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New Zealand police respond to 'active shooter' situation in Christchurch


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6 hours ago, TheGreatGamble said:

Most of that is worthless. I don’t have guns solely for the purpose of self defence.  And yes, I like guns. Like target shooting, hunting, I never once bought a gun with the intention of shooting a person. 

 

My my son is 12, he can finally hunt big game here. I also love spending time with him outdoors. Hunting, fishing and camping. It’s an important part of my states culture, my towns traditions, and my families best memories.

 

Lmao, at risk of sounding like a typical libtard elitist who cares not for the common man, doesn't the fact that this guy literally wants to give death weapons to middle school-aged children kinda say enough about his critical thinking skills and how forward thinking his views on this topic are?

 

 

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9 minutes ago, fuckle85 said:

 

Lmao, at risk of sounding like a typical libtard elitist who cares not for the common man, doesn't the fact that this guy literally wants to give death weapons to middle school-aged children kinda say enough about his critical thinking skills and how forward thinking his views on this topic are?

 

 

Erm, not that I'm defending his views, because some of them definitely suck, but it's not uncommon to take your kid hunting. I was shooting my dad's 22mag at age 6. I was deer hunting not long after that. 

 

Most parents who are dedicated hunters themselves are well educated on gun safety and teach their kids. It's a tradition, a right of passage. It's not that scary. They don't just give a kid a gun and turn them loose. Hunter education classes start when you're 12, if I recall. I remember taking one around that age. 

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1 hour ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Erm, not that I'm defending his views, because some of them definitely suck, but it's not uncommon to take your kid hunting. I was shooting my dad's 22mag at age 6. I was deer hunting not long after that. 

 

Most parents who are dedicated hunters themselves are well educated on gun safety and teach their kids. It's a tradition, a right of passage. It's not that scary. They don't just give a kid a gun and turn them loose. 

 

Well even though you've become more forward thinking than your folks and I feel for you not having control over participating in some of the traditions where you grew up before going on to better yourself.... ignoring children for a sec, there's obviously more than enough examples of teens and adults alone using guns against other humans intentionally as well as simply lacking competency at being careful/responsible w/ them that the idea of wanting to hand death weapons over to people who's emotions, personalities, physiological control and understandings of life are far from developed is kind of insane, don't you think?  Some traditions are common but that doesn't make them any less absurd, wouldn't you say?

 

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5 minutes ago, fuckle85 said:

 

Well even though you've become more forward thinking than your folks and I feel for you not having control over participating in some of the silly traditions where you grew up before going on to better yourself.... ignoring children for a sec, there's obviously more than enough examples of teens and adults alone using guns against other humans intentionally as well as simply lacking competency at being careful/responsible w/ them that the idea of wanting to hand death weapons over to people who's emotions, personalities, physiological control and understandings of life are far from developed is kind of insane, don't you think?  Some traditions are common but that doesn't make them any less absurd, wouldn't you say?

 

I still hunt. I go every year with my parents and my father-in-law. I own guns. If I chose to have kids(I don't want kids at all) I'd take them hunting and teach them if they had interest. 

 

There's nothing crazy about taking your kids hunting. It's often a fantastic family experience. Like I said, these parents aren't just handing a kid a weapon and turning them loose with them. Younger kids are supervised, typically. Hunter education classes are required. 

 

For the record, since you're new and don't know me, I'm not a gun nut. My guns are primarily for hunting. I don't own any assault weapons and I have no desire to. I've long advocated for stricter gun control for the US as I think our laws are far too lax. I have never given a cent to the NRA and I despise what they've become. 

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2 hours ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

I still hunt. I go every year with my parents and my father-in-law. I own guns. If I chose to have kids(I don't want kids at all) I'd take them hunting and teach them if they had interest. 

 

There's nothing crazy about taking your kids hunting. It's often a fantastic family experience. Like I said, these parents aren't just handing a kid a weapon and turning them loose with them. Younger kids are supervised, typically. 

 

For the record, since you're new and don't know me, I'm not a gun nut. My guns are primarily for hunting. I don't own any assault weapons and I have no desire to. I've long advocated for stricter gun control for the US as I think our laws are far too lax. I have never given a cent to the NRA and I despise what they've become. 

 

I've posted here for a while, just not under this username.

 

Nobody's calling you a gun nut, relax buddy.  And as someone who's also fond nature and animals, I get how there's an understandable appeal of venturing into the natural world, taking in the wonder of it and the beautiful, majestic wildlife (and, in your case, putting some bullets in them), and that in the bigger picture hunting can be more ethical than getting your protein from places like mcdonalds.  

 

As an individual, you and fam might be responsible gun owners, sure, but I think it's odd that I made such a precise argument for why literally putting boomsticks in the hands of children - humans who severely lack the emotional, mental, and physiological maturity to not allow for something to go wrong - is just not a very smart action, tradition or not, supervised or not.  Even if the parent is holding and aiming the firearm and only allowing the child to pull the trigger, I have to be bluntly honest and say it's just kinda weird to me considering how many things can still go wrong and that I find nothing appealing at all about guns or shooting them. 

 

But imo this disagreement shouldn't need to go much further than that because a) even though my stance and reasoning for it is pretty solid, I have no interest in judging how responsible of a gun owner you are or aren't and b) it would probably end up morphing into a debate about gun control in America, which imo is ultimately not the most productive argument to have unless it's with an actual nut to convince them of never owning guns, since the possibility of there being much success in decreasing gun violence via limiting the circulation of firearms/preventing them from getting into the wrong hands clearly seems unlikely at this point.   Best case scenario is probably passing stricter gun laws and over time hope for the best.  Anywho, happy shooting.

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50 minutes ago, fuckle85 said:

 

I've posted here for a while, just not under this username.

 

Nobody's calling you a gun nut, relax buddy.  And as someone who's also fond nature and animals, I get how there's an understandable appeal of venturing into the natural world, taking in the wonder of it and the beautiful, majestic wildlife (and, in your case, putting some bullets in them), and that in the bigger picture hunting can be more ethical than getting your protein from places like mcdonalds.  

 

As an individual, you and fam might be responsible gun owners, sure, but I think it's odd that I made such a precise argument for why literally putting boomsticks in the hands of children - humans who severely lack the emotional, mental, and physiological maturity to not allow for something to go wrong - is just not a very smart action, tradition or not, supervised or not.  Even if the parent is holding and aiming the firearm and only allowing the child to pull the trigger, I have to be bluntly honest and say it's just kinda weird to me considering how many things can still go wrong and that I find nothing appealing at all about guns or shooting them. 

 

But imo this disagreement shouldn't need to go much further than that because a) even though my stance and reasoning for it is pretty solid, I have no interest in judging how responsible of a gun owner you are or aren't and b) it would probably end up morphing into a debate about gun control in America, which imo is ultimately not the most productive argument to have unless it's with an actual nut to convince them of never owning guns, since the possibility of there being much success in decreasing gun violence via limiting the circulation of firearms/preventing them from getting into the wrong hands clearly seems unlikely at this point.   Best case scenario is probably passing stricter gun laws and over time hope for the best.  Anywho, happy shooting.

Dude, half this thread has been an argument about gun control. :p I don't really care to argue it, either, since I find it unproductive and if you are a regular user under a new account, then you probably know my thoughts anyway. 

 

Kids shooting guns under supervision really isn't that big a deal. Maybe you just grew up differently, where guns are foreign to you, but for a ton of people in America it's not weird or scary at all. And if you practice proper gun safety, there really isn't "a ton of things that could go wrong". Guns are pretty simple and straightforward. If you know what you're doing and stick to the rules, you're fine. 

 

You don't get it, that's fine. But it's not as crazy or frightening as you portray it. :p 

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2 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Its definitely @gfxtwin. He posts exactly like him. Also I called him out in another thread and he never replied.

I mean, we both talk about dinosaurs sometimes? lmao. I guess gfxtwin has a monopoly on paleontology talk on this board, eh? Well exqueeze me. :talkhand:

 

 

 

2 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

I wanna know who fuckle was, but if it's a privacy thing, no biggie. I don't have to know shit. :p 

 

New Zealand's PM will not utter his name.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Bacon said:

:isee:

Ok, secrets starting to leak, so I'll just say it. Biggie is in fact another account of mine, or was.  The truth is that Biggie is a constructed AI algorithm which I designed for the purpose of automatically generating exceptionally compassionate and insightful replies to everyone here when I couldn't think of any.  He was to be loosely based on the combined perspectives of Paul McCartney, Stephen Hawking, Barack Obama, Marie Curie and for some spice, a tiny smidge of Archie Bunker to help add more flaws for relatability and tone down some of the uncanny valley effect that would occur if someone with similar intellectual and emotional alignments as theirs posted on a gaming board.  In retrospect there seems to have been a miscalculation.  Complicating matters further, at some point the biggie account changed its password on its own to prevent me from making any adjustments.  However, there's a chance that some of the biggietron300 AI's self-learning programming could still be active and function properly, maybe even better than intended. It's possible biggie may one day be posting the most enlightened replies on D1P, if not all of the internet. 

 

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8 hours ago, fuckle85 said:

 

I've posted here for a while, just not under this username.

 

Nobody's calling you a gun nut, relax buddy.  And as someone who's also fond nature and animals, I get how there's an understandable appeal of venturing into the natural world, taking in the wonder of it and the beautiful, majestic wildlife (and, in your case, putting some bullets in them), and that in the bigger picture hunting can be more ethical than getting your protein from places like mcdonalds.  

 

As an individual, you and fam might be responsible gun owners, sure, but I think it's odd that I made such a precise argument for why literally putting boomsticks in the hands of children - humans who severely lack the emotional, mental, and physiological maturity to not allow for something to go wrong - is just not a very smart action, tradition or not, supervised or not.  Even if the parent is holding and aiming the firearm and only allowing the child to pull the trigger, I have to be bluntly honest and say it's just kinda weird to me considering how many things can still go wrong and that I find nothing appealing at all about guns or shooting them. 

 

But imo this disagreement shouldn't need to go much further than that because a) even though my stance and reasoning for it is pretty solid, I have no interest in judging how responsible of a gun owner you are or aren't and b) it would probably end up morphing into a debate about gun control in America, which imo is ultimately not the most productive argument to have unless it's with an actual nut to convince them of never owning guns, since the possibility of there being much success in decreasing gun violence via limiting the circulation of firearms/preventing them from getting into the wrong hands clearly seems unlikely at this point.   Best case scenario is probably passing stricter gun laws and over time hope for the best.  Anywho, happy shooting.

You are wrong. Teaching kids responsible gun ownership and hunting skills is one of the best things you can teach them. My son has been target shooting for 5 years. He can bugle for elk, he can shoot effectively, ride horse, he loves the outdoors. Why would any of that be bad? Why is a 400 year old tradition suddenly bad? It’s not.

 

how many shootings do you see by children of hunters, or hunters themselves? Hardly any, they all happen in cities. It’s not country kids hunting who are killing people. It’s the depressed, angry, city kids struggling to live in these ridiculous environments we’ve created that are shooting people, purposely and accidentally. 

 

My son knows he can’t use a gun without me. So what are all these horrible things that could happen? Name one? He has a great time and brings home elk? Maybe a sheep or mulie? You are saying all these things can go wrong, but there isn’t.

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18 hours ago, TheGreatGamble said:

Except that not one of these people who are giving up their guns were going to commit a gun crime anyway, so it’s a useless gesture.

 

The problem is mental health and illegal weapons in the hands of criminals. My AR-15 is no more threat to you than my bolt action rifles are. 

 

FFS, I’m glad we have a 2nd, so every tragedy can’t be used as a political tool to disarm law abiding citizens. 

 

Lets enforce proper storage, and allow psychiatric doctors to suspend gun rights of the mentally ill. Let’s prosecute owners who don’t store their weapons in a way their children can’t get at them. Let’s improve background checks.

 

Those things work. But taking the guns of law abiding citizens will change nothing.

As a former gun owner myself, I have to ask this though and I'm not being snarky in any way, there's enough of that going on in this thread:

 

Who are you protecting yourself from with that AR-15 as a law abiding citizen? A potential government take-over? Home intruders? The way I see it is that I can't fathom a situation where I would need that variety of gun in a civilized society. If the fear is things becoming not civilized, I'm not standing my ground in my home against a government militia with the aid of this tool. If the government, which I don't trust worth a shit either, decides to "come get me", I'm done, end of story. If it's a home intruder/criminal, does a 12 gauge not do the job? 

 

I don't know anything about hunting but the little I know from my coworkers, many of whom hunt in Upstate NY, I've never heard of something like an AR-15 being used for that purpose? You might've answered that further down the line and I didn't read it but my general question is simply just that, why something as extreme as an AR-15 is necessary when it's been shown to be so easily turned against crowds of people by The Artist Formerly Known As Law Abiding Citizen? There's obviously a clear correlation with America's everything-goes approach to gun and gun culture and its utterly fucking insane gun violence figures. I know you're saying to suspend gun rights of the mentally ill and so on but I mean you have to know that's ultimately just a band aid. 

 

There needs to be a middle ground here, it can't be proponents of guns calling all the shots (no pun intended) because it's their hobby and everyone else is left standing with their proverbial dicks in their hands just because of the 2nd amendment when faced with seemingly never-ending mass shootings. I just can't see how anyone can deny that gun laws absolutely can't remain this Wild West anything-goes it is in many States. I just think the idea of good guy vs. bad guy in the gun debate is incredibly archaic and John Wayne-ish and while I totally understand the need for a heavier gun presence in States like, for example, Wyoming or something compared to NYC, society has, and continues to, move away from old school Americana-isms and this just doesn't make that much sense anymore for me as an outsider looking in. 

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13 minutes ago, TheGreatGamble said:

You are wrong. Teaching kids responsible gun ownership and hunting skills is one of the best things you can teach them. My son has been target shooting for 5 years. He can bugle for elk, he can shoot effectively, ride horse, he loves the outdoors. Why would any of that be bad? Why is a 400 year old tradition suddenly bad? It’s not.

 

how many shootings do you see by children of hunters, or hunters themselves? Hardly any, they all happen in cities. It’s not country kids hunting who are killing people. It’s the depressed, angry, city kids struggling to live in these ridiculous environments we’ve created that are shooting people, purposely and accidentally. 

 

My son knows he can’t use a gun without me. So what are all these horrible things that could happen? Name one? He has a great time and brings home elk? Maybe a sheep or mulie? You are saying all these things can go wrong, but there isn’t.

 

Killing animals for entertainment is a moral failing.

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3 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

 

Killing animals for entertainment is a moral failing.

 

You could apply the same logic to eating meat.

 

I also find hunting to be a pretty loathsome hobby, and I eat meat... but I don't pretend that I'm not pointlessly causing the suffering of animals for my pleasure. That's what I do every time any of us eat meat.

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3 minutes ago, ort said:

 

You could apply the same logic to eating meat.

 

I also find hunting to be a pretty loathsome hobby, and I eat meat... but I don't pretend that I'm not pointlessly causing the suffering of animals for my pleasure. That's what I do every time any of us eat meat.

 

Nourishment isn’t pointless. And hunting isn’t pointless either, it is taking enjoyment at the act of killing an animal. You could raise Elk and humanely kill them if your goal was nourishment.

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I know this is complicated and nuanced.

 

All I'm saying is that someone deriving pleasure from shooting a deer isn't all that different from someone deriving pleasure from eating a chicken. Both animals died to make your life a little more enjoyable.

 

You can get all the nourishment you need without killing any animals. It's easier than ever.

 

Like I said earlier, I do eat meat, so I'm not being preachy... just acknowledging that there is a little bit of hypocrisy in this thinking. I share in this hypocracy.

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30 minutes ago, ort said:

I know this is complicated and nuanced.

 

All I'm saying is that someone deriving pleasure from shooting a deer isn't all that different from someone deriving pleasure from eating a chicken. Both animals died to make your life a little more enjoyable.

 

You can get all the nourishment you need without killing any animals. It's easier than ever.

 

Like I said earlier, I do eat meat, so I'm not being preachy... just acknowledging that there is a little bit of hypocrisy in this thinking. I share in this hypocracy.

It’s not hypocritical at all, you have to be intentionally reductive to make the comparison work in the slightest :p 

 

Somebody certainly could be carnivorous in the same way that a hunter going sport shooting is having a moral failure, but it isn’t a guarantee.

 

There are legitimately non problematic reasons for hunting, primarily population control issues that affect the overall balance of life forms in an area.

 

Sport hunting is the specific issue I’m talking about. There is no redeeming qualities to it.

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42 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

As a former gun owner myself, I have to ask this though and I'm not being snarky in any way, there's enough of that going on in this thread:

 

Who are you protecting yourself from with that AR-15 as a law abiding citizen? A potential government take-over? Home intruders? The way I see it is that I can't fathom a situation where I would need that variety of gun in a civilized society. If the fear is things becoming not civilized, I'm not standing my ground in my home against a government militia with the aid of this tool. If the government, which I don't trust worth a shit either, decides to "come get me", I'm done, end of story. If it's a home intruder/criminal, does a 12 gauge not do the job? 

 

I don't know anything about hunting but the little I know from my coworkers, many of whom hunt in Upstate NY, I've never heard of something like an AR-15 being used for that purpose? You might've answered that further down the line and I didn't read it but my general question is simply just that, why something as extreme as an AR-15 is necessary when it's been shown to be so easily turned against crowds of people by The Artist Formerly Known As Law Abiding Citizen? There's obviously a clear correlation with America's everything-goes approach to gun and gun culture and its utterly fucking insane gun violence figures. I know you're saying to suspend gun rights of the mentally ill and so on but I mean you have to know that's ultimately just a band aid. 

 

There needs to be a middle ground here, it can't be proponents of guns calling all the shots (no pun intended) because it's their hobby and everyone else is left standing with their proverbial dicks in their hands just because of the 2nd amendment when faced with seemingly never-ending mass shootings. I just can't see how anyone can deny that gun laws absolutely can't remain this Wild West anything-goes it is in many States. I just think the idea of good guy vs. bad guy in the gun debate is incredibly archaic and John Wayne-ish and while I totally understand the need for a heavier gun presence in States like, for example, Wyoming or something compared to NYC, society has, and continues to, move away from old school Americana-isms and this just doesn't make that much sense anymore for me as an outsider looking in. 

I’m not protecting myself with an AR. I use it mostly for target shooting, wolf, and coyote.

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Just now, TheGreatGamble said:

We don’t kill them for sport, but no, there is no moral failing in hunting. That’s a ridiculous and wrong headed view of hunting by someone who doesn’t understand it.

 

Sport hunting is a moral failure. It serves no purpose but to tickle the more barbaric parts of our brains and is at the expense of helpless animals.

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40 minutes ago, ort said:

 

You could apply the same logic to eating meat.

 

I also find hunting to be a pretty loathsome hobby, and I eat meat... but I don't pretend that I'm not pointlessly causing the suffering of animals for my pleasure. That's what I do every time any of us eat meat.

Buying meat causes far more suffering than hunting, so I’m not sure how you can loathe hunting but be fine with buying meat.

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