Movies ~*Colin Trevorrow's Star Wars: Episode IX - Duel of the Fates OT*~

[Kal-El814]

50 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

The best thing about that post is the person’s dedication to taking it all the way to its conclusion. There are many points where it could have ended with a reasonable chuckle, but they press on.

This, with “can’t cleave the Sheev” as a photo finish second place. 

[Greatoneshere]

17 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

"Y everyone no kill themselves and nuke everything?" is the worst conversation about a movie I've ever read. Here's a movie showing someone last minute sacrificing herself to save the Resistance, "saving what we love" (which we saw several times), and armchair film directors who think they could do it better are trying to break down the science of a fantasy film.

 

Yep. Was going to respond to @number305 but realized he's making all kinds of assumptions about Star Wars based on the films that I've never seen and I'm a deep Star Wars fan. Droids can do everything else? Since when? Your point that it doesn't even matter I wish was more well taken.

 

The First Order all the time wants to destroy entire planets and galaxies? No they don't. They like doing shows of force. They are arrogant and overconfident. Their super weapons are meant to subdue the masses and invoke fear, not to actually be used for fun. This is a war, not wanton destruction and genocide. The First Order is an organization, it wants to rule all people, not kill them all.

 

I feel the narrative forest has been lost for the technical trees and I don't see why. Other movies have gotten far bigger passes than TLJ but people can't seem to let otherwise beautifully done scenes go based on "fill in the gap" presumptions I've never seen like "droids can do everything else" and "the First Order's goal is to wipe out everyone, so why don't they always do Holdo's maneavur?" I mean . . . when were either of those things established as some sort of consistent thing that's done? At best Star Wars is inconsistent with droids and at best the First Order is a Nazi-like group, not a genocidal war machine trying to snuff out all life in the galaxy (if they were, then I'd agree with you).

 

I saw Holdo's maneauver as a beautiful sacrifice, not only gorgeous to look at and fist pump at, but it was something completely new we'd never seen in a Star Wars flm. Yeah, I'll take that. I'm not surprised so many are excited for JJ's fan service fest. It's basically what many wanted with TLJ.

[legend]

23 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

The key is crashing into ships was easier for the Japanese, but we only had the Japanese doing it. Germany didn't. Russia didn't. Italy didn't.

 

"Y everyone no kill themselves and nuke everything?" is the worst conversation about a movie I've ever read. Here's a movie showing someone last minute sacrificing herself to save the Resistance, "saving what we love" (which we saw several times), and armchair film directors who think they could do it better are trying to break down the science of a fantasy film.

 

That's why I said the key was us not being to automate something like that back then. If you can automate it, you don't have to kill yourself.

 

Today, we *can* automate ramming a plane into something, or least do it without losing a life via remote drone control. But we don't do that either because using a plane isn't nearly as effective as we saw in SW. (That's the other piece about power differential).

[GeneticBlueprint]

It seems to me that a fairly established rule in Star Wars was that you always have to calculate a route when going to "light" speed. To me that indicates that if you want a manual override of that to ram something then it probably couldn't fall to a droid or automation but would require sentient input.

[Guest]

Another really really really crucial rule in Star Wars: something always works if it’s cool enough.

[SaysWho?]

28 minutes ago, legend said:

 

That's why I said the key was us not being to automate something like that back then. If you can automate it, you don't have to kill yourself.

 

Today, we *can* automate ramming a plane into something, or least do it without losing a life via remote drone control. But we don't do that either because using a plane isn't nearly as effective as we saw in SW. (That's the other piece about power differential).

@Keyser_Soze will be the judge of if we can automate ramming a plane into something, or at least do it without losing a life via remote drone control. 

[number305]

42 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Yep. Was going to respond to @number305 but realized he's making all kinds of assumptions about Star Wars based on the films that I've never seen and I'm a deep Star Wars fan. Droids can do everything else? Since when? Your point that it doesn't even matter I wish was more well taken.

 

The First Order all the time wants to destroy entire planets and galaxies? No they don't. They like doing shows of force. They are arrogant and overconfident. Their super weapons are meant to subdue the masses and invoke fear, not to actually be used for fun. This is a war, not wanton destruction and genocide. The First Order is an organization, it wants to rule all people, not kill them all.

 

I feel the narrative forest has been lost for the technical trees and I don't see why. Other movies have gotten far bigger passes than TLJ but people can't seem to let otherwise beautifully done scenes go based on "fill in the gap" presumptions I've never seen like "droids can do everything else" and "the First Order's goal is to wipe out everyone, so why don't they always do Holdo's maneavur?" I mean . . . when were either of those things established as some sort of consistent thing that's done? At best Star Wars is inconsistent with droids and at best the First Order is a Nazi-like group, not a genocidal war machine trying to snuff out all life in the galaxy (if they were, then I'd agree with you).

 

I saw Holdo's maneauver as a beautiful sacrifice, not only gorgeous to look at and fist pump at, but it was something completely new we'd never seen in a Star Wars flm. Yeah, I'll take that. I'm not surprised so many are excited for JJ's fan service fest. It's basically what many wanted with TLJ.

I guess I'm a little dumbfounded.  I didn't think I was saying anything out of order.

 

Droids are shown to be pretty high level in Star wars.  They even show emotion and are self aware.

 

The first order/Empire spent 40 years creating 3 separate devices with the express intent of destroying worlds.  Alderan was destroyed by the Empire purely as a demonstration and a test of the first death star (they were unaware there was a rebel base on the planet).  This shows they were not very picky at all about using their destructive power or killing millions of innocent people on a whim.

[number305]

Again my only problem with the scene is that it introduces that ability into the Star Wars universe.  So from now on it is a viable resolution or option which can make things tricky going forward.

 

Its like when Superman flew around the world to turn back time... from that point on it is valid to ask every time something bad happens... why doesn't Superman just reverse time to fix it.

[skillzdadirecta]

I was about to start typing another response then blood started dripping from my nose onto my phone so... I'm checking out before I have an aneurysm. 

[number305]

Just now, skillzdadirecta said:

I was about to start typing another response then blood started dripping from my nose onto my phone so... I'm checking out before I have an aneurysm. 

LOL.  I hope I'm not pissing you off that bad.  Man we can talk star wars with out getting mad can't we?

[skillzdadirecta]

3 minutes ago, number305 said:

LOL.  I hope I'm not pissing you off that bad.  Man we can talk star wars with out getting mad can't we?

Lol nobody is pissing me off... just the level of astrophysics going on about Star Wars is literally making me dizzy. This series has always been fantasy, not science fiction and I could easily counter you guys points about Planets constantly moving vs ships by saying that planets tend to have predictable orbits and that can be factored in to any calculations that warp drive computers make before a jump. Ships dont. Not to mention the fact that they are MUCH smaller than any interplanetary body.  So to hit a ship from across a star system with a hyperspeed Kamikaze attack would be like a sniper trying to hit a bullet fired from someone else gun from miles away. But even the effort put into typing that just made me dizzy so...

[number305]

4 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Lol nobody is pissing me off... just the level of astrophysics going on about Star Wars is literally making me dizzy. This series has always been fantasy, not science fiction and I could easily counter you guys points about Planets constantly moving vs ships by saying that planets tend to have predictable orbits and that can be factored in to any calculations that warp drive computers make before a jump. Ships dont. Not to mention the fact that they are MUCH smaller than any interplanetary body.  So to hit a ship from across a star system with a hyperspeed Kamikaze attack would be like a sniper trying to hit a bullet fired from someone else gun from miles away. But even the effort put into typing that just made me dizzy so...

I would counter that with their computers have to be a lot more advanced than ours so, except for some reason much of their interface seems to be stuck in the late 70's. 

[legend]

9 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Lol nobody is pissing me off... just the level of astrophysics going on about Star Wars is literally making me dizzy. This series has always been fantasy, not science fiction and I could easily counter you guys points about Planets constantly moving vs ships by saying that planets tend to have predictable orbits and that can be factored in to any calculations that warp drive computers make before a jump. Ships dont. Not to mention the fact that they are MUCH smaller than any interplanetary body.  So to hit a ship from across a star system with a hyperspeed Kamikaze attack would be like a sniper trying to hit a bullet fired from someone else gun from miles away. But even the effort put into typing that just made me dizzy so...

 

Oh yeah, it's all nonsense and we shouldn't be bothered by it now if we weren't before. But if we're debating it lets get out the fucking calculator!  

[nublood]

Man, I'm really trying to manufacture hype for this movie. But at this point I think they're just making up the story as they go along. Like hey I know we screwed up with TLJ, so here's a fan service movie that doesn't really follow our original story to please fans. lol

[SaysWho?]

32 minutes ago, nublood said:

Like hey I know we screwed up with TLJ

 

Nah, it's screwed up some people, but it didn't screw up the franchise!  

[GeneticBlueprint]

TLJ was a financial and critical darling. Its sequel is breaking pre-order records. I'm sure Disney is really upset with how TLJ turned out.

[skillzdadirecta]

If you say something enough times with conviction,  it will be true. Our President does that all the time.

[nublood]

2 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

If you say something enough times with conviction,  it will be true. Our President does that all the time.

Like saying TLJ was a good Star Wars movie.

[skillzdadirecta]

3 minutes ago, nublood said:

Like saying TLJ was a good Star Wars movie.

[Kal-El814]

17 minutes ago, nublood said:

Like saying TLJ was a good Star Wars movie.

True. It was great. 

[johnny]

I love how TLJ haters consistently get smacked around for saying ridiculous things in Star Wars threads on here lol 

[TheGreatGamble]

13 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

As we now know, throwing someone off a cliff doesn't kill them (unless they are Mace Windu or Han Solo). Darth Maul and Sheev Palpatine apparently both survived their falls! So it really only kills you if you are a good guy.

Palpatine did die, its his force ghost or whatever that was able to survive, Solo was stabbed with a lightsaber first, and Mace was badly shocked with force lightning beforehand.... So not really. Maul did somehow survive though.

[TheGreatGamble]

9 hours ago, number305 said:

I guess I'm a little dumbfounded.  I didn't think I was saying anything out of order.

 

Droids are shown to be pretty high level in Star wars.  They even show emotion and are self aware.

 

The first order/Empire spent 40 years creating 3 separate devices with the express intent of destroying worlds.  Alderan was destroyed by the Empire purely as a demonstration and a test of the first death star (they were unaware there was a rebel base on the planet).  This shows they were not very picky at all about using their destructive power or killing millions of innocent people on a whim.

Alderan was destroyed to try to make Leia fear them enough to tell them what they wanted. Not just to test the Death Star. 

[TheGreatGamble]

9 hours ago, number305 said:

I would counter that with their computers have to be a lot more advanced than ours so, except for some reason much of their interface seems to be stuck in the late 70's. 

If anything, I would say the rebels (this is obviously head cannon) would have used as much analog control over digital to prevent hacking by the empire, by not using too many computers. It's quite obvious the Empires systems are much more advanced and computerized. 

 

I mean the Falcon couldn't even plot courses without Lando's droid, before she became an actual part of the ship. I know the Falcon wasn't a rebel ship originally, but a smuggler would want as little high technology as possible too. Computer Tech is easy to track, and gets hacked all the time. It might just be easier to use droids and manual input, instead of quantum or whatever computing they are using. 

[Keyser_Soze]

8 hours ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

TLJ was a financial and critical darling. Its sequel is breaking pre-order records. I'm sure Disney is really upset with how TLJ turned out.

 

As long as it's called Star Wars it's going to make money no matter how bad or good it is.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

15 hours ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

TLJ was a financial and critical darling. Its sequel is breaking pre-order records. I'm sure Disney is really upset with how TLJ turned out.

Kathleen Kennedy will be fired any day now. 
 

You cannot over see the making of a billion dollar grossing movie without career ending consequences. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

As long as it's called Star Wars it's going to make money no matter how bad or good it is.

Did you already forget about Solo?

[Kal-El814]

9 hours ago, sblfilms said:

Did you already forget about Solo?

You mean the movie people boycotted to send a message and other lies?

[Reputator]

On 10/25/2019 at 5:25 PM, GeneticBlueprint said:

TLJ was a financial and critical darling. Its sequel is breaking pre-order records. I'm sure Disney is really upset with how TLJ turned out.

 

Obviously they have no reason to change course because of backlash, but the re-appearance of Luke's saber, the reassembly of Kylo Ren's helmet, and Luke's voice saying "No one is ever really gone" shown in the first trailer struck me and a lot of others as backtracking. This is likely due to creative differences between the storytellers, and it really remains to be seen if, at least in regards to those objects, the story was better served showing them destroyed in the first place.

[Kal-El814]

They made a second Death Star. Jedi come back as Force ghosts. It's not backtracking, it's Star Wars.

[Reputator]

41 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

They made a second Death Star. Jedi come back as Force ghosts. It's not backtracking, it's Star Wars.

 

This isn't a strong defense. Your first example is even a widely criticized aspect of the OT story.

[Kal-El814]

1 minute ago, Reputator said:

This isn't a strong defense. Your first example is even a widely criticized aspect of the OT story.

That doesn't make it any less Star Wars, though.

 

TLJ made $1.3B. There's nothing to backtrack from.

[Reputator]

1 minute ago, Kal-El814 said:

That doesn't make it any less Star Wars, though.

 

TLJ made $1.3B. There's nothing to backtrack from.

 

I gave examples of backtracking. They're already there. Why are you moving the argument to say "there's no reason to backtrack"?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Reputator said:

 

This isn't a strong defense. Your first example is even a widely criticized aspect of the OT story.

It’s not a defense, it’s an explanation of the truth. Star Wars is all narrative, imagery, and thematic loops since day one. The fact that JJ doesn’t have an original thought in his creative brain works well for that. I don’t think there is anything RJ could have done with TLJ that would change the direction JJ is going with his ROTJ riff.

[Kal-El814]

2 minutes ago, Reputator said:

I gave examples of backtracking. They're already there. Why are you moving the argument to say "there's no reason to backtrack"?

You gave examples of things the franchise has always done. They're not backtracking because there's nothing to backtrack from. I'm not moving the goalposts, I'm explaining how looking at Kylo and thinking that remaking his helmet is backtracking is just projection.