Nintendo Nintendo Switch Lite is a smaller, cheaper Switch built exclusively for handheld play ($199)

[Keyser_Soze]

6 hours ago, TheGreatGamble said:

People who prefer it to be docked can buy a regular switch. 

 

They don't prefer it to be docked, they want a portable machine with the option to hook it up to the TV.

[darkness35]

I wonder if the original 2DS caused this much of a backlash....

[Keyser_Soze]

Just now, darkness35 said:

I wonder if the original 2DS caused this much of a backlash....

 

It didn't because no one liked the 3D.

[Mercury33]

43 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

They don't prefer it to be docked, they want a portable machine with the option to hook it up to the TV.

 

If only such a device already existed. 

[Keyser_Soze]

15 minutes ago, Mercury33 said:

 

If only such a device already existed. 

 

Sadly a switch light with the option to use on a TV does not exist.

[AbsolutSurgen]

52 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Sadly a switch light with the option to use on a TV does not exist.

[crispy4000]

All said and done, the Switch Lite is a personal machine.  The controllers aren't detachable.  You can't dock it.  There is no kickstand.

 

Some of you guys should really be asking for Nintendo to screw the dock altogether and include a standard HDMI port and a 12+ foot cable.  At least that way, you could use the damn buttons on the thing when its hooked up.

[Keyser_Soze]

37 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

 

Some of you guys should really be asking for Nintendo to screw the dock altogether and include a standard HDMI port and a 12+ foot cable.  At least that way, you could use the damn buttons on the thing when its hooked up.

 

This is what I mean by connect to a TV.

[chakoo]

9 hours ago, darkness35 said:

I wonder if the original 2DS caused this much of a backlash....

There was, just it died down when people got into debates over the name of new 3ds & new 3ds xl. Oh the philosophical discussions over the thought of people wanting to buy a new 3ds xl (previous model) and not a new new 3ds xl or how silly it was someone might go in to ask for a used new 3ds xl. 

[atom631]

Nintendo, please for the love of god if you’re reading this....release a third SKU for a dockable switch lite and charge $250. Problem solved. 

 

[Biggie]

15 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

They don't prefer it to be docked, they want a portable machine with the option to hook it up to the TV.

Exactly. I play docked 80% of the time but it’s nice to have the option to play it handheld if I choose. The name of the thing is the fucking SWITCH. 

[TwinIon]

I was thinking a little bit about how the existence of the Switch Lite could impact game development, and I think it's probably a good thing for someone that primarily plays with the Switch docked. Most games will target the largest player base, which will have an increasing percent of people unable to pull-off a joycon and waggle it at their devices. Those games weren't exactly overrunning the platform to begin with, but going forward you're going to really need to justify any kind of odd motion control and provide an alternative. For myself, that seems like a win.

[AbsolutSurgen]

If we are talking about our ideal SKUs that Nintendo will probably never make.  Mine are:

1)  PC Storefront that sells Switch Games, and emulates them.  Charge $50 for access to the emulator/storefront to offset the lost profit from the hardware sale.  I am OK if this has crazy good DRM.

2)  Console only Switch for $200.  Sell it with a box that has HDMI/ethernet out, no screen and a pro controller.

 

I would buy either of these immediately!  Especially #1, it would make me VERY happy!  (I am smart enough to know that Nintendo would probably never do this.)

[Mercury33]

4 hours ago, Biggie said:

Exactly. I play docked 80% of the time but it’s nice to have the option to play it handheld if I choose. The name of the thing is the fucking SWITCH. 

 

Its just a brand bruh. Don’t be Capt Literal Man

[crispy4000]

4 hours ago, TwinIon said:

I was thinking a little bit about how the existence of the Switch Lite could impact game development, and I think it's probably a good thing for someone that primarily plays with the Switch docked. Most games will target the largest player base, which will have an increasing percent of people unable to pull-off a joycon and waggle it at their devices. Those games weren't exactly overrunning the platform to begin with, but going forward you're going to really need to justify any kind of odd motion control and provide an alternative. For myself, that seems like a win.

 

I wouldn’t agree.  One, because it closes off another outlet for developers to create split controller experiences, with VR slumping nowadays. 

 

Two, because we’re less likely to get a Skyward Sword port, or any game that is an iterative improvement on its control scheme, which I quite enjoy.  

[TwinIon]

3 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

I wouldn’t agree.  One, because it closes off another outlet for developers to create 2-hand experiences, with VR slumping nowadays.

 

Two, because we’re less likely to get a Skyward Sword port, or any game that is an iterative improvement on its control scheme.  

The Joycons can't track themselves in 3D space though, so any motion first control schemes are going to be pretty poor. It's good enough for Mario Party mini games, but that's about the limit. You couldn't do something like beat saber or Until You Fall with the switch controls, so I'm happy to see bad waggle games get disincentivized.

[Biggie]

1 hour ago, Mercury33 said:

 

Its just a brand bruh. Don’t be Capt Literal Man

Fuck you. I’m a lieutenant!!!!!!!!!!  

[crispy4000]

55 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

The Joycons can't track themselves in 3D space though, so any motion first control schemes are going to be pretty poor. It's good enough for Mario Party mini games, but that's about the limit. You couldn't do something like beat saber or Until You Fall with the switch controls, so I'm happy to see bad waggle games get disincentivized.

 

Skyward Sword isn’t what I’d call a Mario Party mini-game.  Everything integrated in that game. Worked fine, for the most part.

 

The joycon may not be the most capable motion controllers out there, but they’re apparently an improvement on Wii Motion +.  I would still want to see more of that potential realized. 

 

Yeah, they could stand to benefit from spacial tracking too, but that’s also most important for the disembodied hand-like experiences you get in VR.  Not everything using motion controls needs to be that.

[darkness35]

1 hour ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Skyward Sword isn’t what I’d call a Mario Party mini-game.  Everything integrated in that game. Worked fine, for the most part.

 

The joycon may not be the most capable motion controllers out there, but they’re apparently an improvement on Wii Motion +.  I would still want to see more of that potential realized. 

 

Yeah, they could stand to benefit from spacial tracking too, but that’s also most important for the disembodied hand-like experiences you get in VR.  Not everything using motion controls needs to be that.

 

Holy fuck my eyes.

[crispy4000]

Gamers today are just biased against motion controls outside of first person VR games.  It’s controversial even to put motion assisted aiming in an AAA title nowadays.

[JPDunks4]

I hate games that require me to use a damn disconnected joycon.  I've never really used my Switch undocked.  It's been docked 24/7 for the 2/3 years I've had it, however old it is.  

 

This aint for me.  I do think it definitely should have an hdmi out, that can't be hard or expensive to do.

[AbsolutSurgen]

11 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

Gamers today are just biased against motion controls outside of first person VR games.  It’s controversial even to put motion assisted aiming in an AAA title nowadays.

That’s because they have mostly been used in situations where a button press is better. 

[crispy4000]

3 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

That’s because they have mostly been used in situations where a button press is better. 

 

Yeah, 10+ years ago.  That’s the bias that gamers hold on to.  

 

Doesn’t matter how much motion controllers have improved since the original Wiimote.  Developers see it as a liability.

 

[Brian]

Let’s hope Joy Con drift doesn’t become a thing for Switch Lite owners

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, ManUtdRedDevils said:

Let’s hope Joy Con drift doesn’t become a thing for Switch Lite owners

One of my son’s switch joycons has drift, and both of my Xbone elite controllers have had drift. Cheap sensor pads in the analog modules are the issue.

[GameDadGrant]

15 minutes ago, ManUtdRedDevils said:

Let’s hope Joy Con drift doesn’t become a thing for Switch Lite owners

I’m always wary of things like this. Thankfully I haven’t experienced the drift *knocks on wood* but if this happens on the Lite, I’d be pretty disappointed/ pissed.

[TwinIon]

23 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

Yeah, 10+ years ago.  That’s the bias that gamers hold on to.  

 

Doesn’t matter how much motion controllers have improved since the original Wiimote.  Developers see it as a liability.

That's because it is a liability.

 

How much have motion controls really improved? Any gyro-based motion control that doesn't have additional tracking just doesn't work as consistently and accurately as it needs to in order to be a good experience. I've used the Joy-cons, Oculus Go, and Daydream, and none have very impressive capabilities. If there's some system or game that does, I'd be happy to give it a go, but I think it's a fundamental limit of the technology.

 

Tracked motion control however, is freaking great. I've only ever used them in VR, but I can imagine they could still be fun in screen based games.

[crispy4000]

58 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

That's because it is a liability.

 

How much have motion controls really improved? Any gyro-based motion control that doesn't have additional tracking just doesn't work as consistently and accurately as it needs to in order to be a good experience. I've used the Joy-cons, Oculus Go, and Daydream, and none have very impressive capabilities. If there's some system or game that does, I'd be happy to give it a go, but I think it's a fundamental limit of the technology.

 

Tracked motion control however, is freaking great. I've only ever used them in VR, but I can imagine they could still be fun in screen based games.

 

A fucking lot.  The original Wiimote’s motion sensing was garbage.

 

I got so angry by the end of Zack & Wiki, hailed for its usage of the thing, for its inability to register the difference between horizontal and vertical swipes.  It was literally a 50/50 shot of it working as intended.

 

Most of of the gyro-focused games I’ve played with better technology have worked as advertised, if not always entirely perfect.  I’ve always thought the tech worked.  You just can’t design a game around nuanced spacial tracking for them, and that’s fine.

 

The industry at large wasn’t that interested in the tech at the time.  Not in the way they’ve been with VR.

 

Its why Skyward Sword is still such an anomaly.  

[AbsolutSurgen]

2 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Yeah, 10+ years ago.  That’s the bias that gamers hold on to.  

 

Doesn’t matter how much motion controllers have improved since the original Wiimote.  Developers see it as a liability.

 

Yes.  And the casual gamers loved WIi mini-game collections, and we all bought Kinects for our Xboxes.  And since the core-style games generally sucked using motion controls, we all stopped playing them that way.

 

It's not the "accuracy" that was a problem, is that the games that most of us play on a traditional console are generally better controlled with a dual analog controller (or KB/M).

 

(My comments don't apply to VR for obvious reasons.  But since Switch doesn't have a real VR solution, I am assuming we aren't including that in this conversation.)

[GameDadGrant]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Yes.  And the casual gamers loved WIi mini-game collections, and we all bought Kinects for our Xboxes.  And since the core-style games generally sucked using motion controls, we all stopped playing them that way.

 

It's not the "accuracy" that was a problem, is that the games that most of us play on a traditional console are generally better controlled with a dual analog controller (or KB/M).

 

(My comments don't apply to VR for obvious reasons.  But since Switch doesn't have a real VR solution, I am assuming we aren't including that in this conversation.)

Motion controls can be hit or miss, depending on the kind of game/talent of the developer. But I’ll tell ya what was no joke; IR aiming. 

 

Aiming with IR controls in the Wii version of Resident Evil 4 is pretty much the best way to play that game. Aiming was so quick and natural-feeling...it’s hard going back to traditional controls. It feels archaic in comparison.

 

Honestly I think the same could be said about nearly any FPS game as well. Playing the Goldeneye 007 remake with the Wiimote against players that used the dual analog controller was almost unfair. The speed and accuracy of IR aiming made dual analog players basically fish in a barrel, lol. Enemies could be picked off and destroyed so much easier in Quake and Dead Space. Same thing applied to Call of Duty titles, and for games specifically built with those controls in mind, like Red Steel 2 and Sin & Punishment: Star Successor. 

 

Motion is okay in limited quantities, but never as a substitution for a button press or analog stick tilt. I’ve found gyro aiming in games like Ocarina of Time 3D or Splatoon to work well in conjunction with traditional controls. Set up your shot with analog, then tilt just a bit to get that precision target. 

 

But other than that...motion (and traditional dual analog) ain’t got nothin’ on IR. Kinda wish more games were developed with those controls. Would be interesting to see what devs could come up with now. Or how the technology would have improved (which I assume it would, since we have seen advancements in motion controls). 

 

Oh well. What could have been...! 

[vaxick]

8 hours ago, JPDunks4 said:

I hate games that require me to use a damn disconnected joycon.  I've never really used my Switch undocked.  It's been docked 24/7 for the 2/3 years I've had it, however old it is.  

 

This aint for me.  I do think it definitely should have an hdmi out, that can't be hard or expensive to do.

 

USB Type C allows the transmission of video out.  Nintendo could include it and sell a dongle that converts Type C to HDMI, but it's Nintendo we're talking about so it'll never happen. 

[Zaku3]

5 minutes ago, vaxick said:

 

USB Type C allows the transmission of video out.  Nintendo could include it and sell a dongle that converts Type C to HDMI, but it's Nintendo we're talking about so it'll never happen. 

 

It is possible it might still "switch" if you can somehow get it into the dock?

[vaxick]

11 minutes ago, Zaku3 said:

 

It is possible it might still "switch" if you can somehow get it into the dock?

Not all versions of Type C allow it, Nintendo would have included it in the spec, but their is no way Nintendo would include it as it would kill sales of the normal Switch. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

15 minutes ago, GameDadGrant said:

Motion controls can be hit or miss, depending on the kind of game/talent of the developer. But I’ll tell ya what was no joke; IR aiming. 

 

Aiming with IR controls in the Wii version of Resident Evil 4 is pretty much the best way to play that game. Aiming was so quick and natural-feeling...it’s hard going back to traditional controls. It feels archaic in comparison.

 

Honestly I think the same could be said about nearly any FPS game as well. Playing the Goldeneye 007 remake with the Wiimote against players that used the dual analog controller was almost unfair. The speed and accuracy of IR aiming made dual analog players basically fish in a barrel, lol. Enemies could be picked off and destroyed so much easier in Quake and Dead Space. Same thing applied to Call of Duty titles, and for games specifically built with those controls in mind, like Red Steel 2 and Sin & Punishment: Star Successor. 

 

Motion is okay in limited quantities, but never as a substitution for a button press or analog stick tilt. I’ve found gyro aiming in games like Ocarina of Time 3D or Splatoon to work well in conjunction with traditional controls. Set up your shot with analog, then tilt just a bit to get that precision target. 

 

But other than that...motion (and traditional dual analog) ain’t got nothin’ on IR. Kinda wish more games were developed with those controls. Would be interesting to see what devs could come up with now. Or how the technology would have improved (which I assume it would, since we have seen advancements in motion controls). 

 

Oh well. What could have been...! 

I played Resistance 3 on PS3 with the move gun. I’m not positive what IR aiming is, but I assume it means pointing the controller at the screen to shoot things. 

 

I thought it was fun - but there were some downsides:

- shooting on screen was great, freelook was not well implemented (and was very slow to “turn-around”)

- controllers didn’t do well with “complicated” games that required lots of buttons

- I didn’t see a way of handling vehicle controls

- my arms got tired after 45 minutes. This control scheme doesn’t seem well suited to longer sessions

- accuracy wasn’t great, they needed to keep an aiming reticle on screen all the time

 

i can see this mostly being fixed in VR, where your freelook is controlled by the headset. 

 

Keyboard/mouse was still far superior to the above control method. I wish console manufacturers would support them for FPS. 

[crispy4000]

6 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Yes.  And the casual gamers loved WIi mini-game collections, and we all bought Kinects for our Xboxes.  And since the core-style games generally sucked using motion controls, we all stopped playing them that way.

 

It's not the "accuracy" that was a problem, is that the games that most of us play on a traditional console are generally better controlled with a dual analog controller (or KB/M).

 

(My comments don't apply to VR for obvious reasons.  But since Switch doesn't have a real VR solution, I am assuming we aren't including that in this conversation.)

 

I’d say there really wasn’t many ‘core’ games that used motion controls in an integral way, back then.  The most experiments were in the first years the Wii launched, before Motion Plus and Move.  So the potential was largely untapped. 

 

Pointer games were a small exception.  Some FPS actually figured out the deadbox and turn-speed stuff (Medal of Honor Heroes, Goldeneye, MP3 to a lesser degree). But that was still pre-Motion Plus.  No idea how Resistance fared by comparison, I never had a Move.  

 

I do know Red Steel 2 was probably the most experimental game of that kind. It did try to incorporate what the new controllers could add with its swordplay stuff.

 

There were a ton of early Wii games I would have loved to see retrofitted with better gyro controls.  Those motion sequences in the Galaxy games also come to mind.