Update: Biden administration's new "Remain in Mexico" policy is EVEN MORE restrictive than the Imbecile's

[CayceG]

14 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

“Never again” isn’t about concentration camps generically. 

 

Yes it absolutely fucking is. This is a step along the way. Never Again means that this should not have allowed to get to this point, nor should it be allowed to progress. 

 

 

There's no line between now and rounding up brown people to exterminate them that we can point to to make people with takes like yours happy. This is not something that has a moderate solution. The solution is to end the camps, end the capture and internment (concentration) of these people, and to cleanse the executive of the forces that are allowing this policy to continue.

[Jason]

The only people trying to make this about extermination camps are the shrieking Republicans she mentioned. And sbl, apparently.

[Remarkableriots]

3 minutes ago, CayceG said:

 

Yes it absolutely fucking is. This is a step along the way. Never Again means that this should not have allowed to get to this point, nor should it be allowed to progress. 

 

 

There's no line between now and rounding up brown people to exterminate them that we can point to to make people with takes like yours happy. This is not something that has a moderate solution. The solution is to end the camps, end the capture and internment (concentration) of these people, and to cleanse the executive of the forces that are allowing this policy to continue.

So what should we do with these people?

[Jason]

18 minutes ago, CayceG said:

Yes it absolutely fucking is. This is a step along the way. Never Again means that this should not have allowed to get to this point, nor should it be allowed to progress. 

 

The Nazis didn't start with extermination camps but it doesn't count until we're giving people Zyklon B showers, obviously, and even then it won't count because the showerheads will have come from a different factory.

 

 

[CayceG]

3 minutes ago, Remarkableriots said:

So what should we do with these people?

 

Let em the fuck in. Ellis Islands all across the border. Process them there. Change the mission of border patrol from rounding them up to doing paperwork to get these people green cards. Then leave them the fuck alone. 

[Jason]

Yes, your ancestors probably did come here legally — because 'illegal' immigration is less than a century old

[Guest]

@CayceG

 

As for your idea about what to do with the immigrants, DHS wants to bring in immigration judges and create processing centers at the border to speed up the process, but the house and senate won’t agree to fund that proposal.

[CayceG]

4 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

@CayceG

 

As for your idea about what to do with the immigrants, DHS wants to bring in immigration judges and create processing centers at the border to speed up the process, but the house and senate won’t agree to fund that proposal.

 

That's because DHS wants to maintain the concentration camps and the deportations. You can't accept that as a bargaining chip to get a part of what you want. 

 

The administration has a policy - reducing the number of brown people in this country. Putting more judges on the border won't matter if they are selected to deny entry through "due process."

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, CayceG said:

 

That's because DHS wants to maintain the concentration camps and the deportations. You can't accept that as a bargaining chip to get a part of what you want. 

 

The administration has a policy - reducing the number of brown people in this country. Putting more judges on the border won't matter if they are selected to deny entry through "due process."

I just re-read your post, sorry, didn’t understand you just want open border policy. Gotcha.

[CayceG]

1 minute ago, sblfilms said:

I just re-read your post, sorry, didn’t understand you just want open border policy. Gotcha.

 

If you want to call it that, sure. 

 

We're a globalized nation. We should act like it. 

[MarSolo]

So you’re denying people have died in these camps? I mean, I’m sure if you go back in this thread there are links to articles stating exactly that.

[Jason]

12 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

I just re-read your post, sorry, didn’t understand you just want open border policy. Gotcha.

 

Because this administration clearly ONLY wants to reduce illegal crossings, right?

[CitizenVectron]

43 minutes ago, Remarkableriots said:

So what should we do with these people?

 

Release them, and let in anyone else who wants to come, provided they can pass background checks. So try to keep out criminals, etc, but let anyone else in. Immigration is a net benefit, and stats show that immigrants (even illegal immigrants) are harder working and less-dangerous than native-born Americans.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, CayceG said:

 

If you want to call it that, sure. 

 

We're a globalized nation. We should act like it. 

 

What western nations have a policy like what you described? You can’t just walk in to Canada looking for work and get a green card.

[Jason]

[Jason]

Canada isn't easy to get into, but it's actually on merit, instead of your options being either buying your way in, having family to sponsor you, or waiting for ages to get in.

[CitizenVectron]

5 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

 

What western nations have a policy like what you described? You can’t just walk in to Canada looking for work and get a green card.

 

As someone from Canada, I would support the loosening of immigration requirements. And if you want an example, the best is the United States from formation until the 1900s, when it grew hugely in population and power.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

As someone from Canada, I would support the loosening of immigration requirements. And if you want an example, the best is the United States from formation until the 1900s, when it grew hugely in population and power.

 

14 minutes ago, Jason said:

Canada isn't easy to get into, but it's actually on merit, instead of your options being either buying your way in, having family to sponsor you, or waiting for ages to get in.

 

While fair points in their own right, these things don’t address @CayceGclaim that America not having a policy similar to what he described is our nation not acting like a globalized nation.

 

His post naturally raises the question: What nations have similar policies to those he suggested for the US to adopt to make a nation act like their are globalized?

[CitizenVectron]

6 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

 

 

While fair points in their own right, these things don’t address @CayceGclaim that America not having a policy similar to what he described is our nation not acting like a globalized nation.

 

His post naturally raises the question: What nations have similar policies to those he suggested for the US to adopt to make a nation act like their are globalized?

 

While other western nations may not have as open a policy as he supports, I would argue that many have much more open policies than the US, which would be a step in the direction that he wants. At the very least, other western nations don't separate children and parents and lock them in detention/concentration camps.

[CayceG]

11 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

 

 

While fair points in their own right, these things don’t address @CayceGclaim that America not having a policy similar to what he described is our nation not acting like a globalized nation.

 

His post naturally raises the question: What nations have similar policies to those he suggested for the US to adopt to make a nation act like their are globalized?

 

My point right now is not to advocate for open borders due to economic concerns. 

 

My point is that the existence of concentration camps and the policies of the executive branch that created them should be ended. 

 

 

We don't need another country to model something after, as you suggest. Also, most other countries don't have a proximity to refugee flows like we do. Europe does, but their countries are really fucking things up too. 

End the concentration camps. Abolish ICE. 

 

 

A sound policy is needed as a second step. But we don't need one ready to go to end this policy of internment, separation, and cruelty. Saying we do, or hinting that there has to be a solution ready to go is diminishing the seriousness of the existing policy.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, CayceG said:

We don't need another country to model something after, as you suggest. Also, most other countries don't have a proximity to refugee flows like we do. Europe does, but their countries are really fucking things up too. 

End the concentration camps. Abolish ICE. 

 

We do need another country as a model when you suggest that your policy ideals are what make a nation act like they globalized.

 

I am wholly in favor of open border policy, but I’m not afraid to hold unpopular opinions

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, MarSolo said:

So you’re denying people have died in these camps? I mean, I’m sure if you go back in this thread there are links to articles stating exactly that.

 

I think what he was saying is that not nearly enough have died in our concentration camps to be able to invoke any comparisons to Hitler's (ultimately) death camps. and so saying "concentration camps" is a bad take. I think. I'm pretty much on the opposite side of the issue with him on this one.  

[CayceG]

29 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

 

We do need another country as a model when you suggest that your policy ideals are what make a nation act like they globalized.

 

I am wholly in favor of open border policy, but I’m not afraid to hold unpopular opinions

 

You're mischaracterizing my argument. I'm not saying this should be changed because of globalization. I'm saying it should be changed because what we're doing is morally reprehensible. 

[Jason]

5 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I think what he was saying is that not nearly enough have died in our concentration camps to be able to invoke any comparisons to Hitler's (ultimately) death camps. and so saying "concentration camps" is a bad take. I think. I'm pretty much on the opposite side of the issue with him on this one.  

 

It doesn't become an extermination camp just because someone died. 

[Greatoneshere]

4 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

It doesn't become an extermination camp just because someone died. 

 

Apparently. 

 

The stupid part is that 80% of undocumented immigrants are due to airplane visa overstays, not people playing Red Light, Green Light over the fucking border. These camps aren't even effective at stopping the problem if that's all you cared about. I don't see people grabbing their guns and trying to solve that problem do we? Probably because this is all motivated by stupidity and racism, not fixing any sort of immigration crisis.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I think what he was saying is that not nearly enough have died in our concentration camps to be able to invoke any comparisons to Hitler's (ultimately) death camps. and so saying "concentration camps" is a bad take. I think. I'm pretty much on the opposite side of the issue with him on this one.  

No, no. I said the “never again”ing that people are doing is what they are doing to invoke the Nazi death camps while simultaneously saying “concentration camps and death camps aren’t the same thing, dummies.”

 

They are eating their cake and having it too

 

3 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

It doesn't become an extermination camp just because someone died. 

The genocide part is specifically what distinguishes concentration camps from death camps. 

[CayceG]

1 minute ago, sblfilms said:

No, no. I said the “never again”ing that people are doing is what they are doing to invoke the Nazi death camps while simultaneously saying “concentration camps and death camps aren’t the same thing, dummies.”

 

They are eating their cake and having it too

 

The genocide part is specifically what distinguishes concentration camps from death camps. 

 

 

What. Is the mother. Fucking. Difference?

 

This is being done to ONE segment of society literally on the basis of race and national origin. If you want to split hairs, we're taking latinos coming into the country, and already in the country, rounding them up, separating them from their children, housing them in camps away from society, denying them healthcare, and ultimately removing this population from the country. 

 

If we want to name things the way you want us to, that's genocide. 

[Jason]

5 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

The genocide part is specifically what distinguishes concentration camps from death camps. 

 

What the fuck is your point? People died in Nazi concentration camps before they got into full-on extermination camps. People dying in and of itself doesn't make it an extermination camp, wheeling them in and immediately killing them is what makes it an extermination camp. But, obviously, locking people up and not giving a shit if they get sick and die is still extremely bad.

 

Why the fuck are we even arguing about this stupid rightwing semantics game, again?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, CayceG said:

 

 

What. Is the mother. Fucking. Difference?

 

This is being done to ONE segment of society literally on the basis of race and national origin. If you want to split hairs, we're taking latinos coming into the country, and already in the country, rounding them up, separating them from their children, housing them in camps away from society, denying them healthcare, and ultimately removing this population from the country. 

 

If we want to name things the way you want us to, that's genocide. 

 

What is the difference between deporting people and murdering them? Is that your actual take?

 

4 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

What the fuck is your point? People died in Nazi concentration camps before they got into full-on extermination camps. People dying in and of itself doesn't make it an extermination camp, wheeling them in and immediately killing them is what makes it an extermination camp. But, obviously, locking people up and not giving a shit if they get sick and die is still extremely bad.

 

Why the fuck are we even arguing about this stupid rightwing semantics game, again?

You seem to agree with the distinction. My initial post was in regards to those who are making the distinction as a defense to criticism while simultaneously “never again”ing which is intended to invoke the death camps.

 

As I said above, it’s a situation of eating their cake and having it too.  

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

The Stephen Miller's of the world have decided this is how we will be dealing with climate refugees. He's trying to move the genocidal overton window

[CayceG]

Just now, sblfilms said:

 

What is the difference between deporting people and murdering them? Is that your actual take?

 

You seem to agree with the distinction. My initial post was in regards to those who are making the distinction as a defense to criticism while simultaneously “never again”ing which is intended to invoke the death camps.

 

As I said above, it’s a situation of eating their cake and having it too.  

 

The literal definition of genocide makes no distinction between extermination by death or forcible relocation. 

 

 

Your problem is with how arguments are being made. My suggestion is to think about why you have that problem and whether that matters more than the reality outside your pedantic ivory tower of argumentative consistency. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Just now, CayceG said:

 

The literal definition of genocide makes no distinction between extermination by death or forcible relocation. 

 

 

Your problem is with how arguments are being made. My suggestion is to think about why you have that problem and whether that matters more than the reality outside your pedantic ivory tower of argumentative consistency. 

The native American genocide of the trail of tears is a nice example here

[Greatoneshere]

27 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

No, no. I said the “never again”ing that people are doing is what they are doing to invoke the Nazi death camps while simultaneously saying “concentration camps and death camps aren’t the same thing, dummies.”

 

They are eating their cake and having it too

 

Right, but you directed your posts at @MarSolo for saying that people have indeed died and are dying at these concentration camps. He wasn't saying anything in relation to your first point about Never Again'ing (unless I missed something) but you still called his take bad, hence our confusion.

[Jason]

15 minutes ago, CayceG said:

The literal definition of genocide makes no distinction between extermination by death or forcible relocation. 

 

 

Which is why Never Again isn't just about extermination camps. Just like the Holocaust wasn't just extermination camps. 

[Jason]

9 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Right, but you directed your posts at @MarSolo for saying that people have indeed died and are dying at these concentration camps. He wasn't saying anything in relation to your first point about Never Again'ing (unless I missed something) but you still called his take bad, hence our confusion.

 

Remember how salty he got about Fright pointing out his habit of getting condescending about people not understanding his vague, confusing arguments?