Update: Biden administration's new "Remain in Mexico" policy is EVEN MORE restrictive than the Imbecile's

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, CayceG said:

The literal definition of genocide makes no distinction between extermination by death or forcible relocation. 

 

You are really stretching to make mass detention and deportation of non-citizens an example of genocide. I agree with your position that our current police is a moral failure.

 

9 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Right, but you directed your posts at @MarSolo for saying that people have died and are dying at these concentration camps. He wasn't saying anything in relation to your first point about Never Again'ing (unless I missed something) but you still called his take bad, hence our confusion.

 

Because he thinks somebody dying in a concentration camp makes it a death camp. It doesn’t. AOC as an example correctly distinguishes concentration camps (mass detention centers for civilians without trial) from the death camps (extermination centers). At the same time you have folks like her tweeting and retweeting “Never again” comments to obfuscate this distinction. Mars comes along and says “but people are dying in our camps” so as to again obfuscate the distinction between the two.

 

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Which is why Never Again isn't just about extermination camps. Just like the Holocaust wasn't just extermination camps. 

The Holocaust is explicitly about the mass murder of the Jews though, obviously not just in the extermination camps.

[TheGreatGamble]

2 hours ago, sblfilms said:

I don’t know what you’re talking about.

 

Doubling down on the bad take, I see.

Wth are you talking about. The only bad hot take is the shit you are spewing here.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, TheGreatGamble said:

Wth are you talking about. The only bad hot take is the shit you are spewing here.

Hi Apoc 

[Jason]

5 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

You are really stretching to make mass detention and deportation of non-citizens an example of genocide.

 

Forcible separation of children is a standard definition of genocide, no stretching required.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

 

Forcible separation of children is a standard definition of genocide, no stretching required.

No it isn’t. Separation during detention is not the same thing as transferring children from

one group to another. To give an example, for long periods of time part of the US policy of genocide against native people was by stealing native children and giving them to white families. This is what the “transferring children” issue is talking about. These family separations the Trump admin has ratcheted up, deplorable as they are, is not what is being discussed in regards to genocide.

[TheGreatGamble]

While I think most of @sblfilmstake is absolutely shite, so is @CayceG‘s “just let them in” argument. It’s ridiculous to want an open boarders policy. It won’t make America better, and will only cause more tensions within the country. Refugees, real refugees, should be left in, the right way. But I see no reason we should ever let illegals just walk in. I don’t think we should deport dreamers, but we certainly need to stem the tide of illegal immigration.

[legend]

14 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

At the same time you have folks like her tweeting and retweeting “Never again” comments to obfuscate this distinction. Mars comes along and says “but people are dying in our camps” so as to again obfuscate the distinction between the two.

 

"Never again" only refers to maximum Nazi death camp levels? Where was that established?

[TheGreatGamble]

13 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Hi Apoc 

I seriously don’t know who you guys think I am, and your take is still shit.

[Jason]

3 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

No it isn’t. Separation during detention is not the same thing as transferring children from

one group to another. To give an example, for long periods of time part of the US policy of genocide against native people was by stealing native children and giving them to white families. This is what the “transferring children” issue is talking about. These family separations the Trump admin has ratcheted up, deplorable as they are, is not what is being discussed in regards to genocide.

 

They say they're unable to track separated kids, they've lost tons of kids, and as far as anyone can tell this is intentional. You're the one engaging in absurd reaching here.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

They say they're unable to track separated kids, they've lost tons of kids, and as far as anyone can tell this is intentional. You're the one engaging in absurd reaching here.

You still aren’t describing what transferring children is in the context of the genocide definition. It means something very specific and what you’re describing isn’t it. The government mishandling detention and deportation of immigrant families is not the removal of children and placement with new families outside of their people group as a mean to destroy that people group. The government is attempting to send the minors back with their parents or other close relatives in their home country. 

 

8 minutes ago, TheGreatGamble said:

I seriously don’t know who you guys think I am, and your take is still shit.

Sure you don’t. I get that you were embarrassed by being outed, but it’s perfectly fine to just be who you are. I like you, gruff as you are  

[MarSolo]

I never said someone dying makes it a death camp, only that people are dying in these concentration camps. 

 

Mostly kids, which is even worse.

[Jason]

They're not just putting them with extended family members. jfc

[Greatoneshere]

42 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Because he thinks somebody dying in a concentration camp makes it a death camp. It doesn’t. AOC as an example correctly distinguishes concentration camps (mass detention centers for civilians without trial) from the death camps (extermination centers). At the same time you have folks like her tweeting and retweeting “Never again” comments to obfuscate this distinction. Mars comes along and says “but people are dying in our camps” so as to again obfuscate the distinction between the two.

 

 

Except . . .

 

10 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

I never said someone dying makes it a death camp, only that people are dying in these concentration camps. 

 

Mostly kids, which is even worse.

 

This.

 

He never said one makes it the other, just that people are dying in these internment/concentration camps. Which is true, and a fact. I got no sense of obfuscation, just an attempt to indicate how you were mitigating that factor in your own characterization.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Jason said:

They're not just putting them with extended family members. jfc

 

This is indeed what they attempt to do. They try and deport family units at the same time, when that does not occur the next step is to try and find close family to take custody of the children. I deal with undocumented people all the time, paying for lawyers and such, I’m intimately familiar with the process.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

I never said someone dying makes it a death camp, only that people are dying in these concentration camps. 

 

Mostly kids, which is even worse.

I misunderstood your post then, my apologies.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/deported-parents-may-lose-kids-adoption-investigation-finds-n918261

[CitizenVectron]

 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

3 hours ago, legend said:

 

"Never again" only refers to maximum Nazi death camp levels? Where was that established?

After all my reading over the years on the Holocaust, I'm trying to figure out that one, too. 

 

This has been an good read.

[CayceG]

So.

 

What do we do about it?

We've got concentration camps. The government is by and large okay with them. What are you and I to do about this atrocity?

[legend]

19 minutes ago, CayceG said:

So.

 

What do we do about it?

We've got concentration camps. The government is by and large okay with them. What are you and I to do about this atrocity?

 

 

(Probably more true than joke than I'd like it to be)

[Guest]

4 hours ago, legend said:

 

"Never again" only refers to maximum Nazi death camp levels? Where was that established?

Sorry, missed this earlier. “Never again” is the anti-Holocaust slogan, and the Holocaust is specifically referring to the extermination of the Jews. The Holocaust is generally said to occur between 1941-1945, while the persecution of Jews began well before that.

[legend]

13 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Sorry, missed this earlier. “Never again” is the anti-Holocaust slogan, and the Holocaust is specifically referring to the extermination of the Jews. The Holocaust is generally said to occur between 1941-1945, while the persecution of Jews began well before that.

 

Where is it established to be so specific though? I've often seen people referring to not allow the set of events to ever occur, which includes stopping the iterative "lesser" evils that  people let go because of "well it's wrong but..." You seem to be under the impression that it was well defined at some point to only mean the most extreme final outcomes rather than more and I'm wondering why you think that. That's not been my impression with how people use it.

[CayceG]

7 minutes ago, legend said:

 

Where is it established to be so specific though? I've often seen people referring to not allow the set of events to ever occur, which includes stopping the iterative "lesser" evils that  people let go because of "well it's wrong but..." You seem to be under the impression that it was well defined at some point to only mean the most extreme final outcomes rather than more and I'm wondering why you think that. That's not been my impression with how people use it.

 

You tried really hard not to, didn't you? 

[legend]

Just now, CayceG said:

 

You tried really hard not to, didn't you? 

 

 I honestly went with "outcome" naturally, but now I'm thinking I should have gone with the far more obvious.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

"Never again" may have started as a reference to the Shoah, but Elie Wiesel first adopted its use as a universal anti-genocide slogan with the US Holocaust Memorial Museum subsequently doing so as well.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

28 minutes ago, legend said:

 

Where is it established to be so specific though? I've often seen people referring to not allow the set of events to ever occur, which includes stopping the iterative "lesser" evils that  people let go because of "well it's wrong but..." You seem to be under the impression that it was well defined at some point to only mean the most extreme final outcomes rather than more and I'm wondering why you think that. That's not been my impression with how people use it.

That's because it's really not. Of course, people think of Auschwitz and Zyklon B first, but it encompasses the whole persecution of the Jews, because without the initial steps taken, the slow dehumanizing of them, the latter wouldn't have happened. 

[MarSolo]

6 hours ago, sblfilms said:

I misunderstood your post then, my apologies.

 

YOU'RE NOT FORGIVEN AND YOUR MISUNDERSTANDING OF MY POST CAUSED ME GREAT STRESS.

 

Wait.

 

*deep breath*

 

Nah, you're cool.

 

*awkward high five*

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

[Jason]

5 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

 

Godwin's Law doesn't even say making a Hitler/Nazi comparison means you lose, it only says that it's inevitable that someone will do it.

[Jason]

28 minutes ago, Jason said:

Godwin's Law doesn't even say making a Hitler/Nazi comparison means you lose, it only says that it's inevitable that someone will do it.

 

[RedSoxFan9]

 

☢️☢️☢️ 

[Jason]

 

[Ghost_MH]

 

[Remarkableriots]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trump-administration-argues-detained-migrant-children-dont-need-toothbrushes-soap/ar-AADbenO?li=BBnbcA1&srcref=rss&OCID=AMZN

Quote

The Trump administration went to court this week to argue that migrant children detained at the United States-Mexico border do not require basic hygiene products like soap and toothbrushes in order to be in held in "safe and sanitary" conditions. Trump's team also argued that requiring minors to sleep on cold concrete floors in crowded cells with low temperatures similarly fulfilled that requirement.

 

[RedSoxFan9]