osxmatt Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 Did we really need to use the N word to create an example?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentWorld Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 4 hours ago, Man of Culture said: Let's not pretend that the left didn't have their own brand of never trumper's. And yes, I recognize that people like Ben Shapiro were also "Never Trumper's" Isn’t pretty much everyone on the left a never trumper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 1 minute ago, SilentWorld said: Isn’t pretty much everyone on the left a never trumper? If you're truly on the Left, Donald Trump is completely and totally irrelevant to your political calculus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentWorld Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 1 minute ago, SFLUFAN said: If you're truly on the Left, Donald Trump is completely and totally irrelevant to your political calculus. Can you elaborate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 Just now, SilentWorld said: Can you elaborate? What I mean is that he just doesn't influence you in one way or another. He's a complete and total non-entity when compared to the far greater "conservative" or "liberal" enemies. It's the same reason why no true Leftist would ever associate themselves with the #Resistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 Just now, Man of Culture said: I'm pretty sure that a significant number of people who are truly on the left beg to differ. Then they should be shot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Man of Culture said: Love me some no true Scotsman fallacy. I used to know what that was, but I really just can't give enough to a damn to be bothered to either reacquaint myself nor be reacquainted with it. It's probably something liberals trot out to make themselves feel good or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 Never Trump was born out of conservatives who would "never" vote for Trump. It has nothing to do with the left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, Man of Culture said: Yes and no. Yes it was initially born out of neoconservatives who were angry about Trump, starting the Stop Trump movement. No in the idea that it has nothing to do with the left. Plenty of liberals, progressives and commie larpers fall into the category of "Never Trump" by virtue of sharing many of the same core issue brought up by "Never Trumpers" "Trump's campaign is built on xenophobia, race-baiting and religious bigotry." This is a stupid point. The left was never going to support the Republican nominee regardless of who it was. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted May 16, 2019 Author Share Posted May 16, 2019 10 minutes ago, Man of Culture said: Yes and no. Yes it was initially born out of neoconservatives who were angry about Trump, starting the Stop Trump movement. No in the idea that it has nothing to do with the left. Plenty of liberals, progressives and commie larpers fall into the category of "Never Trump" by virtue of sharing many of the same core issue brought up by "Never Trumpers" "Trump's campaign is built on xenophobia, race-baiting and religious bigotry." They may agree with one another on that, but #NeverTrump meant, "If Trump wins the nomination, we're going to not vote Republican for the first time in years/ever. I will vote Republican, but #NeverTrump." They wanted to stop him from getting the nomination despite getting a plurality of the vote. And it wasn't just neocons; Mormons disliked Trump, with Trump getting the lowest share of the vote in Utah for a Republican since 1964 IIRC. That's honestly what it means, and I don't know where people are getting the idea that anyone on the left is part of that movement considering Democrats were pretty easily never voting Republican for decades. That last sentence is pretty much Jose's point. Just now, Jose said: This is a stupid point. The left was never going to support the Republican nominee regardless of who it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CayceG Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 And I'm sick of the trope that Trump's campaign actually wasn't built on racism and xenophobia. It trafficked in it. It used the words from those groups. It spoke to those people. The voters responded based on those ideas. Because they held those ideas. Trump used all of this to his benefit, saw it had benefit, and kept doing it. Is he a white supremacist? Probably not. Does he benefit from people who are and people who dance around the edges without realizing what they're doing? Yes, absolutely. If you fuck goats as a joke, you're still a goat fucker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris- Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, CayceG said: And I'm sick of the trope that Trump's campaign actually wasn't built on racism and xenophobia. It trafficked in it. It used the words from those groups. It spoke to those people. The voters responded based on those ideas. Because they held those ideas. Trump used all of this to his benefit, saw it had benefit, and kept doing it. Is he a white supremacist? Probably not. Does he benefit from people who are and people who dance around the edges without realizing what they're doing? Yes, absolutely. If you fuck goats as a joke, you're still a goat fucker. But are they intending to fuck goats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 5 hours ago, Man of Culture said: Let's not pretend that the left didn't have their own brand of never trumper's. And yes, I recognize that people like Ben Shapiro were also "Never Trumper's" OK, but your post was about mislabeling people and then you mislabeled people. It was just an amusing own-goal on your part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema- Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 Why are we talking about nevertrumpers in a thread about white supremacist terrorism? The only real nevertrumpers out there are the old neocons because most of them were anti-communist warhawk Jews. The reason they're never trump is, drumroll please, the virulent anti-Semitic racism of the conservative trump movement! Otherwise they'd just be Republicans. It's the white supremacy that makes for the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema- Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, sblfilms said: OK, but your post was about mislabeling people and then you mislabeled people. It was just an amusing own-goal on your part. He'll corncob before admitting to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema- Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 Okay, corncob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Man of Culture said: You were saying? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_psychology Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CayceG Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 I'm not owned! I'm not owned! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted May 17, 2019 Author Share Posted May 17, 2019 Her daughter died at Charlottesville. She wants the feds to do more to fight hate. Quote It was a disturbing start to a congressional hearing. But she gave her permission to run footage showing the moment Heather Heyer, 32 years old, was killed by neo-Nazi James Alex Fields, who was convicted of murder. He smashed a 2010 Dodge Challenger into a Charlottesville crowd of anti-racist protesters in August 2017, flinging Heyer into the air like a rag doll. “My daughter was probably dead by the time she hit the ground,” Bro told a rapt House Oversight and Reform subcommittee hearing this week. Subcommittee Chairman Jamie B. Raskin (D-Md.) said he called the hearing to focus on the government’s response to “the rise of a particular form of domestic terrorism — violent white supremacy.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 I think at this point anyone who actively still supports Trump is either too stupid to see he is hateful or love him for it, and all that that implies. Neither is a good look. Anyone suggesting otherwise hasn't been paying attention for the last three years. And that makes up most of the current white conservative vote in this country. Anyone who wears a MAGA hat is making a statement about their political values, absolutely. Of course there is a sliding scale - but let's not kid ourselves here either. The evidence is in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 44 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: I think at this point anyone who actively still supports Trump is either too stupid to see he is hateful or love him for it, and all that that implies. Neither is a good look. Anyone suggesting otherwise hasn't been paying attention for the last three years. Or he has no principles and as such generally goes along with most of the policies they like. This is a large slice of conservatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signifyin(g)Monkey Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 1 hour ago, sblfilms said: Or he has no principles and as such generally goes along with most of the policies they like. This is a large slice of conservatives. This—I know quite a few conservatives who think he’s a buffoon but just like his economic policies and care more about getting conservatives on the courts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarSolo Posted May 18, 2019 Share Posted May 18, 2019 7 hours ago, Greatoneshere said: I think at this point anyone who actively still supports Trump is either too stupid to see he is hateful or love him for it, and all that that implies. Neither is a good look. Anyone suggesting otherwise hasn't been paying attention for the last three years. And that makes up most of the current white conservative vote in this country. Anyone who wears a MAGA hat is making a statement about their political values, absolutely. Of course there is a sliding scale - but let's not kid ourselves here either. The evidence is in. At this point for me there's no difference between people that wear MAGA hats and people who wear white hoods or red armbands. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted May 18, 2019 Share Posted May 18, 2019 Did we really have to have an argument about what "never Trump" means? It seems pretty fucking obvious it's a term that can't apply to people who were never going to vote for ANY Republican presidential candidate. smfh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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