Television Star Trek: Picard - update: renewed for second season

[Jason]

45 minutes ago, Chairslinger said:

But, not surprisingly with Stewart involved with the story, the show quickly puts to bed any worries that this isn't Picard imho.

 

Probably won't get to watch until Monday but the dune buggy in Nemesis was Stewart's idea. 

[Chairslinger]

3 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Probably won't get to watch until Monday but the dune buggy in Nemesis was Stewart's idea. 

 

I've always thought Nemesis got a bad wrap. I like it better than Generations or Insurrection. All the movies had dumb action scenes. Movies have just never been the best medium for Star Trek.

 

But I wasn't really talking about a particular scene. There are examples in Star Trek of actors who really "get" the character they play. Andrew Robinson with Garak, John DeLancie with Q, Marc Alaimo with Dukat. I think Stewart is that way with Picard. I already had confidence that with Stewart having creative influence that the character wouldn't be doing things out of character for Picard, and after the first episode i am even more so. That's all I was saying.

 

 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

1 hour ago, Chairslinger said:

I thought the episode was fantastic. Several times it gave me chills. I've made no secret that I am going to love this show no matter what, but I think the episode set a good tone for some fan service  but also a strong base to move the story ahead in a way that is interesting all it's own.

 

I think people worried when Stewart said this would be a "different" kind of Star Trek, thinking of how Discovery is different. But, not surprisingly with Stewart involved with the story, the show quickly puts to bed any worries that this isn't Picard imho. He is living a different life, but this is still the Jean Luc Picard we know. A small detail from the beginning of the episode really made me feel this(and TNG was always so good at making these small moments that mean a lot).

 

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Picard is giving an interview, and it's clear there is still a lot of bitterness on all sides about the Romulan evacuation and the Synth attack on Mars. Picard blames Starfleet for calling off the evacuation out of fear, and some blame Picard for threatening the Federation's security to help an enemy.

 

The interviewer starts becoming confrontational about the decision to help Romulans and Picard says there were millions of lives at stake, and she responds "Romulan lives", and Picard responds with the perfect mix of saying something he feels should be plainly obvious, but understanding he is impressing this point to those who don't agree, "No. Lives."

 

 

 

 

I feel I’m like you, that I would like this show regardless. I do feel it is a different kind of Star Trek. At least this far. I saw a thumbnail of a video online acting like it is a critical failure because The show is t just like TNG. But it was never said to be. Patrick Stewart even came back because it was different and the character was different or at least in a different place in his life. 
 

I can see some Trek fans not being happy with it. 

[Captain Pickle]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

 

Probably won't get to watch until Monday but the dune buggy in Nemesis was Stewart's idea. 

lol.  My only fear is if it even slightly resembles xmen I'll be pissed.  The part in the preview where he be like "she's all alone" gave me the searching for a powerful young mutant in trouble vibe that I did not like. 

[elbobo]

What is the spoiler rule going to be in this thread?

 

Anyway I liked the first episode but didn't love it. There is some good stuff like Picard's interview and some weak stuff like the handwave of how Dahj found Picard and the stuff about one positron can rebuild an entire artificial brain. This was more a lay the groundwork episode than anything and did a decent enough job of it. I hope we get some flashbacks to some of the major events they glossed over because they could really use some fleshing out.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

I’m not a fan of the dream sequences as a concept for moving the plot. I like seeing data, and liked seeing the Enterprise D. But unless there is a revelation later that somebody or something was giving Picard the dreams it just feels a little too unbelievable. For me anyways. I know it is a tool used to move the plot in many works of fiction. It’s just, that’s not how sleep or dreams work. 

 

something that I hope gets answered is who or what what Dajh’s mother.

[elbobo]

1 hour ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

 

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I’m not a fan of the dream sequences as a concept for moving the plot. I like seeing data, and liked seeing the Enterprise D. But unless there is a revelation later that somebody or something was giving Picard the dreams it just feels a little too unbelievable. For me anyways. I know it is a tool used to move the plot in many works of fiction. It’s just, that’s not how sleep or dreams work. 

 

something that I hope gets answered is who or what what Dajh’s mother.

 

 

 

I was wondering what was up with Dajh's mother as well, was Dajh actually having a conversation with someone/something or was that all essentially a mental projection/programming in her head

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

16 hours ago, elbobo said:

I hope we get some flashbacks to some of the major events they glossed over because they could really use some fleshing out.

That's what the three-issue comic prequel miniseries is for!

[elbobo]

34 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

That's what the three-issue comic prequel miniseries is for!

 

ironically this show has already contradicted the prequel comics for Star Trek(2009) those had Data as the captain of the Enterprise E

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

OH MY WORD!

 

I THOROUGHLY ENJOYED this show immensely!  I was completely "engaged" (pun FULLY intended!) for its entirety and am ALL IN for it!

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

1 minute ago, SFLUFAN said:

OH MY WORD!

 

I THOROUGHLY ENJOYED this show!  I was completely "engaged" (pun FULLY intended!) for its entirety and am ALL IN for it!

Seriously. Fuck the nay-sayers that say it’s not Star Trek enough or its too influenced by Kurtzman, or its not TNG. I swear, some “fans” of franchises seem like they can never be happy with anything new. 
 

I cannot wait for next Thursday to be wrapped into Episode 2.  

[Chairslinger]

On 1/25/2020 at 1:47 PM, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Seriously. Fuck the nay-sayers that say it’s not Star Trek enough or its too influenced by Kurtzman, or its not TNG. I swear, some “fans” of franchises seem like they can never be happy with anything new. 
 

I cannot wait for next Thursday to be wrapped into Episode 2.  

 

 

 

The only time I have really hopped on board the "not Star Trek enough" complaint is season 1 of Discovery. There were times in s1 where they were making very morally dubious decisions and it wasn't just that they would do such things. Deep Space Nine, Voyager, and Enterprise all had episodes where they dealt with grey areas(in fact, a lot of people would consider Pale Moon Light one of DS9's very best episodes). It was that there wasn't even anyone in the room saying, "Uh, should we really be doing this?". That's the line for me. Star Trek doesn't have to be no conflict, and utopia, and all that....it can explore grey areas. But there should always be someone in the room challenging those decisions.

 

I thought s2 did much better with Pike being a moral center for the series. Which is why I suspect fans took to him so well. While s2 had some other narrative problems, I thought it mostly did away with the complaint that it didn't feel enough like Star Trek.

 

And the claim that Picard isn't Star Trek enough is just ridiculous. Sometimes you wonder what magical era in Star Trek these people are referring to that is "real Trek". The conflict set up in Picard is pretty believable stuff from what we know of the universe. And, in fact, if TNG had a bit of a fault compared to DS9 it was that they gave the appearance of a utopia because they flew off to the next adventure without digging deeper into an issue. The Marquis were a good example of this. And anyone saying "The Federation would never ban synths" is missing how close an analog the universe already has to this, which is that they banned augments. This wasn't not an issue in TNG's time, they just never tackled it. DS9 and Enterprise both did. And Enterprise even made the link between the two explicit.

 

And, you know, I think it was a good decision to not make this TNG 25 years later. I mean, considering that Worf, Riker, and Troi had already left the crew and Data had died, I am not even sure how you would make TNG 25 years later. Even by the movies they were having to come up with thinner and thinner excuses for Worf to wind up on the Enterprise. I mean, are we all just going to ignore that, despite a few of the ToS movies being good, it was always a little sad seeing the whole crew decades later, still in their same jobs on the ship, and poured into Starfleet unis that looked like they were about to pop a button hard enough to take out a bulkhead? By the end Shatner looked like there was a transporter malfunction that spliced Kirk's DNA with a muffin.

[Jason]

On 1/24/2020 at 5:46 AM, elbobo said:

 

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I was wondering what was up with Dajh's mother as well, was Dajh actually having a conversation with someone/something or was that all essentially a mental projection/programming in her head

 

Spoiler

Based on the conversation with Picard where she was asking if Picard was calling her crazy, and the scene with her twin in the Borg cube, I'm assuming she was placed with a family and given fabricated memories of a childhood with them. That would explain why her mom was telling her about Picard, it would make sense that Dahj's adoptive mother would know about that subliminal "trust Picard" thought planted in her.

 

[Jason]

Captain Pike has some thoughts:

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

Where I can kind of see the pacing issue argument is 

we meet Dahj. she is immediately attacked, turns into a badass murder machine in 5 seconds. Meets Picard. Dies. All in a 42 minute episode where she had less screen time than Picard or even his Romulan care takers.

 

Now if they are complaining about how Picard or Dajj will be at one place in once scene and then in the very next scene they are on another continent. Well, this a future with teleportation technology and shuttles capable of going slow enough to just appear to be hovering and ramp

all the way up to Warp 8 or 9. France to San Francisco will not take long. 

[Chairslinger]

7 hours ago, Jason said:

Captain Pike has some thoughts:

 

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I would like the character anyway, but it makes Pike even more likable that Anson, unlike a lot of past Trek actors, is a real fan of the shows.

 

I wouldn't really say it rose to the level of "complaint" for me, but I noticed a bit of a rushed feel in the back half of the show. Without knowing for sure, this seems like CBS's fault. They want to put Picard on a pay channel, but they seemingly don't want to go beyond the broadcast length and embrace 50 or 55 minute episodes like Netflix and other shows do. Wouldn't surprise me at all if there was connective tissue that got left on the cutting room floor.

 

Also, it will be interesting to see what next week's episode is like because, remember, TNG, DS9, Voy, and Ent all got feature length pilots. It wouldn't surprise me if, once viewed in context, these two episodes act as a more complete single story. Basically, CBS cut the pilot in half to stretch out their run. This would also make sense since we've known for a while that the first four episodes(at least) are blocked as first two directed by Hanelle Culpepper, and then the next two directed by Frakes.

[Jason]

BTW, are the episodes always going to drop at 3 AM Eastern or was that just for the premiere?

[Chairslinger]

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

BTW, are the episodes always going to drop at 3 AM Eastern or was that just for the premiere?

 

 

I don't think anyone really knows the answer to that until we get more examples to go on. As long as they do it by noon on Thursday I'll be happy. 

[Chairslinger]

@Jason

 

I didn't see if it went right up at 3, but it wasn't up at 1, and it was up at 5....so pretty safe to say that's the scedule they'll be going with for this run.

 

 

Sitting down to watch it now

[Jason]

On 1/30/2020 at 7:26 AM, Chairslinger said:

@Jason

 

I didn't see if it went right up at 3, but it wasn't up at 1, and it was up at 5....so pretty safe to say that's the scedule they'll be going with for this run.

 

 

Sitting down to watch it now

 

Yeah at 11:15 PM Pacific I saw it was up, which matches what someone on reddit said happened with the premiere. Staying up until 1 to watch is a bit too much but if I can be in bed by midnight then it's a lot more doable.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Just for some more backstory, Picard's Romulan vineyard assistants are former Tal Shiar operatives.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

"This Facility Has Gone 5,843 Days Without An Assimilation"

 

OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Sooooo - it would seem that the Romulans have infiltrated Section 31?

[Greatoneshere]

18 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

Sooooo - it would seem that the Romulans have infiltrated Section 31?

@sblfilms said I was adorable, but seeing you nerd out might be my favorite thing on this board. I'm not even a Trekkie (what? Me not a nerd about something?) and I appreaciate it. Eat healthier, bitch. Food matters.  

[elbobo]

Still confused about the attack on Mars. So the Synths which seem to be B4 level androids are kind of slaves to the federation(which is a whole different discussion), they get some activation code and deactivate the Martian defense grid but it also looks like the defense satellites turn on Mars but at the same time we see unknown ships attacking Mars, are those ships Synth ships, where are they from?

 

The first scene in the apartment was one of most egregious info dumps I have ever seen, it was just non-stop.

 

It looks like they are bringing back Picard's Irumodic syndrome from the TNG finale, that has been long debated if it was going to be his fate or just a possible future. Picard should have the memories of the future events of "all good things" so he knows what the ghost of Christmas future has in store, no one would want to go out like that especially Picard so I would definitely bet on him not making it out of the series alive unless they do some technobabble that organic android's brain tech can be used to cure his disease.

 

edit - ok those ships attacking Mars are starfleet ships, they have the starfleet delta on them. So weird that they look nothing like any other starfleet ships

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

11 hours ago, SFLUFAN said:

"This Facility Has Gone 5,843 Days Without An Assimilation"

 

OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO

A 16 year safety streak isn’t too bad. Gonna suck seeing that sign go down to 0. I mean for the inhabitants. Not so much for the viewers. 

[Jason]

12 hours ago, SFLUFAN said:

Sooooo - it would seem that the Romulans have infiltrated Section 31?

 

From reddit:

 

Spoiler

They said that the Romulan secret organization has been around for thousands upon thousands of years. That means it could predate the split between the Romulans and Vulcans. There could be both Vulcan and Romulan members of the organization.

 

That Commodore might actually be a Vulcan and not a Romulan agent.

 

[Jason]

Oh my fuck:

 

Spoiler

Quote

I would be amazing if they made my favorite fan theoy canon; Romulans are regular Vulcans and the Vulcans we know are Augments. Surak was the Vulcan Khan, but on Vulcan the Augments won, and sent the original Vulcans fleeing to Romulus.

 

Now that the flesh-and-blood androids have been introduced, they might even go as far as to say that Vulcans weren't just augments, but entirely synthetic.

Quote

I had this same thought.

1. Laris said the Zhat Vash has a deep loathing for synthetics
2. They keep a secret “so profound that just learning it could break a person’s mind.”
3. The entire idea of organic synthetics

They are definitely implying something enormous and world-shattering in scope. Vulcans being synths would really fit all the evidence so far.

 

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Oh.

 

Oh. My. Word.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

7 minutes ago, Jason said:

Oh my fuck:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Oooooo 

 

That would intrigue me. Not sure how it would play with “real” Star Trek “fans”. 

[CitizenVectron]

Biggest issue so far with how un-Star Trek it is:

Spoiler

Federation abandoned Romulans to die

Synths are basically slaves?

 

The best part of Trek is how idealistic and utopian the Federation is. Now, this isn't Discovery-level bad, but it's still a case of "How can we make the Federation edgy and representative of the current political climate?" IMO, the Federation should never be a representation of actual human politics, since it's something to be strived towards. Still interested in the rest of the series though!

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

44 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

Biggest issue so far with how un-Star Trek it is:

  Reveal hidden contents

Federation abandoned Romulans to die

Synths are basically slaves?

 

The best part of Trek is how idealistic and utopian the Federation is. Now, this isn't Discovery-level bad, but it's still a case of "How can we make the Federation edgy and representative of the current political climate?" IMO, the Federation should never be a representation of actual human politics, since it's something to be strived towards. Still interested in the rest of the series though!

You just don’t want the depressing, realistic portrayals of actual politics. Star Trek has always had them. More often they tend to rise above the current political discourse to be more philanthropists. But I’d argue the Federation hasn’t been an idealistic version of Humanity for a long time. Like even in TNG you could see it here and there, especially among the admiralty of Star Fleet. You could see more during war times in DS9 during the Dominion war. And my god, Janeway murders people by the trillions if it means getting home sooner (and just because she wants to), then gets promoted to Admiral. 

[Jason]

1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said:

Biggest issue so far with how un-Star Trek it is:

  Hide contents

Federation abandoned Romulans to die

Synths are basically slaves?

 

The best part of Trek is how idealistic and utopian the Federation is. Now, this isn't Discovery-level bad, but it's still a case of "How can we make the Federation edgy and representative of the current political climate?" IMO, the Federation should never be a representation of actual human politics, since it's something to be strived towards. Still interested in the rest of the series though!

 

The Federation took a severe ass-kicking in the Dominion War and this is 25 years after that. The people in charge now would have had the Dominion War be happening during their formative years.

[CitizenVectron]

I would say TOS and TNG were the "best" Star Treks in terms of the vision of the future and what it meant to the story. Yes, even in those series there were some grey morals and arguments, but there was always someone pushing for the perfect future. DS9 was a great series, but was not the future I wanted to see. Voyager was closer, but obviously wasn't really about the Federation. 

 

I think the best part of Star Trek is when they are faced with moral dilemmas (and often weigh doing dark things), but then choose to do the right thing, even if it costs something.

[CitizenVectron]

3 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

The Federation took a severe ass-kicking in the Dominion War and this is 25 years after that. The people in charge now would have had the Dominion War be happening during their formative years.

 

It doesn't make sense to me that the Federation would be xenophobic to any extent as there are thousands of different species in it. Also, the Federation took great advantage of the near-exact same thing happening to the Klingons. They would totally take advantage of the Romulans and save them in exchange for extending their influence. There was a great episode about that (can't remember which series), how the Federation is despised by outsiders because they manage to take over places through peace rather than through violence, and then the "conquered" place is more like Federation (peaceful, "weak").