General Gaming Report: Sony in "advanced talks" to acquire Take-Two Interactive (2K, Rockstar, etc.)

[SaysWho?]

34 minutes ago, GameDadGrant said:

Since Playstation’s biggest strength (only strength?) is its third-party partnerships

 

You are so weird sometimes.  

[Keyser_Soze]

Well civilization is on switch.

NBA 2k probably is, @doncic would be devastated if he couldn’t play that game.

 

[GameDadGrant]

1 hour ago, SaysWho? said:

 

You are so weird sometimes.  

Wha...only sometimes!?! 

 

Well, I mean...what is Playstation's greatest strength, if not it's third party relationships? It's not hardware, since Playstation is neither the most powerful out there nor the most innovative/unique. It's not their online functionality, since Microsoft seems to have the lock on that. And I wouldn't say their first party efforts are what really sells systems, either. That crown clearly goes to Nintendo. It's the third party games that sell Playstation. Bloodborne. Street Fighter V. Tetris Effect. Persona. Pretty sure Neir: Automata was exclusive, at least at first? Without third parties backing it, I don't think Playstation would be what it is today. 

 

Those are just my thoughts though. I'm often an idiot, so what do I know?   

1 hour ago, Keyser_Soze said:

Well civilization is on switch.

NBA 2k probably is, @doncic would be devastated if he couldn’t play that game.

 

Okay! 

[SaysWho?]

20 minutes ago, GameDadGrant said:

Wha...only sometimes!?! 

 

Well, I mean...what is Playstation's greatest strength, if not it's third party relationships? It's not hardware, since Playstation is neither the most powerful out there nor the most innovative/unique. It's not their online functionality, since Microsoft seems to have the lock on that. And I wouldn't say their first party efforts are what really sells systems, either. That crown clearly goes to Nintendo. It's the third party games that sell Playstation. Bloodborne. Street Fighter V. Tetris Effect. Pretty sure Neir: Automata was exclusive, at least at first? Without third parties backing it, I don't think Playstation would be what it is today. 

 

Bloodborne is first party. 

 

Are you aware of what SharePlay is? Or how its streaming/sharing services have worked for years? Or its flash sale/PSN sale frequency?

 

Nintendo needs its first party to sell since it's not getting the big third party games such as Resident Evil 2, Monster Hunter World, Red Dead 2, Call of Duty, and I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess it'll miss out on Cyberpunk, unlike the other two/PC.

 

Sony's first party games sell very well, and more importantly, review very well. Its greatest strength is its first party, but it's weirder that you think third party is their only strength. 

 

It doesn't sound like you know much about the other consoles' games, services, and specifics about their online services. Why speak about them?

[Bacon]

Sony's STR is the devs they've bought/created. Naughty Dog, Guerrilla Games, Sucker Punch Productions, Sony Santa Monica, Media Molecule

 

[Keyser_Soze]

Many people say that the only reason to own a playstation console is for the first party games so you're pretty much

 

 

with your assessment.

[GameDadGrant]

25 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

It doesn't sound like you know much about the other consoles' games, services, and specifics about their online services. Why speak about them?

 

33 minutes ago, GameDadGrant said:

Those are just my thoughts though. I'm often an idiot, so what do I know?   

 

That said, Bloodborne was developed by FromSoftware, not SIE. It was published by Sony, but that doesn't make it a first party game any more than Bayonetta 3 being published by Nintendo make it a first party Nintendo game. 

 

Sharing/streaming/sales are great, but not really exclusive to Playstation, nor its greatest strength. At least, IMO. YMMV.

 

Third parties are what makes the Playstation platform, I think. Heck, I'd be willing to bet money that like, nine out of the top ten best selling games on PS4 are third party games. And likely the major reason a lot of people buy Playstation. 

[GameDadGrant]

2 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

Many people say that the only reason to own a playstation console is for the first party games so you're pretty much

 

 

with your assessment.

Is that true? I'd be surprised. What are the best selling games on PS4, anyway?  Anyone know? 

 

Yes, I'm too lazy to Google it myself!  

[crispy4000]

4 minutes ago, GameDadGrant said:

Is that true? I'd be surprised. What are the best selling games on PS4, anyway?  Anyone know? 

 

Yes, I'm too lazy to Google it myself!  

 

Horizon, Spiderman, God of War, God of War are top 4.  Witcher 3 is #5. (source)

RDR2, CoD, GTA, etc could be higher than Witcher 3, but we don't have platform specific numbers.

[SaysWho?]

12 minutes ago, GameDadGrant said:

 

 

That said, Bloodborne was developed by FromSoftware, not SIE. It was published by Sony, but that doesn't make it a first party game any more than Bayonetta 3 being published by Nintendo make it a first party Nintendo game. 

 

Sharing/streaming/sales are great, but not really exclusive to Playstation, nor its greatest strength. At least, IMO. YMMV.

 

Third parties are what makes the Playstation platform, I think. Heck, I'd be willing to bet money that like, nine out of the top ten best selling games on PS4 are third party games. And likely the major reason a lot of people buy Playstation. 

 

First party is determined by who owns the IP. Sony owns it, Sony approached From to make it, and Sony Japan helped with the game. From cannot make another Bloodborne unless Sony has something to do with it. That's a first party game. 

 

I really don't get what your point is now. Third parties are its strengths even though they're not exclusive, but its sharing/streaming capabilities, including SharePlay, that were a big selling point and are still further than the competition imo, are not exclusive. What?

 

Why do you cite sales to dismiss God of War/Horizon/Spidey/Uncharted/Gran Turismo, which all have sold very well (GOW/Spidey were Top 10 last year in sales), but then mention Bloodborne as a strength, which sold less? I don't get what your point really is.  Are you saying you viewed the Wii U as inferior to the PS4 and Xbox One because of its inferior sales and that the Wii U had no strengths?

 

Third parties are their only strength? I just don't know what Twilight Zone craziness I have walked into.

[Paperclyp]

44 minutes ago, GameDadGrant said:

Wha...only sometimes!?! 

 

Well, I mean...what is Playstation's greatest strength, if not it's third party relationships? It's not hardware, since Playstation is neither the most powerful out there nor the most innovative/unique. It's not their online functionality, since Microsoft seems to have the lock on that. And I wouldn't say their first party efforts are what really sells systems, either. That crown clearly goes to Nintendo. It's the third party games that sell Playstation. Bloodborne. Street Fighter V. Tetris Effect. Persona. Pretty sure Neir: Automata was exclusive, at least at first? Without third parties backing it, I don't think Playstation would be what it is today. 

 

You’re taking a vertical slice of time and making a whole lot of vague and arbitrary generalizations here. 

 

Sony had the strongest hardware for 2-3 years this gen until the half step released. Their online has not been demonstrably better or worse than XBL. Xbox’s UI is chuggy shit. Etc.

 

But take this slice a time a few years ago - Nintendo’s innovation was the Wii U. Its first party games weren’t selling for shit. They have no idea what to do with online. They seem to have very little idea what their consumers actually want. Most of that is still true for Nintendo.

 

This stuff waxes and wanes for all companies, because once they’re in position to do so, they’ll take advantage of their consumers as much as they can get away with. Over the years, Nintendo might be the most guilty of this as anyone.

[Bacon]

40 minutes ago, Bacon said:

Sony's STR is the devs they've bought/created. Naughty Dog, Guerrilla Games, Sucker Punch Productions, Sony Santa Monica, Media Molecule

 

 

[GameDadGrant]

All I'm saying is, in my OPINION ( ! ) I feel the Playstation brand's biggest strength is its third party relationships/partnerships. That's not a bad thing.

 

22 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Horizon, Spiderman, God of War, God of War are top 4.  Witcher 3 is #5. (source)

RDR2, CoD, GTA, etc could be higher than Witcher 3, but we don't have platform specific numbers.

Weird. I got not-lazy and Google'd PS4's top-selling games, and got this list as top-sellers:

 

Grand Theft Auto V

Call of Duty: WWII

Call of Duty Black Ops III

Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare

NBA 2k18

Battlefield 1

God of War

Star Wars Battlefront

Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare

Nba 2k17

 

SOURCE

 

It was from a few months ago, but it also took into account digital sales. 

[Bacon]

But the Xbox has the same list. You could literally say the same thing about the Xbox. If the Switch had those titles I wouldn't be surprised if the list was also the same.

[Keyser_Soze]

 

Grant trolling now. Pack it up boys!

[GameDadGrant]

3 minutes ago, Bacon said:

But the Xbox has the same list. You could literally say the same thing about the Xbox. If the Switch had those titles I wouldn't be surprised if the list was also the same.

That doesn't take away from what I'm saying though? Xbox has great third party relationships too. 

 

2 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Grant trolling now. Pack it up boys!

Stop. 

[SaysWho?]

12 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Grant trolling now. Pack it up boys!

 

The past 20 posts have been

 

[Bacon]

13 minutes ago, GameDadGrant said:

That doesn't take away from what I'm saying though? Xbox has great third party relationships too. 

It does take away. They literally have the same strengths according to your logic. So, Sony and Microsoft also need other strengths. You said this was sony's biggest strength when it is the strength of 2 out of 3 console platforms. Nintendo is incapable of gaining as much third party support because their hardware is weaker and the audience isn't there. Nintendo is the only one that relies on first party for their consoles, and their first party sales are on par with Sony and MS.

 

I don't want to say third parties don't sell systems, but, I would assume that it is mostly first parties that sell systems and then people buy third parties on the platform they own.

[Bacon]

And this list paints a different picture

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PlayStation_4_video_games

 

4 of the top 5 are sony exclusives.

 

X1 list

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Xbox_One_video_games

[GameDadGrant]

4 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

The past 20 posts have been

 

 

I feel like I've only said one thing: Playstation's greatest strength (IMO) is it's third party relationships.That's it. 

 

4 minutes ago, Bacon said:

It does take away. They literally have the same strengths according to your logic. So, Sony and Microsoft also need other strengths. You said this was sony's biggest strength when it is the strength of 2 out of 3 console platforms. Nintendo is incapable of gaining as much third party support because their hardware is weaker and the audience isn't there. Nintendo is the only one that relies on first party for their consoles, and their first party sales are on par with Sony and MS.

I wouldn't say third parties is Xbox's greatest strength, though. Playstation has (again, IMO) better relationships with third parties than Xbox. Xbox's greatest strength is (IMO!) it's hardware and online functionality. 

 

But like I said before (and I'll say it again): I'm often an idiot, so what do I know?  

 

[Bacon]

4 minutes ago, GameDadGrant said:

I wouldn't say third parties is Xbox's greatest strength, though. Playstation has (again, IMO) better relationships with third parties than Xbox. Xbox's greatest strength is (IMO!) it's hardware and online functionality.  

 

But like I said before (and I'll say it again): I'm often an idiot, so what do I know?  

Well, you can check my above lists, and MS had better third party sales last gen. And, IIRC, the 360 generally sold more than the PS3. And right now, the PS4 is selling more than the X1. If these lists are accurate than Last gen's two GTA games sold better on PS3, but CoD and Skyrim sold better on 360.

[GameDadGrant]

Just now, Bacon said:

Well, you can check my above lists, and MS had better third party sales last gen. And, IIRC, the 360 generally sold more than the PS3. And right now, the PS4 is selling more than the X1.

Yeah, saw those lists before...and last gen was great for third parties on 360. I'd guess that was mostly due to how great LIVE was, and how easy it was to connect with other players online, cross-party chat, etc. That's just my anecdotal observations, though. 

 

Also, how accurate is that Wikipedia page? It lists GTAV as only selling 2 million units on PS4. But VGChartz reports it has sold nearly 20 million on PS4. Which is actually true? Honestly asking, I have no idea how reliable either source is. 

[SaysWho?]

8 minutes ago, GameDadGrant said:

 

I feel like I've only said one thing: Playstation's greatest strength (IMO)

 

You said "only" as a fanboy jab, dude.

[GameDadGrant]

4 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

You said "only" as a fanboy jab, dude.

Not a fanboy. Not a jab. Sorry if it came across that way.

 

Devil's advocate: Even if it was a fanboy jab (it wasn't, I promise!), the conversation didn't have shifting goal posts. 

[crispy4000]

1 hour ago, GameDadGrant said:

Weird. I got not-lazy and Google'd PS4's top-selling games, and got this list as top-sellers:

 

Grand Theft Auto V

Call of Duty: WWII

Call of Duty Black Ops III

Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare

NBA 2k18

Battlefield 1

God of War

Star Wars Battlefront

Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare

Nba 2k17

 

SOURCE

 

It was from a few months ago, but it also took into account digital sales. 

I believe that.  Mat Piscatella is a trustworthy source.  GTA/CoD/NBA2k are the biggest game franchises in the US.  So it's not exactly a bad showing to see God of War beating some of their releases.  It's a significant game.  Spiderman would have likely bested it if the list was updated.  It outsold GoW last year at physical retail.

 

1 hour ago, GameDadGrant said:

Yeah, saw those lists before...and last gen was great for third parties on 360. I'd guess that was mostly due to how great LIVE was, and how easy it was to connect with other players online, cross-party chat, etc. That's just my anecdotal observations, though. 

 

Also, how accurate is that Wikipedia page? It lists GTAV as only selling 2 million units on PS4. But VGChartz reports it has sold nearly 20 million on PS4. Which is actually true? Honestly asking, I have no idea how reliable either source is. 

Wikipedia pages sources sales reports by the companies (or NPD) themselves.  If GTA PS4 sales are at 2 million there, it's because that's the last accurate number we have.

VGChartz numbers are fake.  Everything on there is generated with an estimation algorithm that has been illustrated to be wildly inaccurate.  When real numbers come out, they spool that data into their charts, then keep layering on their bogus algorithm on top of them.  They're never a viable source.

[Rodimus]

2 hours ago, GameDadGrant said:

Wha...only sometimes!?! 

 

Well, I mean...what is Playstation's greatest strength, if not it's third party relationships? It's not hardware, since Playstation is neither the most powerful out there nor the most innovative/unique. It's not their online functionality, since Microsoft seems to have the lock on that. And I wouldn't say their first party efforts are what really sells systems, either. That crown clearly goes to Nintendo. It's the third party games that sell Playstation. Bloodborne. Street Fighter V. Tetris Effect. Persona. Pretty sure Neir: Automata was exclusive, at least at first? Without third parties backing it, I don't think Playstation would be what it is today. 

 

Those are just my thoughts though. I'm often an idiot, so what do I know?   

Okay! 

OK I don't agree with this entirely.

 

First lets talk online functionality. Are you thinking of the PS3's online capability? I mean look at the PS4. I can play my PS4 on my Mac/PC or iPhone remotely. Before I used to play Destiny on my Vita using remote play from a different town. It is very easy to create a party and invite players to games. I can even hand the controller over to a friend in a different city or we can play 2 player. The Store works fine and only Playstation started with using cash and not some stupid points system. Then PlayStation even has a game streaming service called PS Now. It has been around for years. You are now hearing that Microsoft is looking to do the same yet Sony has been doing it for years. Sony was even the first to include free games with their online service

 

Second Sony's First Party Games. Sony sold 10 million copies of a new IP Horizon Zero Dawn. Also they Have God Of War and others. I know it is not Mario Kart or Mario Odyssey Sony puts out a great amount of exclusive games on their own. They also partner with studios to make games like Bloodbourne and Spiderman for IP they either own or have the rights to. It seems like a hollow argument to say that PlayStation doesn't have a good 1st party catalog like Last of Us and GT.

 

Third is Innovation. What other console manufacture has a real VR solution? None of them. The Nintendo Labo is a kit. Sure they don't make a hybrid console but that doesn't mean they are not innovative. This Generation PlayStation brought us the share button. This weather you use it or not changed everything. Even the Switch has a dedicated Share button for screenshots. People use screenshots to share or track their progress of guide them in the game. Also the ability to stream out of the box was something PlayStation added. Sony has made innovations like their use of AR in games in the past. Also saying they don't win on power is a revisionist view. Sure the last console released is the most powerful. That has been try since the beginning of video games with Nintendo being an exception these last three. It is still true that the base PS4 is more powerful than the base Xbox One S. The X has the advantage over the Pro but that doesn't seem to really more the needle for them.

 

 

So with that said. I agree that PlayStation is where it is also because of its relationships with third parties. Also they seem more willing to take risks with games they make like Gravity Rush or Loco Roco.

[crispy4000]

Sony's 1st party is at a level of strength right now where if they lost some level of 3rd party support, Playstation consoles would still be selling fine.

 

Partly because of their own development and publishing efforts.  Partly because Microsoft is taking away some of the incentive to buy their next console (xCloud with Games Pass, all games on PC and without Gold fees, etc).  We're at the point where you could rent the next Halo for pocket change to play streaming on a tablet.  Some people will be just fine with that.

I don't think Sony would ever be backed into the same corner as Nintendo was with the Wii U.  Where the games had to make up for the hardware's shortcomings to that degree.

[AbsolutSurgen]

PlayStation has been the runaway leader this gen for a lot of very good reasons.

 

However, given that the 3rd party output and online experience are largely identical on both Xbox/PS, it makes no sense to call either one of them a "strength" relative to each other.  A strength relative to Nintendo....

[SaysWho?]

5 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

Sony's 1st party is at a level of strength right now where if they lost some level of 3rd party support, Playstation consoles would still be selling fine.

 

Partly because of their own development and publishing efforts.  Partly because Microsoft is taking away some of the incentive to buy their next console (xCloud with Games Pass, all games on PC without Gold fees, etc).  We're at the point where you can rent the next Halo for pocket change to play streaming on a tablet.  Some people will be just fine with that.

I don't think Sony would ever be backed into the same corner as Nintendo was with the Wii U.  Where the games had to make up for the hardware's shortcomings to that degree.

 

It's certainly different now compared to the past three gens. Before, only Gran Turismo could do something like 10+ million. Ever since The Last of Us (which sold 17 million combined with the PS4 version, and I wouldn't be surprised if more than half was from the PS4), they actually have several that have likely done that by now past NPD's fall update (Spidey, God of War), and Horizon and Uncharted 4 are very close. And they still have several big games left.

 

It's nice to see their games finally selling as they are, but it took a while to build them to that point. To believe how small studios such as Santa Monica, Naughty Dog and Guerrilla used to be...

[GameDadGrant]

It's always interesting to read your guys' thoughts on stuff like this. I like hearing/reading about different perspectives from gamers. Cheers, y'all. 

 

Back to the topic at hand...what are the *actual* chances of Take-Two agreeing to this acquisition? And how much money would have to be paid? I imagine it'll be a pretty penny! 

[AbsolutSurgen]

It's already been debunked by Sony.  If talks are ongoing, they wouldn't be able to deny it without getting in trouble with the SEC.

[Rodimus]

@GameDadGrant I do as well.

 

Now I see this as a big rumor. However what do we think it would cost to buy Take-Two? I don't know its current stock evaluation. I can imagine this news has spiked it some. I would rather them buy Konami but that isn't going to happen. Or at least have Konami sell Sony their Hudson IP.

[GameDadGrant]

@Rodimus

 

Honestly, just having ANYONE buy out Konami would be great, if for nothing else but to get new releases from their fantastic IPs. I need my Castlevania fix! And yeah, Bloodstained may end up being great, but it's not the "real thing."  Hope the rumor of the Castlevania Anniversary Collection turns out to be true. While it wouldn't be any new games, it would be nice to have a large compilation of many of the titles in one spot, for once. 

 

But yeah, Take-Two would literally cost hundreds of millions of dollars, I'd suspect. But if what @mikechorney said just happened, maybe we don't have anything to really worry about anyway. 

[Rodimus]

@GameDadGrant  I really hope the Castlevania Collection is real and complete. Konami needs to be bought so they can cleanup the place and make it a great place to work and release great games from their IP. Also not hold Hudson games hostage.

[GameDadGrant]

Agreed!