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Emperor Diocletian II

Movies ~*Colin Trevorrow's Star Wars: Episode IX - Duel of the Fates OT*~

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10 minutes ago, 2user1cup said:

Well it just shows no one at Disney is running the show like Marvel movies. 

Yeah well a complaint about the Marvel shows seems to be the sameness of all of them. The Star Wars side seems to give the director's a little more creative freedom than the Marvel side does and it seems to bite them in the ass a bit. Rian Johnson basically set JJ up creatively with something he just wasn't able to recover from... killing Snoke who JJ clearly intended to be the big bad and making Rey a nobody were two things that Rian took away from the next writer director and JJ clearly had no idea what to do from that point so he took the easy way out... "let's just revisit the hits again!" Palpatine coming back would have resonated more if there were hints of him pulling the strings back from The Force Awakens. Now that I think about it, JJ could have done a LOT of stuff with TFA and instead he reintroduces The Imperials in The First Order which for all intents and purposes, behaves a lot like The Empire. 

 

Just now, CitizenVectron said:

If JJ was a good writer he could write something interesting about the push/pull between Ben and Rey as the big emotional finale. But he is a hack.

 

I hate to second guess writer's but I agree with this. The Big Bad in the third film SHOULD have just been Kylo Ren on his own and the resolution to the conflict should have been Rey redeeming him ANY WAY. But yeah, JJ... ain't that good.

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18 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Yeah well a complaint about the Marvel shows seems to be the sameness of all of them. The Star Wars side seems to give the director's a little more creative freedom than the Marvel side does and it seems to bite them in the ass a bit. Rian Johnson basically set JJ up creatively with something he just wasn't able to recover from... killing Snoke who JJ clearly intended to be the big bad and making Rey a nobody were two things that Rian took away from the next writer director and JJ clearly had no idea what to do from that point so he took the easy way out... "let's just revisit the hits again!" Palpatine coming back would have resonated more if there were hints of him pulling the strings back from The Force Awakens. Now that I think about it, JJ could have done a LOT of stuff with TFA and instead he reintroduces The Imperials in The First Order which for all intents and purposes, behaves a lot like The Empire. 

 

Hey I actually agree with you on this. I still think TFA is a meh movie in a sandwich of bad movies. 

 

I'm more of a fan of the Marvel process, which is a lot of process. I get the "sameness" complaint but I like it. It makes them hold together, and allowed them to tell a cohesive large story. 

 

The best non-samey series is probably Harry Potter.

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25 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

If JJ was a good writer he could write something interesting about the push/pull between Ben and Rey as the big emotional finale. But he is a hack.

I think the annoying part about him going the “Emperor” route is that with a little more vision and talent it could have worked... but even the little details fail and raise more questions... why is it that at Bens moment of doubt of turning that his father appears? Is Darth Vader not his hero? why not have Anakin appear and let him into the truth that even he was able to turn to the light after being gone for so long etc etc.... u can still use Han if u want but Anakin should have been the one cementing that idea..

 

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1 hour ago, 2user1cup said:

Well it just shows no one at Disney is running the show like Marvel movies. 

 

Yo, you just argued with a bunch of people here that Disney is pulling the strings and now you're finally realizing that JJ controlled the direction because he's the director. :p 

 

But for real, Star Wars has actually allowed lots of control depending on who the director was. Lucas didn't get everything he wanted in the OT despite being the originator of the idea because he had many saying no to him. That's why ESB feels different under Irvin Kershner than A New Hope did under Lucas. And it's why the prequels felt consistent in the blander acting under Lucas even if he had good ideas that weren't implemented well.

 

I still appreciate the PT for the ideas. Hearing Luke talk about the prequels directly, about the failures of the Jedi which allowed Sidious (not the Emperor as he called him in ROTJ) rise to power, I think lifts the story of the PT. Because it always seemed weird that the Jedi couldn't detect Palpatine controlling things from the shadows as the phantom menace, but you had to accept that the Dark Side just clouded things for them. To string that into 8 -- the myth of the Jedi being better than the reality, "never meet your heroes," the Jedi failed and then Luke failed because that's what Jedi do -- was a really fantastic way to take good story ideas in an other lackluster (still enjoyable for me) PT and really making them shine. The Jedi being outsmarted and outmaneuvered by Palpatine wasn't a plot hole; it was a history of failures that should be learning lessons, where you take the good of what the Jedi represented and you learn from their mistakes. As Yoda said, "We are what they grow beyond."

 

FUCK, this makes 8 an even better end to the saga! :shock: 

 

YO.

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I’m at the theater and finally getting around to seeing this cinematic achievement. I’ll post my thoughts after. I’ve already had the whole thing spoiled but I’ll still try to watch it with an open mind.

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1 minute ago, sexy_shapiro said:

I’m at the theater and finally getting around to seeing this cinematic achievement. I’ll post my thoughts after. I’ve already had the whole thing spoiled but I’ll still try to watch it with an open mind.

 

If you don't like what you're watching, please look at the screen like 5B0D107E-09EA-4A15-B7FD-D26DC966BDF7.thu

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How did this movie not have Force Ghost Luke following Kylo Ren around tormenting him?

 

Also, wasn’t there a report that Hayden Christensen filmed scenes in this?

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25 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

How did this movie not have Force Ghost Luke following Kylo Ren around tormenting him?

 

Also, wasn’t there a report that Hayden Christensen filmed scenes in this?

 

I thought I heard that too and I really would have enjoyed seeing him "school" Kylo. And Luke not confronting Kylo is yet another missed opportunity.

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54 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

I thought I heard that too and I really would have enjoyed seeing him "school" Kylo. And Luke not confronting Kylo is yet another missed opportunity.

Yeah but HAN GET BIG CHEERS MUCH LOVE 

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3 hours ago, 2user1cup said:

Well it just shows no one at Disney is running the show like Marvel movies. 

Wait, I thought JJ and Rian did whatever the Disney overlords said :hmm:

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2 hours ago, 5timechamp said:

I think the annoying part about him going the “Emperor” route is that with a little more vision and talent it could have worked... but even the little details fail and raise more questions... why is it that at Bens moment of doubt of turning that his father appears? Is Darth Vader not his hero? why not have Anakin appear and let him into the truth that even he was able to turn to the light after being gone for so long etc etc.... u can still use Han if u want but Anakin should have been the one cementing that idea..

 

I don’t know if he’s ever seen Anakin. Han was not a force ghost, but a memory. It was Kylo kind of “doing it all over again”. Forgiving himself in a way. Kylo created his own barriers keeping him from going home and NOW he realizes that. 

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37 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Wait, I thought JJ and Rian did whatever the Disney overlords said :hmm:

 

If it was bad, then it was Disney pushing them around to appease SJWs. If it was good, it was because they rebelled against Disney. Or something.

 

Also, a big-time leaker just hinted that a Solo Rey movie (as in, a Rey movie on her own, not a Rey Solo movie) might be in the cards:

 

 

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3 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

  

 

Yo, you just argued with a bunch of people here that Disney is pulling the strings and now you're finally realizing that JJ controlled the direction because he's the director. :p 

 

 

Well I assumed Disney wasn't that dumb but that article showed me they are. Guess what, I have the capacity to evolve and change my opinion based on data. 

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24 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

Also, a big-time leaker just hinted that a Solo Rey movie (as in, a Rey movie on her own, not a Rey Solo movie) might be in the cards:

 

 

Not holding out hope. I’ll believe it when I see it. She’s been vocal about being done after IX. After the vitriol from some “fans”, I can’t say as I blame her. It’s not like she wrote her part. 
 

Anyways when ROS ended I kinda pictures Ray doing like Kora from Avatar. Just going off on her. Not to run away, but to be separate from the world. Let the world evolve without her. 

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5 minutes ago, 2user1cup said:

Well I assumed Disney wasn't that dumb but that article showed me they are. Guess what, I have the capacity to evolve and change my opinion based on data. 

 

Brah:

  

On 12/20/2019 at 12:04 PM, 2user1cup said:

It's amusing that you think they have real control. 

 

Sure, evolve, but going from, "Haha no one planned it this sucks all the movies sucked and Disney dictated it down" to "Haha this all sucks and everyone went with JJ's idea because no one else had ideas" after telling someone it's "amusing" to think a director would have a lot of control of their own movie is one hell of a half-assed evolution and apology for being so wrong. :p 

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2 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Brah:

  

 

Sure, evolve, but going from, "Haha no one planned it this sucks all the movies sucked and Disney dictated it down" to "Haha this all sucks and everyone went with JJ's idea because no one else had ideas" after telling someone it's "amusing" to think a director would have a lot of control of their own movie is one hell of a half-assed evolution and apology for being so wrong. :p 

You know there was an article posted between those things right? I'm not apologizing for a star wars discussion on a message board. It's a freaking discussion. None of this really matters. 

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12 minutes ago, 2user1cup said:

Well I assumed Disney wasn't that dumb but that article showed me they are. Guess what, I have the capacity to evolve and change my opinion based on data. 

It had already been well explained to you how you were wrong, yet you persisted :p 

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3 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Yes, I posted it.

And I responded, so... What? What do you want? Groveling?

3 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

It had already been well explained to you how you were wrong, yet you persisted :p 

So what? I changed my mind a few posts later? Do you want an award?

 

number one win GIF by V5MT

 

You win. You were right about JJ and Disney being worse than I thought! Congrats.

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1 minute ago, 2user1cup said:

And I responded, so... What? What do you want? Groveling?

So what? 

 

 

 

 

I'm saying you didn't really "evolve." It's half-baked. Read it again:

 

"Sure, evolve, but going from, "Haha no one planned it this sucks all the movies sucked and Disney dictated it down" to "Haha this all sucks and everyone went with JJ's idea because no one else had ideas" after telling someone it's "amusing" to think a director would have a lot of control of their own movie is one hell of a half-assed evolution and apology for being so wrong."

 

It went from a Corporate plot-by-committee story to all directors could do it themselves and you used both to show what a bad approach it is.

 

That's lame. :p 

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That's not what happened at all. 

 

I went from there's no way Disney is letting these dudes do it on their own terms

[article]

Disney is dumb wtf!!

 

 

 

I'm not inconsistent either. My first point was that Disney must pull the strings therefore it's not all JJ or Rian's fault. After shown otherwise it shows that it is their fault (and Disney by allowing it) and I still believe Disney SHOULD have been pulling the strings to control the franchise. 

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I really didn't hate this movie. It has pacing problems, but it was still fun. Thats all I want out of a Star Wars movie, and it did that. I had fun, twice. 

 

I know there are still problems and plot holes, but that is the case with every Star Wars movie. I won't ever hold it up as one of the greats, but I enjoyed it, and I liked the ending, that was enough for me. 

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4 hours ago, MarSolo said:

How did this movie not have Force Ghost Luke following Kylo Ren around tormenting him?

 

Also, wasn’t there a report that Hayden Christensen filmed scenes in this?

His voice is in with the rest when the dead Jedi lend Rey their force strength.

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4 minutes ago, TheGreatGamble said:

I really didn't hate this movie. It has pacing problems, but it was still fun. Thats all I want out of a Star Wars movie, and it did that. I had fun, twice. 

 

I know there are still problems and plot holes, but that is the case with every Star Wars movie. I won't ever hold it up as one of the greats, but I enjoyed it, and I liked the ending, that was enough for me. 

season 6 dewey largo GIF

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2 hours ago, 2user1cup said:

season 6 dewey largo GIF

 

It's not his fault. The OT is a classic. People expecting that anymore should have learned from the prequels. That being said, this movie was particularly bad.

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This is a hard movie to digest. The movie had way too much going but so little did I actually care about. I kept hearing about the pacing being way too fast, and boy were they right. The emperor’s whole fleet is resurrected within five fucking minutes! I swear there are 10 scenes within the first twenty minutes. The only time the movie settles down is oddly enough the third act because they are no longer planet hopping every five minutes.

 

The pacing was hard for me to get adjusted to at first. For the first hour I had trouble even remembering the scene that came before the previous one because I had barely any time to process an individual scene. After a certain point I gave into this relentless groove. But wow, the pacing alone makes this a bad movie. So little in the movie is blatantly terrible but just seeing a lot of blandness scenes at an unprecedented rate for over two hours was numbing. The culmination of sitting through all of that was way more worse than any individual scene.

 

With that said I still found bits that I enjoyed. The emotional beats towards the end worked. Rey accidentally harming Chewie was a great moment, but it’s too bad that the movie was too safe to commit to a bold choice like that. I do wish more of consequence happened, though.

 

Overall I felt empty as I left the theater. After a few hours passed I began to feel bummed out as I began to realize this is what it the culmination of an entire saga. As an individual film it is bad enough. As the end of not just a trilogy, but a trilogy of trilogies, it becomes even worse.

 

7 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

 

If you don't like what you're watching, please look at the screen like 5B0D107E-09EA-4A15-B7FD-D26DC966BDF7.thu

 

It’s been hours since leaving the theater and my face is still stuck in that position.

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20 minutes ago, sexy_shapiro said:

I was very disappointed with the Emperor. He could have been more camp and fun. This time around he was just blandly creepy.

 

I actually was spooked by him. Those eyes, man. I thought the orange was spooky in Revenge of the Sith, but the white eyes were disturbing. It was more similar to Episode 6 than 3.

 

My issue, and I have a hard time articulating it, is that he didn't seem like he was controlling the enemy. Meaning, it was obvious that Snoke was in control of the First Order. And it was obvious that the Emperor was in control of the Empire. But with Palpatine arriving out of the blue in this movie, when he shouts something like, "Don't fear their feeble attack!" he just seemed disconnected from the battle overhead.

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8 minutes ago, 2user1cup said:

The lady in red who sounded like Nebula (same actress??) - I wanted to know more about her, but she was just there to hand them a disc 

Not same actress. She was the wife in the show The Americans on FX. at least that’s what I know her from. 

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36 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Not same actress. She was the wife in the show The Americans on FX. at least that’s what I know her from. 

 

Dear god how old are you guys? That's Felicity! Created by one JJ Abrams

 

 

I never watched the show but I knew what it was :p She was also in Mission Impossible three 

 

 

Also directed by one JJ Abrams... see a pattern?

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4 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

Dear god how old are you guys? That's Felicity! Created by one JJ Abrams

 

 

I never watched the show but I knew what it was :p She was also in Mission Impossible three 

 

 

Also directed by one JJ Abrams... see a pattern?

No pattern

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Alright, so I’ll nerd out some here in the geeky things I accept, but I would be happier if they were different. 
 

Rey Palpatine. Not a fan of her being a Palpatine. I’d be ok if her parent was adopted by Palpatine for appearances and she was a child of that adopted kid and spouse. Hunted to be taken to Sidious because of how strong she was in the force. And Palpatine wanted her to be his apprentice or turned into a sith assassin. That angle I’d be ok with, but I had grown fond of the idea that Rey embodied the idea that a hero can come from anywhere. It doesn’t have to be the same bloodlines affecting the galaxy. 
 

 

Rey using Force Lighting. I’m not sure if it is canon, legends, or both; but it had been established at one time that Force Lightning was a pretty heavy dark side ability. Not only could you not do it if you just dabbled in the dark side, or got a little angry. You had really tap into your hatred and anger and break the force to your will. Also it was either impossible or just nearly impossible to perform force lightning unless yo felt it used in you first. It was how a Sith master would start their apprentice’s training to use it. First they had to feel its power in themselves. Making it something Rey just did because of her bloodline feels to trivialize it’s significance. 
 

 

This weird concept of Rey and Kylo/Ben being a “force dyad”. Are they super duper special? Does this mean Vader and Sidious should have been a force dyad. I get that doing this let JJ get away with far more force stuff between the two. Adds more explanation to their force link, makes the link stronger to allow for more spectacular displays. But it comes across as something that actually causes more questions than it answers. It feels to stretch believability  more than if we just left it as Rey and Kylo have an extremely strong connection towards each other through the force. The strength of which is beyond what Snoke thought was possible and had he known he might not have creating this bridge between them. It would be more interesting if the link actually caused Rey and Kylo to feel some of what the other feels. Pain, sorrow, rage, and joy. And Kylo used this to try to turn Rey, but it was feeling Rey’s found sense of belonging and love for her friends and desire to save people whittled away at the darkness in Kylo, later to be completely broken through by Leia, as we saw.  
 

Fatally exhausting use of the Force. Felt over used between Ep8 and Ep9. In total 4 people died from their own over use of the Force. By the time it happened to Ben it had gotten funny. The impact was lost. Instead allow Leia to die in a different way. Like maybe she stays behind to reach Kylo in meditation and a Sith Star Destroyer destroys the planet she’s on having found the Resistance base, but after most of have left. And Leia dies while reaching Kylo. Then Rey takes significant damage from the Force lightning from Palpatine, even though she was able to push/blast the lighting back at him. That critically wounds her and that is what Kylo expends himself to heal her. 
 

Lack of Anakin. I do like that this was Rey’s story, but felt there should have been more closure for the Skywalkers. I would have liked to have seen Anakin appear behind Rey helping to channel the Force through her after she snags the second lightsaber, then have Ben also climb up and join in to assist. For my fellow DBZ fans, kind of like how Goku helped Gohan defeat Perfect Cell. 
 

These were the biggest things that stuck out to me that kinda bugged me from a lore/saga perspective. In the end I can live what they did do, because there is no other choice. But I can also feel it could have done better. A bit more creative, a bit more meaningful. And while it feels weird to say, require a little less of a leap in logic and believability for the audience. Be a bit more “grounded” for Star Wars. 

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