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~*Colin Trevorrow's Star Wars: Episode IX - Duel of the Fates OT*~


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TLJ had the most time from the beginning of scripting to release. It’s the only one of the Disney Star Wars flicks to have a smooth process. That was a big reason they wanted RJ for episode 9.

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56 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

I thought Tran was cheesy and played off of Boyega poorly in almost every scene she was in. I really didn’t hear anybody have particularly positive things to say about her or the character until losers started harassing her online.


I quite enjoyed her character in TLJ; I felt like her cheesiness came across charmingly (let’s not forget how cheesy the OT is), and I appreciated that her story gave us both an inside look at the lower levels of the Rebels/Resistance, as well as the military industrial complex that hadn’t previously been addressed in the movies. And as Kal said previously, she has one of the best lines in the entire saga, one that simply and sufficiently summarizes the entire crux of the series (at least until JJ fucked it all away). 

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4 minutes ago, Chris- said:


I quite enjoyed her character in TLJ; I felt like her cheesiness came across charmingly (let’s not forget how cheesy the OT is), and I appreciated that her story gave us both an inside look at the lower levels of the Rebels/Resistance, as well as the military industrial complex that hadn’t previously been addressed in the movies. And as Kal said previously, she has one of the best lines in the entire saga, one that simply and sufficiently summarizes the entire crux of the series (at least until JJ fucked it all away). 

I thought the saga had some interesting places it could go after acknowledging that the only way the resistance wins long term is with a hearts and minds campaign, especially after the end of TLJ where nobody answers the call for help.

 

But no, turns out JJ's best idea is resurrecting Sheev and THIS time the resistance has to fight 100 duck sized horses instead of 1 horse sized duck FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAART

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5 minutes ago, Chris- said:


I quite enjoyed her character in TLJ; I felt like her cheesiness came across charmingly (let’s not forget how cheesy the OT is), and I appreciated that her story gave us both an inside look at the lower levels of the Rebels/Resistance, as well as the military industrial complex that hadn’t previously been addressed in the movies. And as Kal said previously, she has one of the best lines in the entire saga, one that simply and sufficiently summarizes the entire crux of the series (at least until JJ fucked it all away). 

Her first and last scene are good, but the rest is super meh to me. I think a better actress would have helped. Boyega just takes up a lotta air in a scene due to his energy, and she didn’t seem to have what was necessary to balance that out.

 

She certainly wasn’t necessary to feature prominently in episode 9, but the way she was handled seems to be a bigger issue and the assumptions as to why.

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Just now, CayceG said:

Which line was that? @Kal-El814

That's how we're going to win, not by fighting what we hate... saving what we love.

 

Honestly it's the only approach that makes sense to me after blowing up 2 Death Stars, one Starkiller Base, etc.

 

I know the franchise is Star Wars, the pew pew isn't going anywhere and I don't want it to. But the notion fits in with the persistence of evil, with the notion that a Millennium Falcon filled with some Rebels and a busted lightsaber are all the good guys need to start pushing back, etc.

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watching TLJ, all i could think of when events happened was “this is influenced by Palpatine”.. as the unseen devil.... In a way it works and somehow makes the film stronger in retrospective...

 

this being only my second time viewing it i still have no issues with how Luke was handled... he has his own self contained arc and emerges as heroically as ever (though more Luke and Yoda is always welcome)... i guess the big conflict remains that in ROTJ people felt he was a fully formed infallible Jedi (despite the majority of the saga being focused on how fallible Jedi are)..

 

I also keep trying to find better appreciations of ROS, i do like how Kylo vs Rey water battle contrasts with Obi wan vs Anakin on mustafar... that was a nice callback

 

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4 minutes ago, 5timechamp said:

watching TLJ, all i could think of when events happened was “this is influenced by Palpatine”.. as the unseen devil.... In a way it works and somehow makes the film stronger in retrospective...

 

this being only my second time viewing it i still have no issues with how Luke was handled... he has his own self contained arc and emerges as heroically as ever (though more Luke and Yoda is always welcome)... i guess the big conflict remains that in ROTJ people felt he was a fully formed infallible Jedi (despite the majority of the saga being focused on how fallible Jedi are)..

 

I also keep trying to find better appreciations of ROS, i do like how Kylo vs Rey water battle contrasts with Obi wan vs Anakin on mustafar... that was a nice callback

 

 

Yoda was such a shock, but man... one more conversation between the two and a mid-life lesson from a Jedi who straight-up said, "Failed, I have," in 3 was pretty great. As I said earlier in the thread, it was weird that Yoda just "fails" in 3 and that none of the Jedi sensed by Palpatine, but if you just accept that the Dark Side if powerful like that, then taking those failures and going, "Look, the Jedi failed. Luke, it's OK that you filed because you can teach Rey how not to," was so fucking good.

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Something good from the Jenny Nicholson review is that she points out something that I felt (but didn't fully realize) about the ending: In most movies, the finale features a conflict that resolves some emotional issue or conflict. In ROS, they hint throughout 1/2 the movie that Rey is fighting with her own dark side pull (lightning, throwing Finn, the vision, etc). But they wrap it up when she meets Luke. Instead, it should have been left until the ending in some way. Without that, the finale is just her trying to defeat Palpatine without a real emotional struggle of her own. If she still had doubts about her own nature at that point, it could have been Ben that convinces her that she is good, or something. I guess there is still some doubt in her as to whether she is strong enough, and that is why the Jedi encouragement is there? But there was no internal conflict by the finale, so it felt weak.

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From ERA. I feel the same way:

 

Quote

I watched Marriage Story last night, and it just drove home the absurdity of it all. The idea that they had future Oscar winner Adam Driver under contract, legally bound to do whatever they could imagine, and they put him back in the mask for half the movie and then gave him no dialogue once he takes it off... I mean, what do you even say?

 

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Lowkey I LOVED that Driver played Ben as a more human, more vulnerable version of himself than Kylo was. It was so small and subtle but so effective. 

 

I watched TLJ again last night and jesus f’ing Christ it pissed me off even more than I already was about the way Driver wasn’t used. No one, not a single other actor in the entire SW universe has ever delivered the way he did in TLJ. 

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52 minutes ago, 5timechamp said:

i guess the big conflict remains that in ROTJ people felt he was a fully formed infallible Jedi (despite the majority of the saga being focused on how fallible Jedi are)..

That scene in ROTJ when he defiantly tosses his lightsaber and declares himself a Jedi like his father always strikes me as off. I do not know why people (audience) elevate Luke to be so infallible because of the scene. He RAGED out on Vader to beat him. He didn’t over power him with talent and skill. Only after he saw his fathers stub did he snap back out of it. 
 

So then what, he’s heroic for not finishing off a helpless opponent after wailing on them? Sure. 
 

Yep, that guy is the perfect Jedi and a paragon of virtue. He’ll never seem like a real person with real fears and flaws. 

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Chris Terrio is lying and is doing damage control. Ok I don’t actually know that but fuck what he and JJ did to Rose. 

 

JJ is a liar too. There is no fucking way I believe him that Finn was wanting to tell Rey he is force sensitive the way the scene is. He thinks he’s about to DIE and his big confession to Rey, the last thing he NEEDS to tell her before they die, is that he thinks he is force sensitive. BS. There was a time when Rey and Finn were going to get together and JJ fucked up in post for the millionth time. 

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1 minute ago, johnny said:

Chris Terrio is lying and is doing damage control. Ok I don’t actually know that but fuck what he and JJ did to Rose. 

 

JJ is a liar too. There is no fucking way I believe him that Finn was wanting to tell Rey he is force sensitive the way the scene is. He thinks he’s about to DIE and his big confession to Rey, the last thing he NEEDS to tell her before they die, is that he thinks he is force sensitive. BS. There was a time when Rey and Finn were going to get together and JJ fucked up in post for the millionth time. 

 

NONONO, Rian fucked it up because he gave Finn an arc of selfishness to selflessness. JJ was just fixing a wrong and made Finn "Rey! Rey! Rey!" again. He needs another movie to express Finn's true feelings for Rey.

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23 minutes ago, TheLeon said:

 

One of my favorite scenes in the entire saga. It's truly wild to me that you could watch that, then write Rise of Skywalker like they did. 

I pointed this out the other day...

Kylo Ren/Rian Johnson says "Let old things die... The Jedi, the Sith, The Resistance, The Empire, all of it."

JJ says "... No."

That sums up the two movies pretty much.

Driver is so great in that scenes... he's arguably the best actor in the entire saga since Alec Guiness :p

4 minutes ago, 69los said:

 

NONONO, Rian fucked it up because he gave Finn an arc of selfishness to selflessness. JJ was just fixing a wrong and made Finn "Rey! Rey! Rey!" again. He needs another movie to express Finn's true feelings for Rey.

Apparently Finn's true feelings for Rey are the need to tell her he's Force sensitive.

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30 minutes ago, TheLeon said:

 

One of my favorite scenes in the entire saga. It's truly wild to me that you could watch that, then write Rise of Skywalker like they did. 

 

God everything about that scene is so good. The way it's framed and shot, the cinematography, the the color scheme, the setting... And on top of that Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley giving top notch performances while doing some of the best storytelling and character work in the entire saga. Ben goes from dominant and frightening to weak and begging while Rey holds her ground. He's telling her to let everything go while everything around them is burning and falling apart. If you think TLJ is a bad movie--Star Wars or otherwise--there is something very wrong with you.

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18 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I pointed this out the other day...

Kylo Ren/Rian Johnson says "Let old things die... The Jedi, the Sith, The Resistance, The Empire, all of it."

JJ says "... No."

That sums up the two movies pretty much.

 

 

Except that is the opposite message of TLJ. That is what Ben believes (and Luke), but by the end of the movie Luke realizes he was wrong. Yoda teaches him that just because you fail, that doesn't mean the effort was worthless. He realizes that though the Jedi of the past have failed, the message of the Jedi is powerful, and can be used for good. So he sacrifices himself (with non-violence) to allow the future Resistance to escape and have hope. 

 

I swear to god, people just took that one line from the marketing and thought it was the point of the movie, even though the movie itself shows clearly that the entire point of itself is to demonstrate the opposite.

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4 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

 

God everything about that scene is so good. The way it's framed and shot, the cinematography, the the color scheme, the setting... And on top of that Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley giving top notch performances while doing some of the best storytelling and character work in the entire saga. Ben goes from dominant and frightening to weak and begging while Rey holds her ground. He's telling her to let everything go while everything around them is burning and falling apart. If you think TLJ is a bad movie--Star Wars or otherwise--there is something very wrong with you.

 

Yes, but nothing happened, is what is apparently wrong with it*

 

*this of course isn't true. The good guys (and bad guys!) simply fail in all of their plans, while at the same time developing as people and characters. The only person who actually doesn't fail is Luke.

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59 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Except that is the opposite message of TLJ. That is what Ben believes (and Luke), but by the end of the movie Luke realizes he was wrong. Yoda teaches him that just because you fail, that doesn't mean the effort was worthless. He realizes that though the Jedi of the past have failed, the message of the Jedi is powerful, and can be used for good. So he sacrifices himself (with non-violence) to allow the future Resistance to escape and have hope. 

 

I swear to god, people just took that one line from the marketing and thought it was the point of the movie, even though the movie itself shows clearly that the entire point of itself is to demonstrate the opposite.

So yeah... I took that line and the meta message of the movie was to pave the way for something new which is what Rian Johnson was setting the series up for by clearing out all of the old stuff. It has nothing to do with a "line from marketing" and more about reading the subtext. Kylo Ren wasn't wrong when he was saying to Rey (and Rian Johnson was saying to the fans) "Let go of the past." Why do you think the last shot of the film is of broom boy looking off into the stars. It's to signify that there's a universe of possibility out there and a bunch of new adventures and new stories to be had. Star Wars had been trying to move beyond the past up until The Last Jedi and its resultant reaction, then for whatever reason they course corrected. Nothing about letting go of the past means "the effort is worthless" and nothing Yoda said to Luke contradicts the message of letting go of the past. He even lets Luke believe that the Jedi texts have been destroyed in order to drive that point home. So no bro, I didn't miss or misunderstand a thing.

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45 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

Going back through the music of the ST, one of my favourite pieces is The Spark from TLJ. Especially at 2:15 when the real fun starts:

 

 

Obviously Rey's theme is awesome, too.

 

 

Spark is great, yeah. But The Last Jedi -- what plays during Kylo v Luke -- is amazing.

 

 

 

1:48 is when Kylo finally realizes that Luke's not dead. The music is so fucking good; the ending is the perfect musical representation of how confused and twisted Kylo is.

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57 minutes ago, 5timechamp said:

Im curious if in hindsight Ridley and Boyega feel differently now about their endorsing of Abrams’ story over Johnsons... disregarding storytelling but purely as a challenge in acting

 

I understand why someone might have more fun working with JJ since he exudes energy (and gets that same energy out of you)...but I don't think anyone can argue with a serious face that there were any performances in ROS that were better than TLJ. Driver was great in ROS, but he was even better in TLJ. Hamill, especially. The only one I'd grant is maybe Finn.

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1 hour ago, skillzdadirecta said:

So yeah... I took that line and the meta message of the movie was to pave the way for something new which is what Rian Johnson was setting the series up for by clearing out all of the old stuff. It has nothing to do with a "line from marketing" and more about reading the subtext. Kylo Ren wasn't wrong when he was saying to Rey (and Rian Johnson was saying to the fans) "Let go of the past." Why do you think the last shot of the film is of broom boy looking off into the stars. It's to signify that there's a universe of possibility out there and a bunch of new adventures and new stories to be had. Star Wars had been trying to move beyond the past up until The Last Jedi and its resultant reaction, then for whatever reason they course corrected. Nothing about letting go of the past means "the effort is worthless" and nothing Yoda said to Luke contradicts the message of letting go of the past. He even lets Luke believe that the Jedi texts have been destroyed in order to drive that point home. So no bro, I didn't miss or misunderstand a thing.

You really took CV to the woodshed here

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2 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

So yeah... I took that line and the meta message of the movie was to pave the way for something new which is what Rian Johnson was setting the series up for by clearing out all of the old stuff. It has nothing to do with a "line from marketing" and more about reading the subtext. Kylo Ren wasn't wrong when he was saying to Rey (and Rian Johnson was saying to the fans) "Let go of the past." Why do you think the last shot of the film is of broom boy looking off into the stars. It's to signify that there's a universe of possibility out there and a bunch of new adventures and new stories to be had. Star Wars had been trying to move beyond the past up until The Last Jedi and its resultant reaction, then for whatever reason they course corrected. Nothing about letting go of the past means "the effort is worthless" and nothing Yoda said to Luke contradicts the message of letting go of the past. He even lets Luke believe that the Jedi texts have been destroyed in order to drive that point home. So no bro, I didn't miss or misunderstand a thing.

 

14 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

You really took CV to the woodshed here

 

I think we're talking about different things here. I agree with the meta-message, but I am talking about letting go of the past in-universe (which is what I thought skillz was refering to as well), which is what a tonne of people online seem to think that Johnson was referencing (incorrectly), that it meant that Johnson thought Luke and the Jedi should all be forgotten as failures, etc, even though obviously Yoda shows Luke the opposite. The Jedi were failures in some regards, but not in all. I agree that Johnson indicated in the meta-commentary (which is something great about the movie) that Star Wars needs to move on from the standard storylines and tropes that it keeps falling into. The meta-message of the movie is to pave new ground and move on, but the in-universe message realized by Luke by the end (that people don't get in many places) is that the past can't be forgotten or let go, that it serves a purpose as an example (to utilize legend as a message of hope). I think it stems from people disliking that Luke had given up after his failure with Ben (which many people can't seem to accept as realistic), so they believe the movie sends a message that Luke was a failure for making that mistake, and that he doesn't move past it. But he clearly does move past it by the end of the movie, as evidenced by his willingness to embrace his own power and give others hope.

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