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Alabama Senate passes nation’s most restrictive abortion ban, which makes no exceptions for victims of rape and incest

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7 hours ago, sblfilms said:

The issue of rape/incest exceptions is a red herring, without question. The vast vast vast majority of abortions are those of personal convenience and one side opposes that and the other side supports it. Getting caught up in fringe cases is a distraction from the actual discussion...if there can even be a legitimate discussion at this point.

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TITUTEMENUDONATE
PERSPECTIVES ON SEXUAL AND REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH
A journal of peer-reviewed research
Volume 37, Issue 3 September 2005 Pages 110 - 118
Reasons U.S. Women Have Abortions: Quantitative and Qualitative Perspectives
Lawrence B. Finer
Lori F. Frohwirth,Guttmacher Institute
Lindsay A. Dauphinee
Susheela Singh,Guttmacher Institute
Ann M. Moore,Guttmacher Institute
First published online: September 1, 2005
DOI: https://doi.org/10.1363/3711005
CONTEXT
Understanding women's reasons for having abortions can inform public debate and policy regarding abortion and unwanted pregnancy. Demographic changes over the last two decades highlight the need for a reassessment of why women decide to have abortions.

METHODS
In 2004, a structured survey was completed by 1,209 abortion patients at 11 large providers, and in-depth interviews were conducted with 38 women at four sites. Bivariate analyses examined differences in the reasons for abortion across subgroups, and multivariate logistic regression models assessed associations between respondent characteristics and reported reasons.

RESULTS
The reasons most frequently cited were that having a child would interfere with a woman's education, work or ability to care for dependents (74%); that she could not afford a baby now (73%); and that she did not want to be a single mother or was having relationship problems (48%). Nearly four in 10 women said they had completed their childbearing, and almost one-third were not ready to have a child. Fewer than 1% said their parents' or partners' desire for them to have an abortion was the most important reason. Younger women often reported that they were unprepared for the transition to motherhood, while older women regularly cited their responsibility to dependents.

CONCLUSIONS
The decision to have an abortion is typically motivated by multiple, diverse and interrelated reasons. The themes of responsibility to others and resource limitations, such as financial constraints and lack of partner support, recurred throughout the study.

"Personal convenience" Link

 

I can personally attest to the financial constraints as a reason for abortion. It's why my wife had one a year or two ago, before I started my new job. She was at about 6 weeks. Between daycare, servicing all of our student loans, and paying down medical bills from her two hospital stays before giving birth, our first ER visit bill for my daughter when she was an infant, and then the debt incurred from having to deal with unpayed maternity leave, it was not financially possible to have another kid at my then current salary. Even having my wife stop working to take care of two kids would not have been possible without accepting nearly twenty more years of debt servicing on our student loans.

 

So, uh, no thanks. These pro fetus assholes can take a long walk on a short pier. If they really cared about life, they'd make it so giving birth and taking time off for a newborn child aren't so financially burdensome, and that the woman has an actual choice to either return to work with daycare that isn't the amount of a mortgage itself, or can stay at home with the child without plunging their family into poverty (we were and are in a better position than most people, and we wouldn't have gone into poverty but another lifetime of debt shouldn't be the sentence for having a family)

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1 minute ago, thewhyteboar said:

 

Of course these people don't remember/reference the other ~6 million who died in German concentration camps (Slavs, homosexuals, the disabled, etc) they're just running on propaganda and glue fumes.

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What @b_m_b_m_b_m articulated reveals the great lie that the purveyors of "American family values" have been able to get away with for ages.

 

Want to know what society was actually "pro-family" in its approach to parenthood?  The Soviet Union.

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46 minutes ago, Slug said:

So, medically speaking, how early can (not should) birth be induced?  Rather than have an "abortion" is there a way a doctor can have a woman give birth pre-viability?  "They didn't have an abortion, they just gave birth 7 months premature".  They didn't kill it; it just didn't survive.  Probably silly.  I'm just spit-balling for loopholes...

Induced labor still falls under abortion. Many cases the baby does not live through the process and is considered a still birth.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Of course these people don't remember/reference the other ~6 million who died in German concentration camps (Slavs, homosexuals, the disabled, etc) they're just running on propaganda and glue fumes.

Such an admission would reduce the "mythical" status that the Jewish people have attained in their Christian Zionist worldview.

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Just now, SFLUFAN said:

Such an admission would reduce the "mythical" status that the Jewish people have attained in their Christian Zionist worldview.

 

Hell, at least in the Soviet Union you got basically free housing!

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5 minutes ago, thewhyteboar said:

 

I'd say a ridiculous analogy to this would be putting a safety on a gun, but these nuts would be anti safety if it meant the libs we're for it. When you want to use a gun, take the safety off. (Not that the vasectomy is always reversible mine you but still an interesting thought)

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1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

"Personal convenience" Link

 

I can personally attest to the financial constraints as a reason for abortion. It's why my wife had one a year or two ago, before I started my new job. She was at about 6 weeks. Between daycare, servicing all of our student loans, and paying down medical bills from her two hospital stays before giving birth, our first ER visit bill for my daughter when she was an infant, and then the debt incurred from having to deal with unpayed maternity leave, it was not financially possible to have another kid at my then current salary. Even having my wife stop working to take care of two kids would not have been possible without accepting nearly twenty more years of debt servicing on our student loans.

 

So, uh, no thanks. These pro fetus assholes can take a long walk on a short pier. If they really cared about life, they'd make it so giving birth and taking time off for a newborn child aren't so financially burdensome, and that the woman has an actual choice to either return to work with daycare that isn't the amount of a mortgage itself, or can stay at home with the child without plunging their family into poverty (we were and are in a better position than most people, and we wouldn't have gone into poverty but another lifetime of debt shouldn't be the sentence for having a family)

 

Yes, that is all personal convenience. You described it well. Having a child would have created difficulty in having the life you desire for your family, so you chose the option that would end in less difficulty.

 

Your link and your personal story align with what I said. The policies that pro-choice people say will reduce abortions are all related to removing those inconveniences. Even the anti-choice protestors at clinics will attempt to convince women they will help them with the financial burden of a child so as to remove the inconveniences of birthing the child.

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And there's nothing wrong with making the best choice for your family, up to and including terminating an unexpected pregnancy.

 

That said, I really dislike the moralizing tone of the phrase "personal convenience" and that's why I went off on a bit of a tirade. To me it implies a level of knowledge of someone else's situation that condescendingly passes judgement on the character and familial/socioeconomic/health statuses of a person getting an abortion. A personal convenience is making a list online and paying $5 to get your grocery shopping done and the bags brought to your car like Kroger click list. Avoiding years(maybe even decades) of physical, mental, marital, and/or financial hardship isn't a personal convenience. 

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Of course, there is my personal preference that people receive "parental licenses" for reproduction that attests to their "fitness" to propagate the species.

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But that’s what the word means. Abortions happen in the vast majority of cases to limit the personal difficulties of the decision making parties that arise due to a new birth. 

 

But toss that out and use any other synonym for conveying difficulty and the point remains that the rape/incest issue is both what either side really cares about. It is the majority cases like your own story. If the Alabama congress relented and put rape/incest exclusions back in, it isn’t as though pro-choice people would go along with it then.

 

So it is clearly not what this fight is actually about.

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For the record, I am physically nauseated to be described as "pro-choice".

 

I demand to be referred to as "pro-abortion" or "anti-life".

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16 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

For the record, I am physically nauseatd to be described as "pro-choice".

 

I demand to be referred to as "pro-abortion" or "anti-life".

 

So you're pro-choice on how to label one's stance on abortion?

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15 hours ago, thewhyteboar said:

 

 

 

While it's nowhere near the same, it's funny coming from a guy who has millions of dollars he earned being a 6'7 genetic freak that his wife could just legally take in a divorce. 

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5 minutes ago, Dodger said:

While it's nowhere near the same, it's funny coming from a guy who has millions of dollars he earned being a 6'7 genetic freak that his wife could just legally take in a divorce. 

 

I fail to see how any of this is relevant.

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8 minutes ago, Dodger said:

 

 

While it's nowhere near the same, it's funny coming from a guy who has millions of dollars he earned being a 6'7 genetic freak that his wife could just legally take in a divorce. 

 

Que

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14 minutes ago, Dodger said:

 

 

While it's nowhere near the same, it's funny coming from a guy who has millions of dollars he earned being a 6'7 genetic freak that his wife could just legally take in a divorce. 

What does this have to do with...anything?

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4 minutes ago, Amazatron said:

 

I fail to see how any of this is relevant.

 

1 minute ago, Jose said:

 

Que

 

 

If the tweet was from Joe Smith I wouldn't think anything of it. But since it's from a millionaire athlete, he could be "divorce raped"  for millions of dollars by his wife at any time. He's just uniquely in a position to get really fucked by the divorce system due to his wealth. 

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Just now, Dodger said:

 

 

 

If the tweet was from Joe Smith I wouldn't think anything of it. But since it's from a millionaire athlete, he could be "divorce raped"  for millions of dollars by his wife at any time. He's just uniquely in a position to get really fucked by the divorce system due to his wealth. 

Yeah, man, getting the shaft in a hypothetical divorce is totally comparable to being raped and then being forced to carry your rapist's baby.

 

Jesus, fuck, I don't know how you process your thoughts sometimes.

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Holy fuck what does divorce law have to do with being a husband/boyfriend of somebody that got impregnated via rape and being forced to bring the rapist's parasite to full term knowing that it is not a parasite conceived through any type of love? 

This is the type of shit that brings about single parenthood and possible suicide. But that is alright as you score points for giving it to someone that would be "divorce raped." What the fuck does that even mean. You are a vile piece of shit for even comparing the two.  

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13 minutes ago, Amazatron said:

 

I fail to see how any of this is relevant.

redpill

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6 minutes ago, Dodger said:

 

 

 

If the tweet was from Joe Smith I wouldn't think anything of it. But since it's from a millionaire athlete, he could be "divorce raped"  for millions of dollars by his wife at any time. He's just uniquely in a position to get really fucked by the divorce system due to his wealth. 

 

How is that relevant to being actually raped and being forced to carry a baby to term?

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12 minutes ago, Dodger said:

If the tweet was from Joe Smith I wouldn't think anything of it. But since it's from a millionaire athlete, he could be "divorce raped"  for millions of dollars by his wife at any time. He's just uniquely in a position to get really fucked by the divorce system due to his wealth. 

 

GiftedUncommonIvorybilledwoodpecker-size

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Again, I just thought it was weird a millionare pro athlete said it, and not some random Joe Smith, and I distinctly said it  didn't compare to carrying your rapists child to term. But you all skipped right passed all of that to get your outrage on. 

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Divorce raped?

 

What in poo perfect fuck?

 

Potentially losing millions is not comparable to being physically raped. How would anything think those are the same or similar?

 

Also: there's nothing funny about it coming from a rich guy. It's probably because he's smart enough to know there's no such thing as divorce raped, especially not comparable to actual rape. What difference does it make that a positive and accurate tweet come from a rich athlete or not? What are you trying to point out?

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Just now, Greatoneshere said:

Divorce raped?

 

What in poo perfect fuck?

 

Potentially losing millions is not comparable to being physically raped. How would anything think those are the same or similar?

Losing millions through a legal process at that. 

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But you are comparing the two. The message in the tweet was there is nothing a man could experience that would be on the same level as bringing a rapist's parasite to full term. And you are saying "losing half your wealth" is a worse experience. So again you are a vile piece of shit for comparing the two. 

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3 minutes ago, Dodger said:

Again, I just thought it was weird a millionare pro athlete said it, and not some random Joe Smith, and I distinctly said it  didn't compare to carrying your rapists child to term. But you all skipped right passed all of that to get your outrage on. 

Because it's a fucking stupid and nonsensical thing to say. Yet, sadly, not surprising coming from you.

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