in his closet tells the whole story. Angela found what she found but in a way that evokes the novel and I can't help but be reminded that Rorshach only found what Veidt wanted to be found and she may be getting set up the same way.

 

I really really missed appointment television. This is scratching an itch that has been pestering me since the end of LOST. There's so much to discuss, think about, pick apart, and learn about ourselves and others. This is only the start of what will be an amazing ride. 

[Anathema-]

And The Leftovers is the greatest show ever because nothing else in its sphere has abstracted and dramatized the moral at the center anywhere near as well and had a finale that was deeply affecting and intense while never raising above a whisper. There's NOTHING else like it and it's the deepest meditation on what it means to be depressed and how to overcome it that I've ever seen.

[TwinIon]

I thought the second episode was good. Not quite as good as the pilot, but a solid episode that answered a few small questions while also introducing a whole bunch of big ones.

 

I assumed that Jeremy Irons' servants were synthetic in some way. We definitely don't know their true nature quite yet, but it's something.

 

I found the talk surrounding Dr. Manhattan's abilities to be interesting. I don't recall in the book if that specific point is brought up or not, but it kinda surprises me that the limits of his abilities would be so well known, or at least that people would think they understand his limits so confidently. I always thought of his power as kinda ambiguous. Certainly he has limits (the whole plot of the book is impossible if it was without limits), but especially when it came to his appearance I kinda figured that he never bothered looking more human because he just never cared to. Whatever the case, it certainly seems like between that talk of Manhattan and his central presence in Veidt's play that Manhattan will play some notable role in someone's plans. The other bit of evidence for his involvement is the repeated imagery of the castle. We see a very similar castle design with Manhattan on Mars, Veidt's home, and in what Topher is building.

[fuckle85]

Almost as much as the show I'm looking forward to the critiques from users on this board.  @Greatoneshere @TwinIon @skillzdadirecta @Anathema-  @sblfilms and anyone else I forgot who's usually got passion for posting the insights and sometimes reviews here, know that your takes are not going unappreciated!