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~*Colin Trevorrow's Star Wars: Episode IX - Duel of the Fates OT*~

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Mercury33

Mercury33

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1 hour ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

That’s why I said her strength lies in business and finance. I’m fine with her staying President of Lucas Film, I just think there needs to be a creative type right below her that kind of does what Feige for the MCU. A gate keeper. Kennedy can still handle licensing, and budget approval and the side of the business that doesn’t impact story creativity. 


I disagree completely. I would much rather have what we’ve gotten with the new Star Wars movies, with different directors adding their different unique takes. Than Marvels cookie cutter, everything is exactly the same with no risks, approach. Star Wars doesn’t need some grand overlord making sure everything feels the same 

 

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johnny

johnny

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Kathleen Kennedy is fine. She understands that film is a director’s medium which is why JJ and Rian got as much freedom as they did. The only problem is that she gave JJ too much freedom to finish out the trilogy instead of worrying about whether or not what he was doing made sense. I think she has learned from the missteps of the franchise like stopping the A Star Wars Story movies. If you want more Marvel style just stick to the The Mandalorian where it wouldn’t be obvious to tell which episode Taika directed because it’s TV. 
 

Star Wars will be fine with KK in charge. 

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SuperSpreader

SuperSpreader

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15 minutes ago, johnny said:

Kathleen Kennedy is fine. She understands that film is a director’s medium which is why JJ and Rian got as much freedom as they did. The only problem is that she gave JJ too much freedom to finish out the trilogy instead of worrying about whether or not what he was doing made sense. I think she has learned from the missteps of the franchise like stopping the A Star Wars Story movies. If you want more Marvel style just stick to the The Mandalorian where it wouldn’t be obvious to tell which episode Taika directed because it’s TV. 
 

Star Wars will be fine with KK in charge. 

Yes! We prefer a strong bad to good movie ratio around here!

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Spawn_of_Apathy

Spawn_of_Apathy

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1 hour ago, Mercury33 said:


I disagree completely. I would much rather have what we’ve gotten with the new Star Wars movies, with different directors adding their different unique takes. Than Marvels cookie cutter, everything is exactly the same with no risks, approach. Star Wars doesn’t need some grand overlord making sure everything feels the same 

 

One guy acting as a gate keeper for the lore to ensure a director doesn’t go off the rails and do something like have a Jedi manifesting a ship into existence from nothing, just the energy of the living Force. Or a Jedi using the Force to travel back in time, push Alderan out of the way of the Deathstar beam, and create a mirage to make the Empire think they blew up the planet. 
 

That doesn’t mean the movies have to be cookie cutter. 

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Greatoneshere

Greatoneshere

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2 hours ago, johnny said:

Kathleen Kennedy is fine. She understands that film is a director’s medium which is why JJ and Rian got as much freedom as they did. The only problem is that she gave JJ too much freedom to finish out the trilogy instead of worrying about whether or not what he was doing made sense. I think she has learned from the missteps of the franchise like stopping the A Star Wars Story movies. If you want more Marvel style just stick to the The Mandalorian where it wouldn’t be obvious to tell which episode Taika directed because it’s TV. 
 

Star Wars will be fine with KK in charge. 

 

I agree with what everyone is saying about KK in that I prefer her approach over the MCU approach, but I am confused by her understanding film is a "director's medium" when she fired Lord & Miller, Colin Trevorrow, and Josh Trank, and had difficulties with Gareth Edwards (I'm a fan of Rogue One). And re-hiring JJ when he's admitted in the past he's not good at endings and skips over plot mechanics by just having a propulsive, non-stop go-go-go plot tells me she doesn't do her homework before hiring these directors. Lord & Miller, Trevorrow, Trank, Edwards are all directors who have clear voices (whether good or bad) so she couldn't have been surprised what each contributed to her after hiring them because it'd be similar to all the work they've each done in the past. You hire Lord & Miller, you should expect an improvisational set, for instance. Hiring Trevorrow in the first place, and replacing him with JJ Abrams, firing Lord & Miller, and then replacing them with Ron Howard also doesn't indicate a lot of savvy. And rushing JJ both times he was making a Star Wars movie with hard deadlines when she could have pushed the release dates in each case also seems like a simple enough thing she could have avoided but didn't. 

 

Again, I'm fine with Kathleen Kennedy, but I can't reconcile this. And you could have literally hired any great director, almost anyone wants to direct a Star Wars movie, (del Toro, Peter Jackson, anyone) yet you re-hired JJ to end a 9-film saga and a sequel trilogy at the same time when he's bad at endings. Yeesh. Thank fuck TLJ wrapped up as much as it did because TROS was not good. Hiring Denis Villenueve for Dune is the kind of artists Star Wars deserves but is not getting. That's what OT Star Wars was, it was art. Get real artists back into Star Wars, and let them be artists. This is Star Wars for crying out loud, it deserves the best. Even Rian Johnson was somewhat constrained with TLJ trying to have some coherency with the blandly plotted and shot TFA.

 

When I say artists, I don't mean Dave Filoni or Jon Favreu either - they're still mass appeal directors. I want Denis Villenueve, Cary Joji Fukunaga, etc. Getting Taika Waititi and Rian Johnson is a step in the right direction (as was getting Lord & Miller and Edwards, but we saw how the former went). But I don't want more Abrams', Trevorrows, or Favreaus. Nothing against them, but they're mass appeal - they're able to shepherd blockbusters to the finish line, but they don't really elevate the material. I mean, Faverau makes fun movies (Iron Man, Chef, Elf, etc.) but Chef? Elf? This is the guy to do some Star Wars stuff? You could probably get fucking Scorsese, Spielberg, ya know, the greats. Because its Star Wars, they'll do it (and I like The Mandalorian). Why are we settling? THIS IS STAR WARS. The prequels were so bad that when Lucas sold Star Wars I was like: "they could get anyone to revitalize this franchise and make it like the OT again!" Then I watched TFA and was like: "this is the best space opera film they could make?" Get Christopher Nolan, Danny Boyle, I don't care. But real directors. :p 

 

TL;DR (you should!): Star Wars could literally hire the greatest directors currently living because everyone loves the OT Star Wars, but we hired . . . mediocrity (for the most part), and when you can hire anyone, that's puzzling.

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Reputator

Reputator

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15 hours ago, Mercury33 said:

Also the idea that KK needs to replaced blows my mind. I mean I get if someone isn’t a fan of the newer Star Wars films but they’ve been massively successful and generally very well received. But yeah she sucks and doesn’t know what she’s doing 🙄

 

I don't know how anyone could look at the myriad of production problems and inconsistent execution and say "Eh, sure! She's doing a great job!" That blows MY mind. Saying she's good because she managed to make money is an incredibly low bar to set, especially since we're talking about Star Wars here, something with a massive established fanbase. The most minimum effort could have made money (and arguably did).

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Mercury33

Mercury33

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58 minutes ago, Reputator said:

 

I don't know how anyone could look at the myriad of production problems and inconsistent execution and say "Eh, sure! She's doing a great job!" That blows MY mind. Saying she's good because she managed to make money is an incredibly low bar to set, especially since we're talking about Star Wars here, something with a massive established fanbase. The most minimum effort could have made money (and arguably did).


Good thing I didn’t only list “making money” as the ways they’ve been successful. And if someone were to make the argument the all the new movies are minimum effort projects? Then their level of stupid is not something that can be helped. 

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Spawn_of_Apathy

Spawn_of_Apathy

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Just now, skillzdadirecta said:

The Kathleen Kennedy obsession is TRULY a sight to behold... I wonder why the executive in charge of the DCU doesn't get that kind of hate. They DID entrust their whole cinematic universe to Zack Snyder after all.

Probably because it’s a guy (I haven’t actually looked) and it’s DC. Batman will rebound with a different director. 

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skillzdadirecta

skillzdadirecta

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Just now, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Probably because it’s a guy (I haven’t actually looked) and it’s DC. Batman will rebound with a different director. 

BINGO. And nobody gives a shit about the executives, nor should they. Star Wars will rebound as well, except a :sick: girl is in charge! Solo sucks? Blame the chick! Fan favorite directors fired for reasons the public doesn't know? Blame the chick! Star Wars TV show is an unexpected hit? Man that Filoni and Favraeu are two brilliant dudes :lol:

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Guest

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1 hour ago, Reputator said:

 

I don't know how anyone could look at the myriad of production problems and inconsistent execution and say "Eh, sure! She's doing a great job!" That blows MY mind. Saying she's good because she managed to make money is an incredibly low bar to set, especially since we're talking about Star Wars here, something with a massive established fanbase. The most minimum effort could have made money (and arguably did).


Making money is the only real job of a major studio producer, though. Production problems only matter if they lead to losing money. Franchises don’t last forever, so to generate 10 billion+ in sales even on a franchise in just 4 years of releases is pretty impressive.

 

As film fans, obviously we want to see better movies. But that’s not really the standard by which major studio producers are measured.

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Spawn_of_Apathy

Spawn_of_Apathy

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1 hour ago, skillzdadirecta said:

BINGO. And nobody gives a shit about the executives, nor should they. Star Wars will rebound as well, except a :sick: girl is in charge! Solo sucks? Blame the chick! Fan favorite directors fired for reasons the public doesn't know? Blame the chick! Star Wars TV show is an unexpected hit? Man that Filoni and Favraeu are two brilliant dudes :lol:

To be fair for Dave Filoni he had Clone Wars, which was before Disney, Rebels, and now a producer credit in Mandalorian. I’d say he’s batting pretty good. 

52 minutes ago, Mercury33 said:

Also we’re apparently gonna act like the Marvel movies haven’t had production issues or director changes as well. But yeah KaThLeEn Is ThE dEvIl ShEs RuInInG mY cHiLdHoOd

Again, I’m not in the “remove her as Lucas Arts President” camp. But in over 20 movies across more than 10 years Marvel has had as many or fewer director issues/replacements as Star Wars in 5 films. Marvel isn’t flawless, but they are running a better average. lol

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Reputator

Reputator

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1 hour ago, SaysWho? said:

None of the Star Wars movies -- 1 through 9, Rogue One, Solo -- are low effort. Some are worse, some are better, but a lot goes into these films. Solo shows that you're not guaranteed a blockbuster just because it's Star Wars.

 

Alright, how about low risk? Rehashing story ideas from the OT doesn't seem like the biggest effort to me, and milking nostalgia checkboxes in all films, especially Solo, is pretty disheartening as well. The OT wasn't even the most original story-wise to begin with, so copying and pasting from those is pretty sad.

 

1 hour ago, Mercury33 said:


Good thing I didn’t only list “making money” as the ways they’ve been successful. And if someone were to make the argument the all the new movies are minimum effort projects? Then their level of stupid is not something that can be helped. 

 

Oh right you also said "generally well recieved." Well that changes things in a discussion about light fluffy films that have no lasting meaning.

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Reputator

Reputator

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58 minutes ago, sblfilms said:


Making money is the only real job of a major studio producer, though. Production problems only matter if they lead to losing money. Franchises don’t last forever, so to generate 10 billion+ in sales even on a franchise in just 4 years of releases is pretty impressive.

 

As film fans, obviously we want to see better movies. But that’s not really the standard by which major studio producers are measured.

 

But isn't that last part what we're talking about here? And also, if all Disney cared about was money, and not public perception, why backtrack so much on TLJ when it was undoubtedly a moneymaker?

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2 minutes ago, Reputator said:

 

But isn't that last part what we're talking about here? And also, if all Disney cared about was money, and not public perception, why backtrack so much on TLJ when it was undoubtedly a moneymaker?

I disagree with the idea that they did what you say, but let’s operate from the POV that Disney intentionally backtracked from TLJ due to some idea on their part that the response of viewers dictated some major change: public perception is tied to the making of money. But what the public likes is not particularly tied to whether a film is great or not. There are artistic hits and misses scattered all over the top grossing film charts :)

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Mercury33

Mercury33

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13 minutes ago, Reputator said:

 

Alright, how about low risk? Rehashing story ideas from the OT doesn't seem like the biggest effort to me, and milking nostalgia checkboxes in all films, especially Solo, is pretty disheartening as well. The OT wasn't even the most original story-wise to begin with, so copying and pasting from those is pretty sad.

 

 

Oh right you also said "generally well recieved." Well that changes things in a discussion about light fluffy films that have no lasting meaning.


Don’t go getting all sensitive. So which is it? Are they light fluffy films with no lasting appeal or are important works of art that need a better head producer in order to insure that narrative quality doesn’t suffer?

 

Star Wars movies are financially extremely successful. They are well received by critics. They are well received by the general public. But yeah good call on the lead producer being a complete failure. What an unbelievably stupid opinion to have. 

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SuperSpreader

SuperSpreader

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1 hour ago, skillzdadirecta said:

The Kathleen Kennedy obsession is TRULY a sight to behold... I wonder why the executive in charge of the DCU doesn't get that kind of hate. They DID entrust their whole cinematic universe to Zack Snyder after all.

Everyone hates Snyder tho and we don't know who is behind DCU because they're not in the news. But they should get the :guillotine:

 

I know you want it to be sexism, but maybe the movies just blow?

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SaysWho?

SaysWho?

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54 minutes ago, Reputator said:

 

Alright, how about low risk? Rehashing story ideas from the OT doesn't seem like the biggest effort to me, and milking nostalgia checkboxes in all films, especially Solo, is pretty disheartening as well. The OT wasn't even the most original story-wise to begin with, so copying and pasting from those is pretty sad.

 

After the first Star Wars came out, every Star Wars is basically low risk. :p 

 

I just rewatched TFA, which is the closest to a rehash just by story beats, and it feels like a wholly different movie than ANH. The motivations and characters are much different than ANH. TLJ is a different movie entirely with one of the most creative endings of the saga. In fact, it gets attacked repeatedly for its subversion of expectations. Rogue One never really felt Star Warsy until the last third of the movie from my recollection. Haven't seen all of Solo.

 

TRoS was a mess, but with what came before it, I can live with 9 being mediocre considering I survived the Prequel Wars. :p 

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Reputator

Reputator

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1 hour ago, sblfilms said:

I disagree with the idea that they did what you say, but let’s operate from the POV that Disney intentionally backtracked from TLJ due to some idea on their part that the response of viewers dictated some major change: public perception is tied to the making of money. But what the public likes is not particularly tied to whether a film is great or not. There are artistic hits and misses scattered all over the top grossing film charts :)

 

I don't necessarily disagree with you about quality vs public perception. But truly bad movies are generally well recognized, and can hurt revenue. Of course Transformers exists to fuck up every notion I have of commonsense, but I'm gonna pretend those don't exist for a moment. :p

 

I like to bring up LOTR because it's one of those success stories that really illustrates that great quality can break the curse of a thirdqual (sorry, that's an awful word but it's efficient) making less money than it's predecessors. Hell, even a moderately inferior film like Dark Knight Rises succumbs to the problem, so a truly poorly executed film like ROS fared even worse. And I think that the old Disney addage of Michael Eisner's that "quality sells" is something Bob Iger (his protege anyway) really takes to heart.

 

1 hour ago, Mercury33 said:


Don’t go getting all sensitive. So which is it? Are they light fluffy films with no lasting appeal or are important works of art that need a better head producer in order to insure that narrative quality doesn’t suffer?

 

Star Wars movies are financially extremely successful. They are well received by critics. They are well received by the general public. But yeah good call on the lead producer being a complete failure. What an unbelievably stupid opinion to have. 

You are grossly overstating and generalizing the reception of the films thus far.

 

1 hour ago, SaysWho? said:

 

After the first Star Wars came out, every Star Wars is basically low risk. :p 

 

I just rewatched TFA, which is the closest to a rehash just by story beats, and it feels like a wholly different movie than ANH. The motivations and characters are much different than ANH. TLJ is a different movie entirely with one of the most creative endings of the saga. In fact, it gets attacked repeatedly for its subversion of expectations. Rogue One never really felt Star Warsy until the last third of the movie from my recollection. Haven't seen all of Solo.

 

TRoS was a mess, but with what came before it, I can live with 9 being mediocre considering I survived the Prequel Wars. :p 

 

Yeah TLJ was the least like Empire and the OT, I don't disagree. But the parallels of the scene in ROS with Rey and Palpatine and the battle taking place outside the window (or hole in the roof in this case) is, if not lazy, a really hamfisted callback.

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Greatoneshere

Greatoneshere

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3 hours ago, SFLUFAN said:

Here's the first draft of the Duel of the Fates script dated 16 December 2016 - all 128 pages of it.

 

Just as an addendum, Colin Trevorrow and his writing partner Derek Connolly "officially" left production of Episode IX on September 5, 2017, nine months after this, for those wanting to establish a timeline. After Rian Johnson turned down doing Episode IX right after they left, J.J. Abrams was hired on September 12 (a week after Trevorrow and Connolly were "officially" fired/let go) and the release date for Episode IX was moved to December 20, 2019. 

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IdeaOfEvil

IdeaOfEvil

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Eh... kinda pointless getting excited (good or bad) over this script leak. It would be great if Disney copied DC comic's animated formula where mini movies based on popular stories would get direct to video releases every 6 months or so. But unless that happens and this script gets made into something (animation, fan movie, comic book, novel, etc), I say let this trilogy finally die and move on...

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SaysWho?

SaysWho?

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On 2/9/2020 at 3:00 AM, IdeaOfEvil said:

Eh... kinda pointless getting excited (good or bad) over this script leak. It would be great if Disney copied DC comic's animated formula where mini movies based on popular stories would get direct to video releases every 6 months or so. But unless that happens and this script gets made into something (animation, fan movie, comic book, novel, etc), I say let this trilogy finally die and move on...

 

None of the trilogies die; they last forever because they exist until all matter ceases to exist. :p 

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IdeaOfEvil

IdeaOfEvil

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1 minute ago, SaysWho? said:

 

@IdeaOfEvil Yo, did you seriously guillotine this post a month after the fact? :confused:

 

Eh, I'm bored tonight and was just catching up with this thread and all the posts I missed :p

 

It's really odd seeing all the posts here that simply try to paint me as some sexist while ignoring my criticisms of the franchise, lol. Maybe I should film myself punching my mother so I can help quantify the same-old insane posters here who truly are sociopaths :lol:

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