Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
SaysWho?

Nintendo Nintendo Switch Lite is a smaller, cheaper Switch built exclusively for handheld play ($199)

Recommended Posts

12 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I played Resistance 3 on PS3 with the move gun. I’m not positive what IR aiming is, but I assume it means pointing the controller at the screen to shoot things. 

 

I thought it was fun - but there were some downsides:

- shooting on screen was great, freelook was not well implemented (and was very slow to “turn-around”)

- controllers didn’t do well with “complicated” games that required lots of buttons

- I didn’t see a way of handling vehicle controls

- my arms got tired after 45 minutes. This control scheme doesn’t seem well suited to longer sessions

- accuracy wasn’t great, they needed to keep an aiming reticle on screen all the time

 

i can see this mostly being fixed in VR, where your freelook is controlled by the headset. 

 

Keyboard/mouse was still far superior to the above control method. I wish console manufacturers would support them for FPS. 

Yeah, IR = Infared...it was how the Wii was able to track where the Wiimote was pointed at. (And required us to have that damn sensor bar on top of our TV sets, bah) 

 

Have you...not played many games on Wii? I only ask because your complaints about using the Move Gun didn’t really apply when using the Wiimote + Nunchuck control scheme. At least, in my experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, GameDadGrant said:

Yeah, IR = Infared...it was how the Wii was able to track where the Wiimote was pointed at. (And required us to have that damn sensor bar on top of our TV sets, bah) 

 

Have you...not played many games on Wii? I only ask because your complaints about using the Move Gun didn’t really apply when using the Wiimote + Nunchuck control scheme. At least, in my experience.

I played more with Move than Wii. Why don’t they apply?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I played more with Move than Wii. Why don’t they apply?

Cool cool. I always wanted to try Move but for whatever reason it never happened for me. Glad it’s basically getting a second life with VR...something else I’ve been meaning to try but haven’t gotten around to yet. :( 

 

But yeah, many of the drawbacks you mentioned before are alleviated by the Wiimote + Nunchuck...it’s basically a full controller (12 buttons, analog stick, IR aiming, plus motion/gyro) so *nearly* any kind of game can be played with it (I wouldn’t recommend traditional fighting games with it, lol). Developers figured out the “dead area” so turning is quick and easy (games like The Conduit and others actually let you customize this aspect), and arms don’t really get tired since you can just have your hands at your side, on your lap, or resting on the couch/chair or armrest. The IR aiming doesn’t take much movement to be effective. (As this old Penny-Arcade comic demonstrates:)

 

spacer.png

 

Even in a game where switching from a shooting to driving a vehicle was made easy (thanks to the analog stick, mostly)...check out Battalion Wars 2 for proof of that. 

 

That had been my experience with Wii controls, anyway. YMMV, of course. :peace:

 

Someday I need to really sit down and learn keyboard/mouse controls. I’ve heard people swear by it (including my IRL friends) but I never wrapped my brain around those inputs. :( 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've played with the Wii nunchuck/Wii mote, I believe it is almost functionally identical to the Move set-up.  Except, I believe the Move has more triggers, and a slightly different button layout.  When I played Resistance, I put it in a plastic gun shell which IMHO, made it more "immersive" (to coin the VR-term).

playstation_move_controllers.jpg

 

5246910231_461b2bf347_o.jpg

The fundamental challenge when using a two handed controller (like Wiimote and nunchuck) , is that you don't have a second hand to "brace" the controller.  You really only have access to the face buttons that are almost directly under your thumb while you are aiming.  You have to stop aiming and reposition your hand to get access to the other buttons.  When you need to be able to access ironsights/shoot/jump/crouch/run/reload/grenade/distract(whistle/throw rock)/melee/switch weapon/map/interact etc., you either need to significantly dumb-down the controls or come up with a new controller to play these kind of games with this controller setup.  I think it is telling that most developers stopped supporting them for FPS games on PS3.

 

The reality is, I don't believe it could handle the complexity of an open world shooter (like Far Cry), and I don't believe the hit-box "freelook" systems are precise/fast enough to play a fast-paced shooter like Doom or online CoD.  (The poor precision of the IR aiming on WIi could be improved with a more modern controller tracking system.)

 

Mouse/KB is the best control system I have ever used for FPS/strategy games (IMHO, it doesn't work well for ALL genres of games).  The mouse is very precise/fast to aim, and you have a ton of buttons on the mouse/KB to quickly pick actions.  Once you get used to the WASD-claw, it's all good.  Based on your previous posts, I don't get the impression that you really play these kind of games though...

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@AbsolutSurgen

 

Interesting thoughts! 

 

I feel that, in concerns to there not being enough buttons/buttons aren't easy enough to reach, a controller redesign could easily fix. The Wiimote and Move were literally the "first pass" at that kind of control scheme. With some more R & D behind it and the constantly evolving technology that is developed over time...who is to say your concerns couldn't be allayed? I mean, even the Wiimote and Move could handle games that need that many commands/inputs. In fact, it is kind of funny that you mention Far Cry specifically as a game too complicated for a two-handed controller...since Far Cry: Vengeance was actually on Wii, lol. And functionally, it all worked. (though it was a crap port with terrible A.I. and filled with bugs/glitches...so maybe not the best example, haha) 

 

I think we'll have to agree to disagree about speed/precision for online games like DOOM or Call of Duty since playing those with a Wiimote basically made the player over powered compared to dual analog players. I've actually experienced this a bit first-hand myself. I was recently playing my son (local multiplayer) and I was using the Wiimote and he was using a Pro Controller...and he was baffled at how quickly and easily I was taking him down. And he's young, but he's no stranger to shooters. He mops the floor with me in Fortnite and other games of that ilk. But in a game where I get to use the ease and intuitiveness of IR aiming? Oh man it's a completely different story. :p 

 

And yeah, while I'm no stranger to shooters (I try a lot of them out) it's definitely NOT my favorite genre. Not by a long shot (er...no pun intended?). And I like *turn-based* strategy games. Real-time ones (like, Starcraft or something) I don't have much experience with. I suspect with a keyboard it might make having enough functioning buttons a complete non-issue, so I definitely see the advantage there. But for shooters....I dunno. I MUST be doing something wrong because I often find myself trying to aim or turn or whatever, but running out of real estate on the mousepad/desk/table that I'm playing on. The set up is very uncomfortable to me as well - I feel like I have tendonitis or something after having played a PC game for more than 30 minutes, lol. 

 

In any case, I suppose its moot point since it seems the mentality of gamers (and developers) have clearly made their choice, and dual analog is here to stay. Which...I mean, is fine. Dual analog was never broken or unusable or anything like that. But I personally can't shake the feeling that IR aiming could have been the future for the shooter genre. In my mind, it's almost like IR aiming was the equivalent to the introduction of the analog stick back in the mid '90s. But instead of embracing this new control input, everyone was like, "NO! The d-pad is fine, we don't want a new way to control our games!" And the industry just went on, playing 3D games with a digital cross pad, unwilling or unable to accept the fact that a far better control option was available to them. But was rejected and forgotten over time. Think about how terrible modern gaming would be if that had happened...! :/

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Devs are scared to even put motion aim assist in their shooters, except on Nintendo platforms where it’s more readily accepted, for that reason.  Just that little bit of extra control can be an advantage.  Splatoon players in particular swear by it being superior.  Same with Doom on Switch.

 

IR aiming could be even worse.  I could see many people not preferring to play that way, but get mopped up by those who have put in the time with it.  There’d have to be some adjustments to an auto-aim handicap.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

Devs are scared to even put motion aim assist in their shooters, except on Nintendo platforms where it’s more readily accepted, for that reason.  Just that little bit of extra control can be an advantage.  Splatoon players in particular swear by it being superior.  Same with Doom on Switch.

 

IR aiming could be even worse.  I could see many people not preferring to play that way, but get mopped up by those who have put in the time with it.  There’d have to be some adjustments to an auto-aim handicap.

 

If that’s your argument, KB/M would destroy both. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/17/2019 at 8:19 AM, Zaku3 said:

New Switch got announced. Same performance but way better battery life. 4.5 hours to 9 hours vs the current 2.5 hours to 5 hours.

Not really a "new" Switch, just a slightly updated build of the original hardware. The better battery life is intriguing. I might get this (along with the Lite) but likely not right away. 

 

With the hardware revisions we've seen already, I wonder how soon it will be before we see a "Switch Lite Pro" (or whatever) that is the same form factor of the Lite but is also dockable. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With the improved battery life, Nintendo could have created a profile system similar to a laptop where the user can pick between a battery mode which is the current clocked speed and a performance mode that has a higher clocked speed.  There are some games in handheld that could really use the extra boost. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I misread your post. 

 

They’re not scared of it. They just don’t care because players don’t want it. 

 

Currently, players do seem to want it on Nintendo platforms, but nowhere else. Doom got lots of praise for it on the Switch.

 

IMO, it’s more of a case of ‘hardcore’ gamers fearing what they don’t understand.  Nintendo has been subtly sneaking motion aim assist into their games for years now.

 

Maybe some day, the industry will catch on as kids get older and the Wii is a distant memory.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

IMO, it’s more of a case of ‘hardcore’ gamers fearing what they don’t understand.

Wow, strong words. 

 

I'm not sure if that's entirely the reason, but there is probably some small truth to that. Looking forward to what the future holds! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...