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OFFICIAL IAW IS FULL MITTENS FOR SAINT PETE BUTTIGIEG THREAD


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25 minutes ago, Scott said:

I don’t think liberal voters stay home on Election Day because the nominee isn’t sufficiently progressive. I think having a colossally unpopular nominee kept many people home. Beyond that, I think it’s good ole apathy and ignorance. 

 

People are dumb and easily manipulated by the media. I think it will help to have a candidate who doesn’t have easily nickname-able, tweetable scandals, like “Pocahontas!” 

 

Pete so far seems fairly scandal free, and offers something that can appeal to everyone (except maybe keyboard warrior Bernie stans). 

 

We can discuss how pro- or anti-corporate he is all day long, but ultimately what matters most, for now, is can he beat trump?

Mayor Peterpuffer. Think Trump, or his proxies, are above that? I don't. 

 

Pro corporate can't win, not in post industrial states. 

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6 hours ago, Jwheel86 said:

Mayor Peterpuffer. Think Trump, or his proxies, are above that? I don't. 

 

Pro corporate can't win, not in post industrial states. 

There is a zero percent chance Trump refers to Buttigieg as Mayor Peterpuffer. A trump supporter? Sure. But no way that becomes another Lyin’ Ted or Crooked Hillary. 

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And that was revolting and one of many, many things that should have disqualified him. But it was also a one off thing, one he even tried to (badly)deny later on. 

 

I don't think the man has a floor to how low he can go on a personal level, but I don't see that becoming a thing. Probably calls him that in private, though.

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On 4/12/2019 at 10:06 AM, Greatoneshere said:

I'm off the Mayor Pete train for now. Ana Kasparian did a great break down of some of his history and key policies and when I followed that up with my own research he is concerningly secretly a corporate centrist Democrat in a lot of ways. Maybe he's truly changed but now I feel like he's playing us. 

I always know who the good candidates are by listening to the Bernie and Warren supporters. 

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15 minutes ago, Massdriver said:

I always know who the good candidates are by listening to the Bernie and Warren supporters. 

 

Look, I'm fine with people not understanding why a person like me who has had every advantage in the world be pro-Sanders or pro-Warren. I know it doesn't seem to make sense. Every policy I'm for does not personally enrich myself or the tax bracket I'm in. But I'm telling you, if we want to help as many people as possible, and try to set up the future as best as possible, they are the way to go. It took a lot of research and time for me to be persuaded, because we are brainwashed to believe the current systemic and institutional functions of society work when they are instead broken. 

 

But then Donald Trump was elected president. He mocked a disabled reporter live on television and I saw it and I couldn't believe what I was seeing. You want the tranquilizing drug of gradualism? Be my guest, but I'm done playing patty cakes with the group that wants to cut off their own nose to spite their own face. People on this message board seem to think this is some kind of intellectual argument that takes place in our computers, but I assure you, it is happening around us and it is vicious. I know how badly some people think their self-interested politics of pro-upper class tax cuts and moderate change is worthwhile - middle ground always seems like reason. But, it's fine - we'll all learn together, and it will be painful, and we'll survive it or we won't. 

 

This is what the primary is about. Let's see what the people want. I've been disappointed so much at this point I'm just as hopeful something changes as I am okay with going down with the rest of the planet. 

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54 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

 I just don't think even he's that stupid.

 

I think he is. However, his campaign promise of "I could walk in times square and shoot someone and get away with it" seems to be standing so far. If anything he'll say it just to see if he could get away with it and I'm pretty sure he could.

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21 hours ago, Scott said:

People are dumb and easily manipulated by the media. I think it will help to have a candidate who doesn’t have easily nickname-able, tweetable scandals, like “Pocahontas!” 

 

I want to remind you that a black man named Barack Obama who was often accused of being a Muslim and born outside the US won the presidency twice.

 

I don't think *anyone* will be free of easily-tweetable "scandals" invented and blown out of proportion of the GOP. That's their strategy. They'll manage it for anyone. And I worry that they're succeeding in convincing even the left that such a unicorn candidate immune to that strategy exists, because that mean's we'll keep throwing away solid candidates and beat ourselves by infighting over whether a candidate can be immune enough.

 

I do think think we need to vote strategically, but I don't think worrying about a scandal as completely meaningless as the "Pocahontas" stuff is the right way to analyze the game.

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11 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Look, I'm fine with people not understanding why a person like me who has had every advantage in the world be pro-Sanders or pro-Warren. I know it doesn't seem to make sense. Every policy I'm for does not personally enrich myself or the tax bracket I'm in. But I'm telling you, if we want to help as many people as possible, and try to set up the future as best as possible, they are the way to go. It took a lot of research and time for me to be persuaded, because we are brainwashed to believe the current systemic and institutional functions of society work when they are instead broken. 

 

But then Donald Trump was elected president. He mocked a disabled reporter live on television and I saw it and I couldn't believe what I was seeing. You want the tranquilizing drug of gradualism? Be my guest, but I'm done playing patty cakes with the group that wants to cut off their own nose to spite their own face. People on this message board seem to think this is some kind of intellectual argument that takes place in our computers, but I assure you, it is happening around us and it is vicious. I know how badly some people think their self-interested politics of pro-upper class tax cuts and moderate change is worthwhile - middle ground always seems like reason. But, it's fine - we'll all learn together, and it will be painful, and we'll survive it or we won't. 

 

This is what the primary is about. Let's see what the people want. I've been disappointed so much at this point I'm just as hopeful something changes as I am okay with going down with the rest of the planet. 

You must have done some poor research if you concluded that restricting trade to poor countries would help as many people as possible. That's going to hurt the poor throughout the world. Bernie doesn’t care because he’s a nationalist underneath it all and so are many of you. 

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6 minutes ago, Massdriver said:

You must have done some poor research if you concluded that restricting trade to poor countries would help as many people as possible. That's going to hurt the poor throughout the world. Bernie doesn’t care because he’s a nationalist underneath it all and so are many of you. 

 

If you really think that's what Bernie Sanders would do as President, I'd say you're exaggerating what he'd actually do. Obviously I don't want to per se retrict trade to poor countries - and I don't think that's a policy Bernie would do as President beyond what's necessary.

 

I'm not a nationalist at all - I don't even believe in borders on a fundamental level, but understand why they exist. If you really think Bernie Sanders believes that, then you and I will have to agree to disagree because I don't see that. 

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2 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

If you really think that's what Bernie Sanders would do as President, I'd say you're exaggerating what he'd actually do. Obviously I don't want to per se retrict trade to poor countries - and I don't think that's a policy Bernie would do as President beyond what's necessary.

 

I'm not a nationalist at all - I don't even believe in borders on a fundamental level, but understand why they exist. If you really think Bernie Sanders believes that, then you and I will have to agree to disagree because I don't see that. 

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-statement-on-trump-tariffs

 

Sanders has also called the Trans-Pacific Partnership a "disastrous trade agreement" that "follows in the footsteps of other unfettered free trade agreements" that have "forced American workers to compete against desperate and low-wage labor around the world."

 

and here: https://progressive.org/dispatches/look-record-bernie-sanders-2011-denounces-free-trade-pacts/

 

He consistently opposes trade deals with poor countries even though trade has lifted millions of the global poor out of poverty. 

 

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1 hour ago, Massdriver said:

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-statement-on-trump-tariffs

 

Sanders has also called the Trans-Pacific Partnership a "disastrous trade agreement" that "follows in the footsteps of other unfettered free trade agreements" that have "forced American workers to compete against desperate and low-wage labor around the world."

 

and here: https://progressive.org/dispatches/look-record-bernie-sanders-2011-denounces-free-trade-pacts/

 

He consistently opposes trade deals with poor countries even though trade has lifted millions of the global poor out of poverty. 

 

 

He consistently opposed bad trade deals with other countries. I was actually happy when Trump ended TPP, one of the few good things he's done. I really, really doubt Bernie is against trading with poor countries. Being against bad trade deals is addressing how it is unfair in our favor, not somehow accidentally helpful to poorer countries, let's be real. But I agree with you, Bernie is against what you linked to. 

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13 minutes ago, Anathema- said:

Bernie does sound distressingly like a left nationalist authoritarian. I would still vote for him in a heartbeat over trump because he would at least be better constrained by our political system and not go out of his way to be cruel to people.

 

I see the validity in the argument but I honestly think a lot of that has been blown out of proportion by the media. If you actually watch the man in interviews and private moments, etc. he really listens to everyone he talks to and he's often very honest about the political process. No candidate is perfect and I have issues with Bernie but a nationalist authoritarian just isn't Bernie from what I've seen. I'd be shocked if he'd ever act like an authoritarian as President. Like you I'm voting for whoever is against Trump and I'd like for us all to be united in that ideal at least. :)

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2 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

He consistently opposed bad trade deals with other countries. I was actually happy when Trump ended TPP, one of the few good things he's done. I really, really doubt Bernie is against trading with poor countries. Being against bad trade deals is addressing how it is unfair in our favor, not somehow accidentally helpful to poorer countries, let's be real. But I agree with you, Bernie is against what you linked to. 

Tell yourself whatever you like, that the trade deals he opposes are ‘bad’. Sounds like Trump saying it’s a bad deal and believing him without evidence. NAFTA is bad, everything is bad. It’s bullshit. Economists disagree because the evidence shows trade is a net win for all the parties in general, but we need social spending to deal with any disruption it causes . Bernie is against any reasonable deal with poor countries because he thinks it hurts American workers. He doesn’t care about poor people throughout the world enough to help them. He is a nationalist.  Your statement that Bernie would help as many people as possible just isn’t true. 

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5 hours ago, Massdriver said:

Tell yourself whatever you like, that the trade deals he opposes are ‘bad’. Sounds like Trump saying it’s a bad deal and to believe him. NAFTA is bad, everything is bad. It’s bullshit. Economists disagree because the evidence shows trade is a net win for all the parties in general, but we need social spending to deal with any disruption it causes . Bernie is against any reasonable deal with poor countries because he thinks it hurts American workers. He doesn’t care about poor people throughout the world enough to help them. He is a nationalist.  Your statement that Bernie would help as many people as possible just isn’t true. 

 

I didn't say he was going to help as many people as possible - just that his authentic aim is to do so, and that's rare amongst those running alone. I'll be the first to admit that no candidate is perfect, but your breakdown of trade deals is incorrect. TPP was bad, NAFTA isn't. Why does it have to be all or nothing?

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1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I didn't say he was going to help as many people as possible - just that his authentic aim is to do so, and that's rare amongst those running alone. I'll be the first to admit that no candidate is perfect, but your breakdown of trade deals is incorrect. TPP was bad, NAFTA isn't. Why does it have to be all or nothing?

You said Bernie or Warren are the way to go if we want to help as many people as possible, not that they are sincere or authentic. I don’t doubt Bernie believes he’s doing the right thing. Being wrong on trade is a big deal though and he’s wrong. He can’t be the person to help people if he wants to restrict trade with other nations. 

 

Why is TPP bad and NAFTA isn’t? They’re both good overall. No trade agreement would ever be perfect. 

 

And Bernie disagrees on NAFTA . https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/recent-business/sanders-statement-on-nafta-replacement-

 

He thinks NAFTA is bad and the replacement is bad. He doesn’t believe in trading with poor countries. He never has and never will. He would hurt the global poor. 

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