Movies ~*Colin Trevorrow's Star Wars: Episode IX - Duel of the Fates OT*~

[Reputator]

3 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

It’s not a defense, it’s an explanation of the truth. Star Wars is all narrative, imagery, and thematic loops since day one. The fact that JJ doesn’t have an original thought in his creative brain works well for that. I don’t think there is anything RJ could have done with TLJ that would change the direction JJ is going with his ROTJ riff.

I see I've riled up the usual suspects.

 

2 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

You gave examples of things the franchise has always done. They're not backtracking because there's nothing to backtrack from. I'm not moving the goalposts, I'm explaining how looking at Kylo and thinking that remaking his helmet is backtracking is just projection.

They destroyed his helmet. Then they remade it. That's....literally backtracking. Like I can't...how else can I explain that more clearly? That's not projection, that's literally what backtracking is. It's also not projecting to say that JJ and Rian clearly had differing story ideas, and we're seeing that play out.

[Guest]

“Another Death Star? backtracking!” - @Reputatorthe second and third time they made a Death Star in Star Wars, probably

[Reputator]

4 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

“Another Death Star? backtracking!” - @Reputatorthe second and third time they made a Death Star in Star Wars, probably

 

That's REALLY not the most flattering point you can make about Star Wars. You can love it, and I'm sure you do, but there are plenty of examples of new ideas as well. In fact I recall that being one of the key defenses you and others have made about TLJ: the fact that it took risks rather than rehashing story ideas. If there's one guy who likes to break Star Wars "loops", it's the guy that made Looper.

 

The fact that we're seeing the Resistance cart out most of its ship designs from OT also isn't encouraging. I don't recall quite so many recycled ships and concepts in the prequels, other issues aside.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Reputator said:

 

That's REALLY not the most flattering point you can make about Star Wars. You can love it, and I'm sure you do, but there are plenty of examples of new ideas as well. In fact I recall that being one of the key defenses you and others have made about TLJ: the fact that it took risks rather than rehashing story ideas. If there's one guy who likes to break Star Wars "loops", it's the guy that made Looper.

 

The fact that we're seeing the Resistance cart out most of its ship designs from OT also isn't encouraging. I don't recall quite so many recycled ships and concepts in the prequels, other issues aside.

I guess my point is unclear and I’m about to go to bed, so I’ll just leave it be. Til next time  

[cusideabelincoln]

1 hour ago, Reputator said:

They destroyed his helmet. Then they remade it. That's....literally backtracking. Like I can't...how else can I explain that more clearly? That's not projection, that's literally what backtracking is. It's also not projecting to say that JJ and Rian clearly had differing story ideas, and we're seeing that play out.

 

Along the with thematic shifts in TLJ from TFA, we were also literally told to, "Let old things die."  

[Keyser_Soze]

14 hours ago, sblfilms said:

Did you already forget about Solo?

 

Still made it's money back.

[CitizenVectron]

On 10/25/2019 at 11:07 PM, TheGreatGamble said:

Palpatine did die, its his force ghost or whatever that was able to survive, Solo was stabbed with a lightsaber first, and Mace was badly shocked with force lightning beforehand.... So not really. Maul did somehow survive though.

 

No, I can almost guarantee that Palpatine will be physically alive. And I am 70% certain that he won't even explain it. It will be JJ's ultimate mystery fuck you box.

[CitizenVectron]

.

[johnny]

The only thing worse than Palpatine still being alive is palpatines force ghost being a villain in the movie. 

[TheGreatGamble]

1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

No, I can almost guarantee that Palpatine will be physically alive. And I am 70% certain that he won't even explain it. It will be JJ's ultimate mystery fuck you box.

Not a chance. He was always about cloning and cheating death through force transfer. It's not going to be palpatine in his original body. 

[CayceG]

This is for all you dorks that want the backstory context of First Order vs. New Republic politics.

 

 

IS THIS WHAT YOU REALLY WANT??

[sexy_shapiro]

The trailer looks cool but at the same time it does nothing for me. I’ll see it, but honneslty I’m much more interested in the bizarre spectacle of the Cats movie than I am in uninteresting fan-service.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Still made it's money back.

Not a chance. Due to firing the directors mid movie, it was the most expensive Star Wars movie to date at well over 300 million. P&A was another 200+ million. It didn’t even gross 400 million worldwide, of which Disney only keeps a little more than half.

[skillzdadirecta]

7 hours ago, TheGreatGamble said:

Not a chance. He was always about cloning and cheating death through force transfer. It's not going to be palpatine in his original body. 

 

Didn't he do this in the extended universe that Star Wars nerds revere so much?

[skillzdadirecta]

2 hours ago, sexy_shapiro said:

The trailer looks cool but at the same time it does nothing for me. I’ll see it, but honneslty I’m much more interested in the bizarre spectacle of the Cats movie than I am in uninteresting fan-service.

 

You're going to see that? Good luck with the nightmares it's gonna bring you... that movie looks creepy as hell 

[CitizenVectron]

2 hours ago, CayceG said:

This is for all you dorks that want the backstory context of First Order vs. New Republic politics.

 

 

IS THIS WHAT YOU REALLY WANT??

 

I wanted the single 60 second scene that was cut from TFA (but filmed) on the capital that showed Leia's enjoy begging the Chancellor for help and being turned down due to the Senate being bought out by the FO, and it being hinted that lead herself was being hunted by the Republic.

[CitizenVectron]

8 hours ago, TheGreatGamble said:

Not a chance. He was always about cloning and cheating death through force transfer. It's not going to be palpatine in his original body. 

 

You underestimate the power of the mystery box.

[skillzdadirecta]

52 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

I wanted the single 60 second scene that was cut from TFA (but filmed) on the capital that showed Leia's enjoy begging the Chancellor for help and being turned down due to the Senate being bought out by the FO, and it being hinted that lead herself was being hunted by the Republic.

This would have explained a lot because I don't think a lot of people got that in the new trilogy the Resistance and the Republic were separate. They could have explained the state of the galaxy a little better to be honest because it's a little more complex than "Empire vs Rebels".

[Jason]

On 10/25/2019 at 11:47 AM, GeneticBlueprint said:

It seems to me that a fairly established rule in Star Wars was that you always have to calculate a route when going to "light" speed. To me that indicates that if you want a manual override of that to ram something then it probably couldn't fall to a droid or automation but would require sentient input.

 

I've seen the suggestion that this is what Han is talking about when he talks about how many parsecs he can do the Kessel Run in--that there's probably a standard route that most people take, but that because he's such a great pilot that he can take a shorter but more difficult route.

[skillzdadirecta]

On 10/25/2019 at 9:57 AM, Kal-El814 said:

Fuck it, this is as good an excuse as any to post this absolute gem of a thesis on Obi-Wan abusing the high ground. I had nothing to do with making it, god knows I wish I had. Spoilers for Rebels, I guess.

 

————————————

 

Obi-Wan doesn't need to be on the high ground, the high ground just needs to exist within the battle; Obi-Wan knows that when he has the low ground, he really has the high ground, from a certain point of view; see Diagram A.

 

Look at his battle record:

 

Maul: Has low ground, wins Example A

 

Dooku: No high ground, loses

 

Dooku rematch: No high ground, loses Example B.

 

Greivous: Has low ground, wins Example C

 

Vader: Has high ground, wins

 

Vader rematch: No high ground, loses

 

Obi-Wan with the high/low ground is canonically the most powerful Jedi. This is fact. Had Yoda not denied his request to battle The Senate with typical Jedi arrogance, Obi-Wan could have defeated Palpatine in the Senate building, which housed a variety of different altitudes; this was designed so that the Chancellor could always have the moral high ground in political debates. But Obi-wan didn't fight The Senate, and Yoda soon learned that you can't cleave the Sheev in a normal 1v1. It took the Tusken Raiders years of conflict against Old Ben Kenobi to grasp his superiority in terrain advantage, as you see them visibly flee in ANH when they realize he holds the low (inverse-high) ground; this was the optimal strategy against a near-invincible opponent.

 

Yoda is shorter than virtually every other fighter, which gives him a permanent low-ground disadvantage; however, his saber-fighting style utilizes a flipping-heavy technique in order to negate this weakness for a temporary window. You'll notice that, after falling from the central podium in The Senate's building, he immediately retreats upon realizing he is on the lowest ground. You'll also notice that, while training Luke, he rides on him like a mount, to gain the intellectual high ground and accelerate Luke's training. Example D . Obi-Wan's defensive Form III lightsaber style synergizes with his careful military maneuvers; as he only strikes when prepared, he can always hold the strategic high ground. (The business on Cato Neimodia doesn't count.) You'll come to realize that this is why Commander Cody's artillery strike failed against Obi-Wan, when hundreds of Jedi were killed in similar attacks. Cody failed to grasp the strategic situation, as the Jedi Master's elevation was superior to his by hundreds of meters, making him virtually unkillable. (You'll notice that all the Jedi killed in Order 66 were on level ground with the clones, thereby assuring their demise.) Had Cody taken his time and engaged the Jedi on even terrain, he would have succeeded. Obi-Wan subsequently retreated under the surface of the lake, so that he could maintain the topographical low/high ground. This is why Obi-Wan is so willing to fight against impossible odds to the point where he thrusts himself in immediate danger; when your probability of victory is 1-to-10, you have the statistical (and therefore strategic) low ground, a numerical advantage when you use your point of view to flip the value to 10/1 . Almost losing is, in Obi-Wan's case, certain victory. (See Example E).

 

As we all know, spinning is a good trick. However, only the Chosen One can spin outside of a starfighter. Palpatine tried spinning, but he lost due to this technique (but this was intentional, as losing gave him the emotional high ground when Anakin arrived). The reason for this is that spinning provides a yin-yang approach to combat (based in Eastern philosophy on balance), giving the spinner the high ground from above and below. Only the Chosen One can master the spin, as it is their destiny to maintain balance in the universe. This is why Obi-Wan was so emotional after defeating Vader on Mustafar; he expected to lose the high ground to the spin, but Anakin fell to the dark side and could no longer use his signature trick, becoming the very thing he swore to destroy. Additionally, Anakin told Obi-Wan that, from "[his] point of view, the Jedi are evil". This broadens Anakin's mind to the concept of relativity in the context of the moral high ground, a mere step away from tactical comprehension.

 

Anakin doesn't hate sand for the reasons he told Padme; all Jedi hate sand, as the battlefield can rapidly change between low and high ground on multiple vectors, so your perspective must be from a certain three-dimensional point of view in order to comprehend who holds the high ground. This is the only reason why Obi-Wan killed Maul in Rebels. This is also the reason why Obi-Wan hates flying; there is no gravity in space, therefore there is no high or low ground from any frame of reference (This also negates the spinning trick, as noted in Example F).

 

In ANH, Vader proves his newfound mastery by engaging Obi on perfectly even ground. However, Obi-Wan intentionally sacrifices himself on the Death Star, so that he could train Luke from a higher plane of existence, thereby giving him the metaphysical high ground Example G.

 

Why was Vader so invested in the construction and maintenance of the Death Star? Because he knows Obi-wan can't have the high ground if there's no ground left. Image A. As seen through the events of the Clone Wars, Obi-Wan was known to be on friendly terms with Senator Organa, whose homeworld held large quantities of mountainous terrain, the perfect habitat for a Jedi Master. Grand Moff Tarkin was already in position to destroy Alderaan as a first target, as the distance from Scarif to Alderaan was too vast to reach between the escape and recapture of the Tantive IV, even at 1.0 lightspeed. Alderaan had been the initial target all along, as Obi-Wan with the high ground was the primary threat to the Death Star. How? Because a moon-sized space station would have some form of gravitational pull, thereby negating Obi-Wan's zero-gravity weakness; Obi-Wan with the perpetual high-ground in a low-orbit starfighter would easily be able to fire proton torpedoes through a ventilation shaft, although the Empire was uncertain of the specific weakness of the Death Star planted by Galen Erso (who was a good friend).

 

In Return of the Jedi, you can see that the Throne Room contains a variety of different altitudes; Palpatine placed these there to ensure Vader's defeat. However, Sheev failed to realize that his weakness was no ground, and should have covered that useless gaping pit which does nothing.

 

A common misconception is the idea of a 'prostrate position' version of the high ground, wherein Obi-Wan lies flat on his back, giving him tactical superiority from his point of view. However, this strategy is futile, as for the high ground to come into effect, there must be a differential between parties on both the x-axis and y-axis to a moderately significant variation from both absolutes (Angles only a Sith would deal in). For Obi-Wan's high ground powers to be in full effect, he must stand between 15 and 75 degrees (π/12 to 5π/12 radians) diagonal from his opponent(s) on any quadrant of the area circle; this has been dubbed the Trigonometric Perspective Diagram. (Diagram B). The total effect for conventional high ground advantage can be calculated via the MetaComm Equation, or f(x) = lim 0→x π/12 | 7π/12 5π/12 | 11π/12 Ʃ(x) (2tan(x) / 3sin(x) + (log10Δ)) * cΦ

 

Δ = distance on hypotenuse (meters)

 

Φ = Surrounding Force [c (variable) * β (Earth Gravity) * (pressure (psi)/2.2)]

 

'x' refers to the angle of contact between the two parties on, with advantage being based purely on position on the Y-axis, as the vast majority of force users base their perception on elevation rather than spacial relativity.

 

The power of gravitational force has great effect on the high ground; too weak, and the high ground holds no traction; too strong and the ground becomes the real enemy. Experimentation has proven that the high ground typically holds significant value between .8 and 1.4 β (Earth Gravities) with maximum impact standing roughly equal to 1.05.

 

Pressure is equally important, as it is a surrounding force attached to gravity (the high ground has famously low impact in aquatic environments). Pressure(λ) is measured in pounds per square inch (psi), to be used as a gravity multiplier (or division if pressure is sub-atmospheric; Φ (Surrounding Force) is a variable defined as β * 2.2λ , with no metric value assigned due to its singular application in the MetaComm equations.

In situations regarding Obi-Wan and his relativistic point of view, you must substitute the Quadrilateral MetaComm Equation (the Jedi Master function), f(x) = lim 0→x minmaxƩ (2tan(x) / 3sin(x) ) * (1.2)cΦ [min = (|cos(x)| = 1) | (|sin(x)| = 1) + π/12 ), max = (|cos(x)| = 1) | (|sin(x)| = 1) + 5π/12 ].

 

The viable Φ field is expanded, as Obi-Wan has taken advantage of the high ground in so many different environments that he simply uses it more efficiently, and the min/max values apply due to his multidimensional point of view, evidenced by the Trigonometric Perspective Diagram. Additionally, the distance factor does not affect Obi-Wan, as spacetime can be perseptively compressed, giving him the ideal Δ value from his point of reference.

 

In conclusion, Obi-Wan abuses spatial relativity and Taoist doctrine in order to always invoke his high-ground powers. To properly analyze the strategic genius of Kenobi, one must hold advanced knowledge in Philosophy, Mathematics, and Calculus-based Physics, and be able to integrate these topics together.

 

 

 

I just read this and 

[Massdriver]

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Interdictor-class_Star_Destroyer

I remember these from Tie Fighter. 

 

Star Wars does have a technology that prevent ships from going to hyperspace and for pulling them out of it. They could use this to explain why ramming is usually not possible, but you don’t see these in the movies. 

[GeneticBlueprint]

54 minutes ago, Massdriver said:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Interdictor-class_Star_Destroyer

I remember these from Tie Fighter. 

 

Star Wars does have a technology that prevent ships from going to hyperspace and for pulling them out of it. They could use this to explain why ramming is usually not possible, but you don’t see these in the movies. 

 

They're definitely not in the movies but they have made appearances in the TV shows. Shouldn't be too much of a jump to bring them into the movies if they wanted to.

[number305]

3 hours ago, Jason said:

 

I've seen the suggestion that this is what Han is talking about when he talks about how many parsecs he can do the Kessel Run in--that there's probably a standard route that most people take, but that because he's such a great pilot that he can take a shorter but more difficult route.

I'm not sure if you are joking or if you never saw Solo... Where that was the whole plot. 

[Jason]

20 minutes ago, number305 said:

I'm not sure if you are joking or if you never saw Solo... Where that was the whole plot. 

 

I haven't seen Solo. I remember seeing the idea before the movie came out. 

[sexy_shapiro]

9 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

You're going to see that? Good luck with the nightmares it's gonna bring you... that movie looks creepy as hell 

 

Haha, it looks bonkers, right? But let me tell you, I’m way more interested in a movie that swings for the fences and miss wildly than a movie that is merely competent but doesn’t aim high or take risks. It’ll probably be a failure, but I love me an interesting failure, especially one on this scale with this amount of stylization.

 

Also, I have an interest in dance, and the choreography for this movie looks like it’s gonna be really good, so it has that going for it at least.

[Keyser_Soze]

11 hours ago, sblfilms said:

Not a chance. Due to firing the directors mid movie, it was the most expensive Star Wars movie to date at well over 300 million. P&A was another 200+ million. It didn’t even gross 400 million worldwide, of which Disney only keeps a little more than half.

 

Cost 275 million to make and it made 392 million worldwide. Sounds like a profit to me!

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Cost 275 million to make and it made 392 million worldwide. Sounds like a profit to me!

Math isn’t your strong suit, I suppose.

[Keyser_Soze]

37 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Math isn’t your strong suit, I suppose.

 

So we both agree with my statement, "It made money"

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

So we both agree with my statement, "It made money"

It lost money. Lots.

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/solo-will-post-first-loss-disneys-star-wars-empire-1116927

[Keyser_Soze]

4 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

It lost money. Lots.

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/solo-will-post-first-loss-disneys-star-wars-empire-1116927

 

[SaysWho?]

10 hours ago, sexy_shapiro said:

 

Haha, it looks bonkers, right? But let me tell you, I’m way more interested in a movie that swings for the fences and miss wildly than a movie that is merely competent but doesn’t aim high or take risks. It’ll probably be a failure, but I love me an interesting failure, especially one on this scale with this amount of stylization.

 

Also, I have an interest in dance, and the choreography for this movie looks like it’s gonna be really good, so it has that going for it at least.

 

Brah, if you're interested in dance, remind me to show you a waltz I just did to Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds.

[CitizenVectron]

2 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Brah, if you're interested in dance, remind me to show you a waltz I just did to Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds.

 

 

[Remarkableriots]

23 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

Didn't he do this in the extended universe that Star Wars nerds revere so much?

It was in the Dark Empire comic series.

[CitizenVectron]

Maybe Palpatine fell out of the Death Star II to the same place that Luke's lightsaber fell to out of Cloud City. Some magical place where things survive falls. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised (like poetry...) if Ben Solo asks him "how did you survive Vader throwing you into the reactor core?" and the Emperor answers "That is a tale for another time..." like Maz re: Luke's saber in VII.

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said:

Maybe Palpatine fell out of the Death Star II to the same place that Luke's lightsaber fell to out of Cloud City. Some magical place where things survive falls. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised (like poetry...) if Ben Solo asks him "how did you survive Vader throwing you into the reactor core?" and the Emperor answers "That is a tale for another time..." like Maz re: Luke's saber in VII.

 

I admit, this made me ROFL.