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Keyser_Soze

General Gaming Death Stranding OT - Special Delivery

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19 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

Right now it's a RDBX contender for me.

 

Sounds disappointing as fuck overall and and I find it even weirder and more irritating that somehow half the impressions seem to have wildly differing takes on the quality of its gameplay.

 

I've read a lot of reviews and I haven't once seen anyone mention MGS in any other way than 'this is the total opposite'. What makes it exciting for MGS fans in your experience, can you elaborate?

 

What is RDBX?

 

So I only played the ending moments of the first act, then several hours after the gameplay opens up.  It’s tough to mention any details without spoilers since so much of the fun is figuring out how to react to all the surprising and weird moments while wondering what the story is about, but I’ll say this: at some point fairly early on it becomes much less of a sloggy hiking and delivery guy simulator and plays more like the action games Kojima is known for (if you want to play it that way or not, it’s up to you) and there’s a reason why reviewers are not talking about it very much. It could ruin your experience if I say much else. Just go in with an open mind, prepare to be in think mode and go through some emotional labor, expect engaging mechanics and an evolution of the MGS storytelling and cut scene direction and it will probably click.  MGS's fanbase might be confused at first, but there will be many who praise DS no matter what, some will not get what it’s going for, etc. I think it will be worth playing at least once though and it's gonna be fun and interesting to see everyone's reactions.

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1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said:

It's a fucking Kojima game. If you like Kojma games, you'll love this game. If you don't, then you won't. It's literally as simple as that. For me, I'm glad we're getting Kojima going full Kojima. I'm shocked people even need reviews. Do you like Kojima? Play the game. Do you not? Don't, and go play The Witcher 3 or any number of other games that aren't like Kojima.

From the impressions I have heard and read, this is absolutely not true. 

 

One of the biggest Kojima fans on the planet, Dan Ryckert, called it his least favorite AAA video game of all time. 

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7 minutes ago, Paperclyp said:

From the impressions I have heard and read, this is absolutely not true. 

 

One of the biggest Kojima fans on the planet, Dan Ryckert, called it his least favorite AAA video game of all time. 

 

I'm not saying Kojima fans can't end up not liking the game - once they play it. But if you are a Kojima fan, not to even try such a bizarre and unique game because of reviews, when this game was always going to be divisive?

 

Yeah, I think that's silly. If you are a Kojima fan, find out for yourself.

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41 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I'm not saying Kojima fans can't end up not liking the game - once they play it. But if you are a Kojima fan, not to even try such a bizarre and unique game because of reviews, when this game was always going to be divisive?

 

Yeah, I think that's silly. If you are a Kojima fan, find out for yourself.

That’s fine. That’s very different than what you said to start with though lol. 

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21 minutes ago, Paperclyp said:

That’s fine. That’s very different than what you said to start with though lol. 

 

My apologies, I should have been clearer. I felt what you said was a given implicitly within my post haha. :)

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1 hour ago, fuckle85 said:

What is RDBX?

I am assuming its some weird short hand for Red Box.

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11 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

I've liked most of Kojima's stuff and that includes games most of y'all haven't played. 

 

That said, this has pretty much zero appeal to me. 

How dare you! You owe it to the universe to spend $60. on a game that has absolutely no appeal to you and play it despite folks who have played it saying you probably won't like it because Kojima. Whoever was asking if Kojima syndrome was a real thing need only read some of the posts in this topic. 

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13 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

How dare you! You owe it to the universe to spend $60. on a game that has absolutely no appeal to you and play it despite folks who have played it saying you probably won't like it because Kojima. Whoever was asking if Kojima syndrome was a real thing need only read some of the posts in this topic. 

 

Welp, you clearly didn't understand my post. Because that's not what I was saying. If this was aimed at me anyway lol. If someone knows this game doesn't appeal to them anyway that's fine but if you are basing whether you play this game or not based on reviews IF you are a Kojima fan? That doesn't make sense to me, as it doesn't with any divisive artist. 

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2 hours ago, Paperclyp said:

From the impressions I have heard and read, this is absolutely not true. 

 

One of the biggest Kojima fans on the planet, Dan Ryckert, called it his least favorite AAA video game of all time. 

 

Well a lot of DS by design seems like an intentional reaction to and subversion of most AAA open world design tropes. 

 

Look, there's a saying that at heart there are two film direction styles: Give audiences what they want (James Cameron, MCU films, Brad Bird, etc) and give the audience what they need (Kubrick, Lynch, Peele, Herzog) and of course there are also directors interested in doing both (Tarantino, Del Toro, Nolan).  

 

It's possible the main distinction between Kojima's creative output now vs then is that he was more interested in doing the former, and now he's more interested in doing the latter.  And the reactions being all over the place make sense because not everyone wants what they need or needs what they want.  Reactions to movies like 2001, Taxi Driver and Eraserhead were similarly divisive for their time. 

 

But it bears repeating that reviewers have been instructed to avoid going into much detail about the game so we won't know for sure what's on our hands until after playing through the whole 50 hour experience. 

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13 minutes ago, fuckle85 said:

 

Well a lot of DS by design seems like an intentional reaction to and subversion of most AAA open world design tropes. 

 

Look, there's a saying that at heart there are two film direction styles: Give audiences what they want (James Cameron, MCU films, Brad Bird, etc) and give the audience what they need (Kubrick, Lynch, Peele, Herzog) and of course there are also directors interested in doing both (Tarantino, Del Toro, Nolan).  

 

It's possible the main distinction between Kojima's creative output now vs then is that he was more interested in doing the former, and now he's more interested in doing the latter.  And the reactions being all over the place make sense because not everyone wants what they need or needs what they want.  Reactions to movies like 2001, Taxi Driver and Eraserhead were similarly divisive for their time. 

 

But it bears repeating that reviewers have been instructed to avoid going into much detail about the game so we won't know for sure what's on our hands until after playing through the whole 50 hour experience. 

Let me just first say that I am interested in the game, will not hold any significant opinion on the work itself until I play it myself, and I go in pretty open minded. That said...

 

Listen, I love kojima. 

 

He’s not as dense as his critics would have you think, but by the same token the man is hailed as an absolute genius by some, and that’s also going too far. As an avid critic of centrist takes, I am actually a kojima centrist. 

 

It was always a bit hard to tell how seriously he took himself since he couched a lot of metal gear in goofy humor. It seems DS is lacking in that department, so his story telling has to be taken a lot more at face value, and holy shit does it sound like it does not deliver in that department. It also sounds like he has a lot of fascinating gameplay ideas that do not come together in a great way.

 

People are going to have different tolerances to that, and it seems like for some the game really clicks in a zen-like way, but for even those people they seem to couch their praise with a hundred caveats and awareness that hey, this shit is very flawed. 

 

I dont really know where I was going with this, but there is certainly a certain sect of people online starting to spin a narrative that if you don’t like the game you don’t get it, and I think that gives kojima way too much credit when it’s not necessarily deserved. 

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18 minutes ago, Paperclyp said:

Let me just first say that I am interested in the game, will not hold any significant opinion on the work itself until I play it myself, and I go in pretty open minded. That said...

 

Listen, I love kojima. 

 

He’s not as dense as his critics would have you think, but by the same token the man is hailed as an absolute genius by some, and that’s also going too far. As an avid critic of centrist takes, I am actually a kojima centrist. 

 

It was always a bit hard to tell how seriously he took himself since he couched a lot of metal gear in goofy humor. It seems DS is lacking in that department, so his story telling has to be taken a lot more at face value, and holy shit does it sound like it does not deliver in that department. It also sounds like he has a lot of fascinating gameplay ideas that do not come together in a great way.

 

People are going to have different tolerances to that, and it seems like for some the game really clicks in a zen-like way, but for even those people they seem to couch their praise with a hundred caveats and awareness that hey, this shit is very flawed. 

 

I dont really know where I was going with this, but there is certainly a certain sect of people online starting to spin a narrative that if you don’t like the game you don’t get it, and I think that gives kojima way too much credit when it’s not necessarily deserved. 

 

Well agree to disagree about there being no humor in the game.  There's definitely quite a bit from what I noticed in my time playing it, so I'm not sure it's quite as serious as a lot of the marketing makes it seem.  There could be some truth to how you think reactions online are/will be, be it from reviewers or audiences in general maybe.  I think we will know for sure starting in about a week!

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3 hours ago, SimpleG said:

I am assuming its some weird short hand for Red Box.

GOTY contender --> RDBX contender

 

Was making a joke that it currently looks like a rental at most for me based on some of the hideous responses.

 

Unrelated to your post though:

 

I was totally on board and loved the idea of him branching out and doing something totally different...assuming it sounds exciting and fun to play to me. Reviews frequently drop the words slog, boring and tedious, even the positive ones like it's a goddamn bold artistic move now. That's absurd to me, massively.

 

That being said, I still want to get my hands on it because in MGSV that savvy bastard even managed to make the simple act of running feel exciting so I need to feel if maybe the mere act of traversal is enticing enough with its balancing etc. which it may well be and some reviewers just think that's lame.

 

Just as of now I don't care who made it, reading those words over and over combined with shit like 'the first xyz hours are terrible and oh yeah the last ten suck balls too' makes the game sound atrocious on paper.

 

If this wasn't Kojima I wouldn't even rent the thing from Redbox.

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6 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

It's a fucking Kojima game. If you like Kojma games, you'll love this game. If you don't, then you won't. It's literally as simple as that. For me, I'm glad we're getting Kojima going full Kojima. I'm shocked people even need reviews. Do you like Kojima? Play the game. Do you not? Don't, and go play The Witcher 3 or any number of other games that aren't like Kojima.

 

Not accurate. Dany Ryckert is the biggest Kojima fanboy and says Death Stranding is his most hated game ever.

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4 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Not accurate. Dany Ryckert is the biggest Kojima fanboy and says Death Stranding is his most hated game ever.

 

Again, read the rest of my posts. I wasn't saying you can't be a Kojima fan and hate the game, I just think it's stupid to pre-judge it if you're a Kojima fan. It might be your brand of weird! Find out for yourself is all.

 

Or, I dunno. Be a fucking robot and just listen to what reviews said. If I did that I'd have missed out on a ton of "poorly reviewed" games that were actually great. The only person in this thread who has played it is @fuckle85 and he enjoyed it, so . . . 

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Just now, Greatoneshere said:

 

Again, read the rest of my posts. I wasn't saying you can't be a Kojima fan and hate the game, I just think it's stupid to pre-judge it if you're a Kojima fan. It might be your brand of weird! Find out for yourself is all.

 

Or, I dunno. Be a fucking robot and just listen to what reviews said. If I did that I'd have missed out on a ton of "poorly reviewed" games that were actually great.

 

Have you seen any footage of the game? This looks nothing like a "Kojima game" I'm not following reviews and if you read the rest of MY posts I say I like ATS and am possibly intrigued, just not $60 intrigued.

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6 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Have you seen any footage of the game? This looks nothing like a "Kojima game" I'm not following reviews and if you read the rest of MY posts I say I like ATS and am possibly intrigued, just not $60 intrigued.

 

It absolutely looks like a Kojima game. Weird, obtuse, abstract, difficult to suss out, weird, strange. Yes, that's a Kojima game. It's just not MGS for the first time in awhile is all. I read your posts, but your response didn't seem to take into account mine so unsure what your posts have to do with the point. Also LOL @ gamers complaining at $60. I just said that then fine, go play another game, but this is a Kojima game, so yes, go in expecting long cutscenes, overwrought dialogue, mega melodrama, etc. What the fuck have you all been playing for years? That's Kojima.

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Remember guys, if you take reviews into consideration, you're a fucking robot. Spend all your money on every game because there's a chance it might be good!

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4 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

Remember guys, if you take reviews into consideration, you're a fucking robot. Spend all your money on every game because there's a chance it might be good!

 

Oh right, I forgot, it's cool to mischaracterize a person's posts. I said, for the last goddamn time, if you're a major Kojima fan, I think reviews won't do you any good here, simple as that. It's not a hard concept, but I'm not surprised people would rather characterize my argument as something else.

 

I don't begrudge anyone who doesn't bother with the game anyway, but I have found that it's best just to find out for yourself depending on where your fandom is. It's like how people on the Current Events board think Buttigieg is authentic or solicitation isn't a crime in itself before quid pro quo for impeachment. Maybe we should inform ourselves first? Just a thought. 

 

Hilarious, "spend all your money". My first post literally said: "there's plenty of games out there for you to buy if you aren't a Kojima fan interested in Death Stranding". And yes, I think ambitious failures are worth spending you money on, film, TV, manga, books, games, or otherwise. Certainly more worthwhile than funding the typical BS. You like Disco Elysium, I know you know what I mean.

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I think gameplay-wise it doesn't necessarily scream Kojima. I mean, for all intents and purposes, a "Kojima game" is Metal Gear Solid. And while he has had a hand in other games here and there, none of it culminated into any sort of consistent style that we can expect from him, again, gameplay-wise. 

 

Everything else, sure. 

 

I think saying, hey if you like Kojima's heavy handed and quirky story telling, you might like DS is about as definitive of a statement that you can make at this point. Because fans of Kojima and fans of MGS - not to mention people who don't particularly have any affinity for the dude, like Rob Zacny (who happens to like the game) - have played it and the impressions are all over the map. 

 

I agree people could read your subsequent posts @Greatoneshere and get some more context, but that one post is mired with that "simple as that" little paragraph, and even after clarifying it's just a very striking thing to post, and people are going to latch on to it. 

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5 minutes ago, Paperclyp said:

I think gameplay-wise it doesn't necessarily scream Kojima. I mean, for all intents and purposes, a "Kojima game" is Metal Gear Solid. And while he has had a hand in other games here and there, none of it culminated into any sort of consistent style that we can expect from him, again, gameplay-wise. 

 

Everything else, sure. 

 

I think saying, hey if you like Kojima's heavy handed and quirky story telling, you might like DS is about as definitive of a statement that you can make at this point. Because fans of Kojima and fans of MGS - not to mention people who don't particularly have any affinity for the dude, like Rob Zacny (who happens to like the game) - have played it and the impressions are all over the map. 

 

I agree people could read your subsequent posts @Greatoneshere and get some more context, but that one post is mired with that "simple as that" little paragraph, and even after clarifying it's just a very striking thing to post, and people are going to latch on to it. 

 

Hey I apologized and said I should have been clearer! Fuck, what else do people want on a message board? Let them latch. Everyone seems ready to hate the game and I plan on going in open minded on Friday. I am not surprised in the least by the reviews. I loved MGS4 and that got the same mixed reception. :p 

 

Guys, it's Kojima. It's MGS4 on steroids. It's gonna be hackneyed, ridiculous, stupid, hilarious, fun, terrible, etc. I mean . . . that's been all Kojima games. Just because it isn't a nice, snug genre means nothing. No one is doing what he is doing, Whether it's good or bad, thank fuck for something different.

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5 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

Everyone seems ready to hate the game and I plan on going in open minded on Friday.

Oh yeah, you've come across as super open minded. You definitely don't have any preconceived expectations here. :p

 

You know, like your next paragraph!

5 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

Guys, it's Kojima. It's MGS4 on steroids. It's gonna be hackneyed, ridiculous, stupid, hilarious, fun, terrible, etc. I mean . . . that's been all Kojima games. Just because it isn't a nice, snug genre means nothing. No one is doing what he is doing, Whether it's good or bad, thank fuck for something different.

Open minded to everything except the possibility that the reviewers miiiight be right!

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3 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

Oh yeah, you've come across as super open minded. You definitely don't have any preconceived expectations here. :p

 

You know, like your next paragraph!

Open minded to everything except the possibility that the reviewers miiiight be right!

 

No, I don't question they are right! They might be.

 

My post is specifically directed at die-hard Kojima fans. All I'm saying is, the trailers are intriguing and it's full Kojima. Let's find out! This is a game everyone will want to play and discuss. Why miss out? Playing it will probably be an experience in and of itself, and I ain't missing that. 

 

Edit: I'm sorry, I just beat Disco Elysium. That game was fucking good bru, right?

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quick reminder that I only played a chunk of it in one sitting and also reviewers are instructed by Sony(?) to not go into any spoilers or details.  There's so much unprecedented and weird stuff from moment to moment in DS that it's a feat of writing imo to do a comprehensive enough review of it or even show 20 minutes of interesting gameplay without spoiling anything. So, with that in mind, if you're waiting for impressions before deciding whether or not to bonk down the 60 or more bucks, might be better to rent it or wait for reactions, playthroughs and write-ups after the official release, y'know

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Part of me is tempted to get it SO I can discuss it on this board... except when I hear things like "Boring" and "tedious" in describing gameplay in a videogame, those are not words that are selling points to me. And these are from the positive reviews :lol:

 

 

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1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

It absolutely looks like a Kojima game. Weird, obtuse, abstract, difficult to suss out, weird, strange.

 

No it looks nothing like that.

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48 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

No, I don't question they are right! They might be.

 

My post is specifically directed at die-hard Kojima fans. All I'm saying is, the trailers are intriguing and it's full Kojima. Let's find out! This is a game everyone will want to play and discuss. Why miss out? Playing it will probably be an experience in and of itself, and I ain't missing that. 

 

Edit: I'm sorry, I just beat Disco Elysium. That game was fucking good bru, right?

Oh I have nothing against people trying the game, by all means it sounds like if you end up liking it (via Stockholm syndrome based on one review?) then you really like it. I'd just... maybe consider a Redbox or Gamefly rental or something first. I mean, the divisive reviews have made me more interested than I was previously (which was not at all) because I find building infrastructure to make things accomplished easier very satisfying, might be wish fulfillment since that kind of shit never happens here in America.

 

So maybe there's something for there for me and I'll end up a raving lunatic trying to convince everyone of Kojima's brilliance... but I'm gonna rent it first because there's no way I'm risking $60 on this! And yes, Disco is an amazing game that too few people will play. If you like weird esoteric shit that's a little more subtle than "the cell phones are literally handcuffs" then it's something worth looking into!

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Wrestling fans: I’m worried that Kojima is basically Vince Russo. Great when he has people fighting back and keeping him on track and in check... and just bat-shit insane when on his own.

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8 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

Oh I have nothing against people trying the game, by all means it sounds like if you end up liking it (via Stockholm syndrome based on one review?) then you really like it. I'd just... maybe consider a Redbox or Gamefly rental or something first. I mean, the divisive reviews have made me more interested than I was previously (which was not at all) because I find building infrastructure to make things accomplished easier very satisfying, might be wish fulfillment since that kind of shit never happens here in America.

 

So maybe there's something for there for me and I'll end up a raving lunatic trying to convince everyone of Kojima's brilliance... but I'm gonna rent it first because there's no way I'm risking $60 on this! And yes, Disco is an amazing game that too few people will play. If you like weird esoteric shit that's a little more subtle than "the cell phones are literally handcuffs" then it's something worth looking into!

 Ah, I mean  . . . I don't rent stuff so . . . :p 

 

I wouldn't begrudge a rental over a buy, for sure. I'm just talking about playing it. :)

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I have loved a LOT of Kojima games.

There are too many good games out there to play.

There are too many creators of great games, that have follow-ups that I have found disappointing.

 

If someone is able to articulate what makes this game fun, I'll probably end up trying it when it gets cheap on a steam sale.  But, based on what I have read about the game so far, It doesn't justify me dropping $60 to play it on my non-preferred platform.

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Remember when Kojima told us we'd be bored for half the game or so? He wasn't tolling.

 

Remember the demonstration at TGS and gamers were hoping there was more to the game? There isn't. 

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1 minute ago, ALIEN-gunner said:

Remember when Kojima told us we'd be bored for half the game or so? He wasn't tolling.

 

Remember the demonstration at TGS and gamers were hoping there was more to the game? There isn't. 

 

He said that? At least he was honest :cheers:

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I don't want to play art. I want to play video games. If a video game is only good because it is art then it isn't a good game. I love the story of RDR2, but the game part isn't that good. 

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19 hours ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

I've liked most of Kojima's stuff and that includes games most of y'all haven't played. 

 

That said, this has pretty much zero appeal to me. 

I feel this way as well. 

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