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Movies Scorsese on Marvel movies: "That's not cinema" "Theme park ride" EDIT: Coppola says Marvel movies "despicable" "same movie over and over again"

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I'm coming to this story late, but I'm very confused why this is such an issue.  Many Marvel movies are now among the top grossing films ever made, so why does it matter that filmmakers of a different generation don't like them?  How much success is required for these people?  I don't like these movies at all, and find them the cinematic equivalent of playing with my action figures and making up random rules on the fly so that Batman can win, but not everybody needs to like this shit for it to still be culturally dominant and wildly successful.  If anything, the reaction to these quotes reeks of insecurity and desperation.  This is like watching people meltdown over a critic's 7/10 review for a AAA videogame; perhaps people should stop making these corporate media properties a core component of their identity and recognize that art is subjective and that's okay.

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13 hours ago, Mercury33 said:


That’s every business on planet earth. 
 

And saying the MCU saved cinema is about as big of a stretch as you can get haha. 
 

It’s not the film industries fault people aren’t interested in seeing certain types of movies in theaters anymore. You really think there was a collective effort to slash their business on everything but high budget extravaganza movies? That makes no sense. The advancement of technology is to blame. People aren’t watching movies on 20 inch SD tvs with crappy sound at home anymore. So many people have mini home theaters as their basic living room set up that why spend $10 to see some comedy on a mega screen when you can wait a little while and watch it at home with an arguably better experience for free?  Why do you think theaters across the country are ripping out 50% of their seating capacity and installing giant recliners? It’s less about the novelty of seeing a film and theaters now and more about competing with the home experience. 

 

Exactly this. The entire world of cinema is available to everyone with a simple voice commands. You can find yourself engrossed in anything from some lavish Bollywood flick to some Korean drama to some Spanish horror. I can sit in my recliner at home in my underwear with my 4K HDR TV with surround sound and yell out "play me Roma" and it just happens.

 

While I love the theater experience, I have to convinced to find a baby sitter and spend the cash. For me, that's winds up being movies that really benefit from the big screen or movies I really don't want spoiled.

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Marty digs deeper on his thoughts on The Marvel Movies

Quote

"Well, look, the point is, in terms of this film, Netflix, theaters, what I'm talking about really are films that are made," he began. "Let's say a family wants to go to an amusement park, that's a good thing, you know. And at themes and parks there's these cinematic expressions. They're a new art form. It's something different from films that are shown normally in theaters, that's all."

"For them, my concern is losing the screens to massive theme park films, which I say again, they're [their] own new art form," Scorsese continued. "Cinema now is changing. We have so many venues, there are so many ways to make films. So enjoyable. Fine, go and it's an event and it's great to go to an event like an amusement park, but don't crowd out Greta Gerwig and don't crowd out Paul Thomas Anderson and Noah Baumbach and those people, just don't, in terms of theaters."

Read the rest of the article but his issue is less about the movies themselves and more about audiences willingness to see the types of films he's championing "In theaters"

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Jay and Silent Bob isn't playing anywhere near me and now I can blame marvel movies for it.

 

 

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17 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Marty digs deeper on his thoughts on The Marvel Movies

Read the rest of the article but his issue is less about the movies themselves and more about audiences willingness to see the types of films he's championing "In theaters"

I am on the sidelines making a guess but I would argue that its not just the audience but the movie production being an issue. They dont seem to be interested in making a 10 million film that makes 20 mil when they can be reaching for that 1 billion dollar franchise.

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I’m just sad we’ll never see Happy Death Day 3 because while the 2nd one over performed, it didn’t over perform up to the studio’s expectations. :(

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1 hour ago, Emblazon said:

I’m just sad we’ll never see Happy Death Day 3 because while the 2nd one over performed, it didn’t over perform up to the studio’s expectations. :(

 

I need to see these movies... seemed like goofy fun. Kinda like the old Final Destination series.

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28 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

I need to see these movies... seemed like goofy fun. Kinda like the old Final Destination series.

So much better. Part 2 really goes the way of Sci-Fi, paying a lot of homage to Back to the Future. It’s awesome. 

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Awesome Op-Ed piece by Scorsese 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/opinion/martin-scorsese-marvel.html#click=https://t.co/hrX1LdDnXv


 

“Some say that Hitchcock’s pictures had a sameness to them, and perhaps that’s true — Hitchcock himself wondered about it. But the sameness of today’s franchise pictures is something else again. Many of the elements that define cinema as I know it are there in Marvel pictures. What’s not there is revelation, mystery or genuine emotional danger. Nothing is at risk. The pictures are made to satisfy a specific set of demands, and they are designed as variations on a finite number of themes. 

They are sequels in name but they are remakes in spirit, and everything in them is officially sanctioned because it can’t really be any other way. That’s the nature of modern film franchises: market-researched, audience-tested, vetted, modified, revetted and remodified until they’re ready for consumption.”

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5 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Here's a great interview he did for the BBC talking about The Irishman and why he dropped The Joker.

 

 

Thanks. That was a good interview. Nothing he said was wrong. I hope in the future there is room for both types of movies to be made. 

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3 hours ago, number305 said:

Thanks. That was a good interview. Nothing he said was wrong. I hope in the future there is room for both types of movies to be made. 

 

It was a great interview and I can't really disagree with too much he says. There will always be room for both types of movies to be made. I think that he is still wedded to the idea that films NEED to be seen in the theater, he even says it in that interview, and I don't know if that's the case for certain kinds of films. You can get a decent sized HD TV and Sound bar these days for less than a thousand dollars and replicate the theater experience in the home and I think for the types of films he's championing, audiences will choose to see those films at home more and more than in theaters. The Blockbuster, tentpole film isn't new and Marvel didn't create it... his contemporaries George Lucas and Steven Spielberg did over forty years ago with Jaws and Star Wars and that didn't "kill cinema" and neither will the Marvel movies. But you can't change audiences viewing habits or stem the tide of technology so...:shrug: 

I DO think that's he's a little resentful that it isn't easy for him to get financing for the types of films he wants to do at the budgets he needs and that's why he's so focused on the Marvel films. I honestly don't think we'll see another 10 years of Marvel dominance now that the Avengers Saga is over. We'll see... but I'll be curious to see how audiences respond to the "next wave" of Marvel movies.

 

48 minutes ago, Emblazon said:

So, in other words, the movies that his good friend Steve makes shouldn’t be considered cinema?

 

That's a good question and I'm surprised no one has asked him yet. George Lucas is a friend of his too. I'd be curious to hear his thoughts on THEIR contributions to cinema.

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8 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

It was a great interview and I can't really disagree with too much he says. There will always be room for both types of movies to be made. I think that he is still wedded to the idea that films NEED to be seen in the theater, he even says it in that interview, and I don't know if that's the case for certain kinds of films. You can get a decent sized HD TV and Sound bar these days for less than a thousand dollars and replicate the theater experience in the home and I think for the types of films he's championing, audiences will choose to see those films at home more and more than in theaters. The Blockbuster, tentpole film isn't new and Marvel didn't create it... his contemporaries George Lucas and Steven Spielberg did over forty years ago with Jaws and Star Wars and that didn't "kill cinema" and neither will the Marvel movies. But you can't change audiences viewing habits or stem the tide of technology so...:shrug: 

I DO think that's he's a little resentful that it isn't easy for him to get financing for the types of films he wants to do at the budgets he needs and that's why he's so focused on the Marvel films. I honestly don't think we'll see another 10 years of Marvel dominance now that the Avengers Saga is over. We'll see... but I'll be curious to see how audiences respond to the "next wave" of Marvel movies.

 

 

That's a good question and I'm surprised no one has asked him yet. George Lucas is a friend of his too. I'd be curious to hear his thoughts on THEIR contributions to cinema.

 

He talked about audience tested movies.

 

I'll be damned if Lucas would let people who work with him, never mind audiences, to determine what's in the prequels.

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4 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

 

"These are the sorts of movies Disney people should be making." Roger Ebert knew. He fucking knew.

Roger Ebert ALWAYS knew and he defended all types of cinema which is why I admired him so much even though I didn't always agree with him. It's also why I find these arguments about what is cinema and what isn't so boring and tedious. I had to deal with this pretentious bullshit in film school all the time and it was just as boring then as it is now. It's also why I don't really like to get into too many "deep dive" discussions on the internet about films because a lot of times the "reviews" that posters write about films tell me more about THEM than about the film. Everyone wants to show how smart they are by lauding the most pretentious and simplistic bullshit even when it's a complete and total artistic mess but they resent films that are complex in their simplicity... I won't begrudge anyone for liking what they like. That's a matter of taste. But some of the takes I've seen from folks who take themselves and their opinions VERY seriously are straight up laughable. Once I get the sense that you are full of shit, I kind of tune you out. It's why I pretty much stopped reading movie reviews shortly before finishing college and why I very rarely read videogame reviews.

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5 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

He talked about audience tested movies.

 

I'll be damned if Lucas would let people who work with him, never mind audiences, to determine what's in the prequels.

That's a distinction without a difference. Whether Spielberg or Lucas tested their films or not (I'm willing to bet folding money that both have) is besides the point. He's talking about films that are by their design, meant to appeal to a broad audience and that fits both of those guys to a tee. Both have been accused of making feature length toy commercials and he has an issue with that. So I'd be curious to hear how he differentiates their films from the Marvel films. I DID see his point about The Joker though and why that film didn't appeal to him.

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1 minute ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Roger Ebert ALWAYS knew and he defended all types of cinema which is why I admired him so much even though I didn't always agree with him. It's also why I find these arguments about what is cinema and what isn't so boring and tedious. I had to deal with this pretentious bullshit in film school all the time and it was just as boring then as it is now. It's also why I don't really like to get into too many "deep dive" discussions on the internet about films because a lot of times the "reviews" that posters write about films tell me more about THEM than about the film. Everyone wants to show how smart they are by lauding the most pretentious and simplistic bullshit even when it's a complete and total artistic mess but they resent films that are complex in their simplicity... I won't begrudge anyone for liking what they like. That's a matter of taste. But some of the takes I've seen from folks who take themselves and their opinions VERY seriously are straight up laughable. Once I get the sense that you are full of shit, I kind of tune you out. It's why I pretty much stopped reading movie reviews shortly before finishing college and why I very rarely read videogame reviews.

 

Ebert didn't think video games were an art form, to which I heavily disagreed. However, he never talked down to readers who did and debated him, and he always welcomed them and jelly am open ear. I enjoyed writing to him and knowing that he was going to take the email seriously if he responded.

 

Just a great attitude overall, and his chemistry with Roeper was underrated. I wish The Ring review was still online somewhere. Ebert was so befuddled, and Roeper sounded like a kid explaining to his dad things in the movie.

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10 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Ebert didn't think video games were an art form, to which I heavily disagreed. However, he never talked down to readers who did and debated him, and he always welcomed them and jelly am open ear. I enjoyed writing to him and knowing that he was going to take the email seriously if he responded.

 

Just a great attitude overall, and his chemistry with Roeper was underrated. I wish The Ring review was still online somewhere. Ebert was so befuddled, and Roeper sounded like a kid explaining to his dad things in the movie.

 

The video game thing is definitely generational and his argument as to WHY video games weren't an art form makes sense if you've ever heard it. I don't agree and I think when he thinks of video games he's thinking of Donkey Kong and Pac Man and I'm certain that he would have evolved on the subject given time. Old people are gonna be old :shrug:

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I genuinely kind of miss Roger Ebert in the landscape of cinema. I mean that as in I was a huge fan of his writing even when I wildly disagreed. I loved reading his tirades, his passionate love of films and so on, I felt like I liked him as a person. I know it's a bit off-topic but I think he was great. 

 

I'll never forgive Tetro, what a fucking monumental pile of shit and also fuck Vincent Gallo to seven hells and back. I'd rather be condemned to an eternity of superhero movies, of which I've seen approximately three total maybe, than ever have to sit through Tetro again. There's my nuanced opinion. 

 

Edit: Is The Irishman actually good? IMDB etc. all look killer but that whole aging thing really turned me off and I thought it looked kind of silly and terrible in the trailers :/ 

 

Edit #2: The Ebert documentary made me fucking cry, not even gonna lie

 

 

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I will say that I can sit and listen to Marty talk about the craft of filmmaking and his process ALL DAY. So great to hear how he approaches shooting a scene and working with actors.

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8 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

I genuinely kind of miss Roger Ebert in the landscape of cinema. I mean that as in I was a huge fan of his writing even when I wildly disagreed. I loved reading his tirades, his passionate love of films and so on, I felt like I liked him as a person.

 

My favorite line of his:

 

Quote

"The Last Airbender" is an agonizing experience in every category I can think of and others still waiting to be invented. The laws of chance suggest that something should have gone right. Not here.

 

Which is impressive considering the last line of the review is

 

Quote

I close with the hope that the title proves prophetic.

 

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3 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

My favorite line of his:

 

 

Which is impressive considering the last line of the review is

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

My favorite Roger Ebert line ever was his comeback when Vincent Gallo called him a fat pig and said he had the physique of a slave-trader after Ebert called his absolute garbage "movie" Brown Bunny the worst in Cannes history:

 

"It is true that I am fat, but one day I will be thin, yet he will always be the director of "The Brown Bunny.""

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7 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I will say that I can sit and listen to Marty talk about the craft of filmmaking and his process ALL DAY. So great to hear how he approaches shooting a scene and working with actors.

All day. He's also eloquent and thoughtful as fuck so he's a pleasure to listen to. Besides, I dig his typical, unfortunately dying, old school NY way of talking. 

 

You guys ever see that docu he did about his parents/his family? It's great. 

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2 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

My favorite Roger Ebert line ever was his comeback when Vincent Gallo called him a fat pig and said he had the physique of a slave-trader after Ebert called his absolute garbage "movie" Brown Bunny the worst in Cannes history:

 

"It is true that I am fat, but one day I will be thin, yet he will always be the director of "The Brown Bunny.""

 

He always had a good comeback. That guy who attacked the actors in Star Wars, for example, was written about in Ebert's book:

 

"I feel repugnance for the critic John Simon, who made it a specialty to attack the way actors look. They can't help how they look, any more than John Simon can help looking like a rat."

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1 hour ago, Bloodporne said:

also fuck Vincent Gallo to seven hells and back. I'd rather be condemned to an eternity of superhero movies, of which I've seen approximately three total maybe, than ever have to sit through Tetro again. There's my nuanced opinion. 


Buffalo 66 was alright

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Didn't Vincent Gallo also try to take responsibility for hexing Ebert's prostate cancer into existence, or he clarified his aim was off because he was initially trying to hex him with colon cancer?  Dude might be playing a fool sometimes, just sayin'. 

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17 hours ago, fuckle85 said:

Didn't Vincent Gallo also try to take responsibility for hexing Ebert's prostate cancer into existence, or he clarified his aim was off because he was initially trying to hex him with colon cancer?  Dude might be playing a fool sometimes, just sayin'. 

He's pretty well known to be an utterly enormous twat and cokehead, I wouldn't be surprised if he was serious sadly enough. I mean, he called 17-year-old Christina Ricci and ungrateful cunt and a fat piece of shit for saying Buffalo 66 was difficult to shoot. I think his character in Buffalo 66 is literally just him being himself. 

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