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Keyser_Soze

General Gaming Death Stranding OT - Special Delivery

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6 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

Death Stranding is no harder or most esoteric to understand than when people first played Demon's Souls or Dark Souls. The game just requires a lot of patience (like Dark Souls), which is a big ask for some gamers, which is understandable to some degree, though I love Dark Souls and other esoteric and complicated gameplay systems so I'm all in by comparison. I don't mean to say Dark Souls and Death Stranding are otherwise anything alike, just that they are both complicated and abstract, just in very different ways. 

 

Some games seem overwhelming to me at first. Bloodborne being one, MGSV being another, Death Stranding being another. But they all certainly reward you immensely and continue to improve upon its mechanics, at least so far from what I've played in DS.

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10 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

I mean the game isn't complicated or complex at all. It has a million little systems but none of them are difficult to grasp. Most of them actually become irrelevant for large stretches of the game. Like how balance doesn't matter at all in vehicles, even on a bike. It feels like certain elements of the game got a LOT more attention than others. It makes vehicles objectively better for at least the first and second map (I've yet to progress beyond map 2), even on annoying terrain. Just take some materials with you and slap a bridge down if you need to. And while you're in the vehicle, you basically get to ignore every system except BTs, and even those are no more annoying than when on foot. Of course, vehicles being largely better would be fine if the vehicles themselves had any depth to their gameplay mechanics, but outside of the trike's ability to navigate more difficult terrain, they really don't. So you really do become a FedEx delivery boy. Some stuff like the zip lines is fun to construct but actually using them trivializes everything and somehow makes things more boring.


Basically everything you get doesn't really provide you with more options so much as function as a quasi fast-travel, where you're playing less game, but being more efficient.

 

I understand what you mean, but the same was the case for MGS5. I'm actually surprised how much of MGS5 is in this game. When you say: "can ignore many of the systems" that's because you've found your play style and thus you have no need for those other systems. Those other systems are there for other people who play differently than you would. In MGS5 I stealthed almost the entire game and was obsessed with fulton recovery of high rank soldiers - the game had tons of weapons and grenades and systems I never really used. But others liked blasting away through whole missions, or gunning everyone down, ignoring fulton recovery entirely, etc. 

 

In terms of future sci fi weirdness, DS is more MGS2 and MGS4, but in terms of gameplay, this game is almost entirely an extension and evolution of MGS5. How did you feel about that game? I loved it for the most part, and it seemed most others did. It had issues, but for the most part, great game.

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9 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Some games seem overwhelming to me at first. Bloodborne being one, MGSV being another, Death Stranding being another. But they all certainly reward you immensely and continue to improve upon its mechanics, at least so far from what I've played in DS.

 

It's exactly like MGS5 in a lot of ways, except delivery service game instead of stealth/action game so you are right on the money.

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24 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

I mean the game isn't complicated or complex at all. It has a million little systems but none of them are difficult to grasp. Most of them actually become irrelevant for large stretches of the game. Like how balance doesn't matter at all in vehicles, even on a bike. It feels like certain elements of the game got a LOT more attention than others. It makes vehicles objectively better for at least the first and second map (I've yet to progress beyond map 2), even on annoying terrain. Just take some materials with you and slap a bridge down if you need to. And while you're in the vehicle, you basically get to ignore every system except BTs, and even those are no more annoying than when on foot. Of course, vehicles being largely better would be fine if the vehicles themselves had any depth to their gameplay mechanics, but outside of the trike's ability to navigate more difficult terrain, they really don't. So you really do become a FedEx delivery boy. Some stuff like the zip lines is fun to construct but actually using them trivializes everything and somehow makes things more boring.


Basically everything you get doesn't really provide you with more options so much as function as a quasi fast-travel, where you're playing less game, but being more efficient.

I don't think they're difficult to grasp either, I simply meant that it takes a lot of investment to learn about the minutiae since everything is presented in text format etc. which is what I can see a lot of players bounce off of. 

 

The vehicles are undercooked I agree with you on that. They feel boring to use but then at the same time I like the act and sense of accomplishment of delivering multiple deliveries at once and/or a huge weighted one. It is a fault of the game though that I also dislike and vehicles just don't feel interesting to actually drive contrary to Sam feeling engaging and interest to control. Now the whole slapping down a bridge and creating the ideal route etc. I find exciting again on the other hand so it kind of balances out for me.

 

29 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

Death Stranding is no harder or most esoteric to understand than when people first played Demon's Souls or Dark Souls. The game just requires a lot of patience (like Dark Souls), which is a big ask for some gamers, which is understandable to some degree, though I love Dark Souls and other esoteric and complicated gameplay systems so I'm all in by comparison. I don't mean to say Dark Souls and Death Stranding are otherwise anything alike, just that they are both complicated and abstract, just in very different ways. 

I don't think it is either but we're on the exact same page here anyway. I'm also into that type of "learning" and with my comment I basically meant the same thing, that it's a big ask from some players, and understandably so, just already based on how all this information is presented.

 

I also agree with being surprised by just how much MGSV is in here, in a good way. It should've been called Death Stranding: The Pacifist Pain.

 

Tactical Delivery Operations

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4 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

I also agree with being surprised by just how much MGSV is in here, in a good way. It should've been called Death Stranding: The Pacifist Pain.

 

Tactical Delivery Operations

 

It definitely should have been. :lol:

 

I DO wish the text was much larger in the game, especially given that there's a lot of it.

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6 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

It definitely should have been. :lol:

 

I DO wish the text was much larger in the game, especially given that there's a lot of it.

Dude, that fucking text...

 

Why for god's sake do we still often not have text size options in huge console releases in the who-knows-how-many-eth year of huge ass HD TVs. I'm squinting for hours on end I feel like. 

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2 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

Dude, that fucking text...

 

Why for god's sake do we still often not have text size options in huge console releases in the who-knows-how-many-eth year of huge ass HD TVs. I'm squinting for hours on end I feel like. 

 

Agreed, no idea. I remember when God of War dropped a day one (or early) patch that let you make the text size bigger (it still wasn't big enough). The text really needs to be bigger in these games, but I have great eyesight and Death Stranding's text is tough to read easily when it gets real small with how to use items explanations.

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I am really struggling to understand the MGSV comparisons. There are some superficial similarities of course, like how you load out Sam and there being big, open areas. But that’s really it.

 

I’m maybe 20 hours into this game and there’s more variability in, say, how you could rescue Kaz in that single MGSV mission than there is in all of Death Stranding so far.

 

This isn’t a dig, I still find the game satisfying to play. But I don’t understand how that comparison holds up at all. There’s NOTHING in Death Stranding that even remotely approaches the gameplay creativity you could achieve in MGSV. Literally nothing at all.

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19 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

I am really struggling to understand the MGSV comparisons. There are some superficial similarities of course, like how you load out Sam and there being big, open areas. But that’s really it.

 

I’m maybe 20 hours into this game and there’s more variability in, say, how you could rescue Kaz in that single MGSV mission than there is in all of Death Stranding so far.

 

This isn’t a dig, I still find the game satisfying to play. But I don’t understand how that comparison holds up at all. There’s NOTHING in Death Stranding that even remotely approaches the gameplay creativity you could achieve in MGSV. Literally nothing at all.

It may have sounded that way but I wasn't trying to compare the two, I don't think they are. MGSV's Action/Stealth gameplay is of course way deeper like you said, there's no arguing that. 

 

Where I see big similarities is the general approach, structure and relative "freedom". There is the planning, the load-out phase like you said, the structure and design of the open world as more of a big-ass designed level serving purely the gameplay mechanics (I thought this of MGSV and it was pretty unique in how it complimented the missions), having several tools at your disposal for each type of game scenario but it being up to your creativity and preparedness to connect the dots, the general eccentricity of its ideas. But I'll be honest, to me there's just a huge general "vibe" of MGSV, like he took that foundation and made this bizarre pacifist delivery simulator based on it. 

 

And again, I don't mean to imply moment-to-moment gameplay is similar, it's not. A really important component for me that I do see though is that much like MGSV, shit can go totally haywire and the game always accounts for mechanics/tools that can interact with another to deal with a sudden shift in your mission trajectory if you're prepared. Of course you can play perfectly and see none of that but I never do and I'm playing on hard (for what that's worth) and especially in Chapter 3 before getting everyone on the network, I got into some crazy detours and cool MULE encounters forcing me to get creative and I thought it was incredibly fun and exciting. All that together reminds me a lot of MGSV in that I feel a lot of the same creativity, albeit in different ways obviously, going on. 

 

Edit: And for the record I also thought MGSV was flawed as fuck and it's still one of my most memorable and overall most played games of the generation. I don't care at all for that name-worship thing but I do appreciate eccentricity and self-indulgent creativity and MGSV and DS exist in the same space of that in my opinion. 

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On 11/18/2019 at 2:11 PM, Kal-El814 said:

I am really struggling to understand the MGSV comparisons. There are some superficial similarities of course, like how you load out Sam and there being big, open areas. But that’s really it.

 

I’m maybe 20 hours into this game and there’s more variability in, say, how you could rescue Kaz in that single MGSV mission than there is in all of Death Stranding so far.

 

This isn’t a dig, I still find the game satisfying to play. But I don’t understand how that comparison holds up at all. There’s NOTHING in Death Stranding that even remotely approaches the gameplay creativity you could achieve in MGSV. Literally nothing at all.

 

Basically the below. 

 

10 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

It may have sounded that way but I wasn't trying to compare the two, I don't think they are. MGSV's Action/Stealth gameplay is of course way deeper like you said, there's no arguing that. 

 

Where I see big similarities is the general approach, structure and relative "freedom". There is the planning, the load-out phase like you said, the structure and design of the open world as more of a big-ass designed level serving purely the gameplay mechanics (I thought this of MGSV and it was pretty unique in how it complimented the missions), having several tools at your disposal for each type of game scenario but it being up to your creativity and preparedness to connect the dots, the general eccentricity of its ideas. But I'll be honest, to me there's just a huge general "vibe" of MGSV, like he took that foundation and made this bizarre pacifist delivery simulator based on it. 

 

And again, I don't mean to imply moment-to-moment gameplay is similar, it's not. A really important component for me that I do see though is that much like MGSV, shit can go totally haywire and the game always accounts for mechanics/tools that can interact with another to deal with a sudden shift in your mission trajectory if you're prepared. Of course you can play perfectly and see none of that but I never do and I'm playing on hard (for what that's worth) and especially in Chapter 3 before getting everyone on the network, I got into some crazy detours and cool MULE encounters forcing me to get creative and I thought it was incredibly fun and exciting. All that together reminds me a lot of MGSV in that I feel a lot of the same creativity, albeit in different ways obviously, going on. 

 

Edit: And for the record I also thought MGSV was flawed as fuck and it's still one of my most memorable and overall most played games of the generation. I don't care at all for that name-worship thing but I do appreciate eccentricity and self-indulgent creativity and MGSV and DS exist in the same space of that in my opinion. 

 

They aren't the same, but the amount of menus and UI's and interfaces, the way you select items and how each item does multiple things and has certain ways of being used, load outs, the general feeling and weight of the way the character controls and importantly the FOV of the game all feel like MGS5 to me. Bloodporne said the rest best - they are very different games and yet not in subtler ways.

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A note I forgot to mention earlier - you can also adjust where BB's cries and whimpers and laughs, etc. come from as well (whether you want it to come from the PS4 controller speaker or your TV speakers). Some may not be aware of that as well as getting rid of the BB soothing motion controls. 

 

Edit: Mamoru Oshii, one of my favorite anime directors (responsible for Patlabor movies 1 and 2, both Ghost in the Shell movies, The Sky Crawlers) was interviewed about his thoughts playing Death Stranding and it was a really humble and nice interview, regardless of how you feel about the game. People should check it out! Oshii rarely does interviews like this (I can't believe he's now 68 years old). 

 

 

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On 11/18/2019 at 12:05 PM, Xbob42 said:

I mean the game isn't complicated or complex at all. It has a million little systems but none of them are difficult to grasp. Most of them actually become irrelevant for large stretches of the game. Like how balance doesn't matter at all in vehicles, even on a bike. It feels like certain elements of the game got a LOT more attention than others. It makes vehicles objectively better for at least the first and second map (I've yet to progress beyond map 2), even on annoying terrain. Just take some materials with you and slap a bridge down if you need to. And while you're in the vehicle, you basically get to ignore every system except BTs, and even those are no more annoying than when on foot. Of course, vehicles being largely better would be fine if the vehicles themselves had any depth to their gameplay mechanics, but outside of the trike's ability to navigate more difficult terrain, they really don't. So you really do become a FedEx delivery boy. Some stuff like the zip lines is fun to construct but actually using them trivializes everything and somehow makes things more boring.


Basically everything you get doesn't really provide you with more options so much as function as a quasi fast-travel, where you're playing less game, but being more efficient.

 

Seems a BIT reductive, but sure I guess ( btw to any fed ex staff reading this, deepest respect and sympathies for enduring all those firefights with terrorists and random encounters with interdimensional ghost monsters made of fossil fuels who you can't even see until after recharging and plugging in your company baby/ghost detector in the rain that fast forwards time).  

 

Look, it's just a fact that most story-driven open world games - DS included - already employ a "go here and do this" style of design.  Sometimes it can feel more or less noticeable, but at core it's usually there. There's definitely some intentional absurdity in the degree to which it's a focus in DS, which is probably what you're reacting to.  These subversions of established open world game tropes, from the approach to combat design, errand-style missions, what a game's story can be, etc if nothing else is what's giving it most of the appeal it has so far.  Also unless you're a weirdo who's only playing it to be a Kojima stan or feel seen as an antisocial trucker or something you can't help but get emotions while playing it that you don't feel often in video games, even though as always whether or not it's good entertainment or art or whatever is going to be subjective.  For me, repetitive as the gameplay can be, the imagery, mystique and mechanical depth of it and the overall experience feeling so new and different keeps me engaged, even if it's not technically always fun to play. 

 

So yeah, most of DS is a courier game, but to its credit, fuck all if its also not THE most interesting game about playing as a courier that could possibly be made lol.

 

 

____

 

 

Bouncing off the Metal Gear/Death stranding discussion: Has anyone else who grew up loving MGS recently played them for the first time in several years?  What was your reaction?  I just fired up 2 and 3 and the amount of cutscenes was hella jarring to me lol.  I still like both the gameplay and stories in the series, but the gameplay to cinematic ratio is definitely more enjoyable in Kojima's later stuff I think.

 

 Shifting back to Death Stranding, an early observation/possible spoiler (?), maybe not, but just in case

 

 

Spoiler

 Anyone who's suffered through my posts knows I can be a pretty clumsy writer, which is maybe why I'm hit or miss at predicting narrative. But having familiarity with all the MGS games, it's difficult to not feel some butterflies in the gut that the side of Kojima who loves clowning on his more toxic gamerbro fanbase ( "MGS isn't political!", fans who for whatever reason had strong reactions to the bait and switch of MGS2 starring the more feminine Raiden instead of Snake, for example) could potentially be in full effect at some point to a degree which those fans might find uncomfortable for one reason or another, though it's difficult to know for sure until getting a better sense of where its story is going.  If Kojima decides to lean into the satirical potential of DS's premise as much as possible, either in this game or a sequel, the comments in spoiler discussions online could end up getting quite gud. ^__^  

   

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1 hour ago, fuckle85 said:

So yeah, most of DS is a courier game, but to its credit,  fuck all if its also not THE most interesting game about playing as a courier that could possibly be made lol.


And how many courier/ delivery games have you played in order to make this statement?

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16 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:


And how many courier/ delivery games have you played in order to make this statement?

I mean in games like Dragon Quest you need to travel across areas, fight monsters along the way, do something or pick up something, and then return back to where the quest originated. Same with Spider-Man. Same with Xenoblade. Same with Y’s VIII. Etc. etc. etc.  All of those games are fun fetch quests. Death Stranding is no different it’s just presented in a somewhat modern day delivery system world. But to me personally, I think it’s outstanding and one of the best games every labeled a fetch quest rpg. 

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2 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:


And how many courier/ delivery games have you played in order to make this statement?

 

That truck driving sim and Elite Dangerous, so not that many I guess lol. At least as far as courier sims go.  If I'm being honest most open world games - including GTA, Zelda, Horizon, The Witcher, Fallout, Assassin's Creed, etc - all feel like "courier games" to me in the sense that the mission structure mostly has you meeting a character and they ask you to do a favor, you use transportation to go from point a to point be or maybe c and get it done and move on to the next one.  Something I can actually agree with Biggie on is most open world games have a task assignment aspect to their gameplay, which can be appealing to many gamers for different reasons.  

 

It's definitely more of a focus in DS, but I felt like a courier in tons of games. I dunno, most of what I've played in general (which isn't much tbh, I tend to go through less than ten or so games a year) isn't as interesting as DS to me.  More fun? Sure. Monkey Ball and Star Wars put me in a better mood than any game in recent memory but Death Stranding has me too because I can't remember the last time a sci-fi horror premise in any visual media since maybe Sunshine or Annihilation had me as fascinated from second one.

 

A post apocalyptic world where there's some mysterious event that makes earth look like another planet, and some dimension called the beach makes every person who dies explode into a nuclear weapon because of the appearance of an unknown chemical element that makes rain speed up time and bring out interdimensional ghosts who grab you and make you fight large monsters made of fossil fuels unless you plug a baby into your suit which lets you see them?  I NEED to know if any of this will make sense.  Will it? Should it?  No idea, but fuck all if it isn't interesting! 

 

I'm just a sucker for new visuals and stories, and I've never experienced anything like it.  Are there any stories that are similar to it? Any movies with that visual style?  Who knows if it will stick the landing, but it's been quite an experience so far.

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Fetch quests are not courier games so I will dismiss them from all statements.

 

Things like ATS or ETS definitely count. Spin tires a bit. Courier crisis maybe. GTA comes closest in an open world game but it’s not the focus.

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1 hour ago, Keyser_Soze said:

Fetch quests are not courier games so I will dismiss them from all statements.

 

Things like ATS or ETS definitely count. Spin tires a bit. Courier crisis maybe. GTA comes closest in an open world game but it’s not the focus.

 

I mean, those are courier sims, so yeah.  :p

 

Fetch questing itself is essentially like being a courier though, isn;t it?

 

At least a lot of the time, even if it's not the main thing that makes those games enjoyable since of course most games with fetch questing tend to be appealing despite that aspect of the gameplay... Zelda and Bioshock, for example. 

 

Missions/quest design in open world games too will offer more tasks than strictly delivering items, but the general action of traveling from point a to b to do jobs for characters is prevalent and feels courier-esque, at least to me.  In contrast, stuff like Journey, Riven, Ico, Dark Souls, classic Resident Evil, Minecraft, competitive multiplayer, and tons of arcadey games with levels instead of one large map, etc maintain a sense of progression that feels less guided than that quest/mission structure. And even open world games tend to have so much stuff to do beyond the main or side missions that playing them transcends the repetitiveness of the gameplay and doesn't feel as much like that's what you're doing, and like you said it definitely won't feel as couriery as games like Truck Simulator or Death Stranding where delivering parcels is an intentional focal point of the gameplay. 

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5 hours ago, fuckle85 said:

( btw to any fed ex staff reading this, deepest respect and sympathies for enduring all those firefights with terrorists and random encounters with interdimensional ghost monsters made of fossil fuels who you can't even see until after recharging and plugging in your company baby/ghost detector in the rain that fast forwards time).  

Ah, you make the dangers of the Death Stranding world sound so much more interesting than they actually are. That's my main criticism of Death Stranding: Kojima takes a bunch of really interesting and seemingly cool shit and finds a way to make it unbelievably lame. Fending off an actual drunk homeless dude would be more exciting while delivering someone's dildos in real life.

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Monster Hunter is a strand game because you have to carry eggs back to your camp and you have to avoid fights, it's very tense and if you get hit the egg will break!

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17 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I will say that from what I've seen, the music in this game sounds amazing. Who did it?

Your Mom

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43 minutes ago, Mercury33 said:


lol you really took all this shit personally didn’t you. Sad. 

You really took all this shit seriously didn’t you. Dumb af. 

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3 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I will say that from what I've seen, the music in this game sounds amazing. Who did it?

 

That CHVRCHES song is all you need.

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1 hour ago, atom631 said:

Dunkey chimes in

lol'd at this KH part. Prolly spoilers. 

Spoiler

 

 

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19 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I will say that from what I've seen, the music in this game sounds amazing. Who did it?

Several bands, one that pops up a lot is Low Roar. The actual songs work really well in context but not a fan myself but the Ambient music that often kicks in randomly throughout the world and while resting is absolutely fantastic and unfortunately I haven't seen it pop up as part of an OST or so. 

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19 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I will say that from what I've seen, the music in this game sounds amazing. Who did it?

Correction, seems like there is a soundtrack for this specifically, made by a Ludvig Forssell. 

 

 

A lot of Tangerine Dream and Vangelis style mood in this if that's what you were looking for. The actual vocal tracks are by various bands like Low Roar, CHVRCHES and others.

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5 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

Correction, seems like there is a soundtrack for this specifically, made by a Ludvig Forssell. 

 

 

A lot of Tangerine Dream and Vangelis style mood in this if that's what you were looking for. The actual vocal tracks are by various bands like Low Roar, CHVRCHES and others.

The score is what I was talking about.

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@Greatoneshere

 

Have you tried throwing Ex Grenades at MULE dudes? I was going to try each one and see what happens when you nail them with a shower water, piss or shit grenade but got side-tracked as always. 

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14 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

@Greatoneshere

 

Have you tried throwing Ex Grenades at MULE dudes? I was going to try each one and see what happens when you nail them with a shower water, piss or shit grenade but got side-tracked as always. 

I always use the bola gun. Next time I’ll try the grenades. I haven’t used any of the smoke or decoy packages either. Have you tried those?

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1 hour ago, Bloodporne said:

@Greatoneshere

 

Have you tried throwing Ex Grenades at MULE dudes? I was going to try each one and see what happens when you nail them with a shower water, piss or shit grenade but got side-tracked as always. 

 

1 hour ago, Biggie said:

I always use the bola gun. Next time I’ll try the grenades. I haven’t used any of the smoke or decoy packages either. Have you tried those?

 

I have not tried it on MULE's yet, haven't had to, but I was so busy maxing out the first area that I'm just now into episode 3 and the new area haha. But I will definitely try it to see what happens.

 

Same goes for decoy packages, which I just now received and can use. :)

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