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I looked for a state that’s taking gun violence seriously. I found Massachusetts.


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Just now, Boyle5150 said:

Then maybe the narrative should change when speaking about gun control to “gun deaths in America” as to not give an excuse to those who hold so strongly to the second amendment.  

 

Right, so back to you being pedantic for the sake of being pedantic...

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2 minutes ago, Boyle5150 said:

“Was the movie violent?”

 

”no, there was a really sad scene where a guy with cancer committed suicide, but it wasn’t violent”. 

 

"No, there was a really sad scene where a guy with cancer shot himself."

 

"Then that's violent you dipshit."

 

"Oh yeah."

 

That'll be the extent of my discussing this with you because this isn't really opinion; you're just wrong. 

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34 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

According to many philosophical systems, we are all of the same universal substance.  Ergo, inflicting harm to oneself is inflicting harm to all.

"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."

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Why shouldn’t we be concerned that people can attempt to take their life with a method that is nearly 100% effective? The laws that help there are largely the same as the laws that will hopefully stop criminal gun violence.

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1 minute ago, Amazatron said:

The definition of violence contradicts Boyle's entire argument.  But I guess MAGA hat nuance or something....

 

Every time I read about a mass shooting, it's always violent until the guy shoots himself. =\

 

But anyway...

 

What the article says is something that I think many gun control advocates understand: gun violence is a national issue because only when you have a national standard do you have the most effective gun violence prevention since people can't go out-of-state to circumvent gun laws. I applaud Massachusetts, though, for keeping gun violence much lower overall.

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I don't think it's insane to consider teasing gun-related suicide from other forms of violence. Personally, I think people should be able to commit suicide and I think there are scenarios where to prevent someone from doing so lacks compassion. If you're comfortable with that, it make sense to want to exclude from the discussion of gun control suicide that should otherwise be permitted.

 

However, my understanding is people who commit suicide by guns usually do so impulsively where if not given the easy option, could often turn their life around. Indeed, this is probably true for most suicides in general. In which case, we should seek to avoid suicides by guns and it should be part of the discussion in gun control and "gun violence."

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17 minutes ago, legend said:

However, my understanding is people who commit suicide by guns usually do so impulsively where if not given the easy option, could often turn their life around. Indeed, this is probably true for most suicides in general. In which case, we should seek to avoid suicides by guns and it should be part of the discussion in gun control and "gun violence."

 

It's impulsive, readily available, and much more effective at the end result than other means like drug overdosing.

 

Access-to-guns-and-risk-of-suicide-chart

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1 hour ago, legend said:

I don't think it's insane to consider teasing gun-related suicide from other forms of violence. Personally, I think people should be able to commit suicide and I think there are scenarios where to prevent someone from doing so lacks compassion. If you're comfortable with that, it make sense to want to exclude from the discussion of gun control suicide that should otherwise be permitted.

 

However, my understanding is people who commit suicide by guns usually do so impulsively where if not given the easy option, could often turn their life around. Indeed, this is probably true for most suicides in general. In which case, we should seek to avoid suicides by guns and it should be part of the discussion in gun control and "gun violence."

100% agreed.  

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2 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Every time I read about a mass shooting, it's always violent until the guy shoots himself. =\

 

But anyway...

 

What the article says is something that I think many gun control advocates understand: gun violence is a national issue because only when you have a national standard do you have the most effective gun violence prevention since people can't go out-of-state to circumvent gun laws. I applaud Massachusetts, though, for keeping gun violence much lower overall.

This is so disingenuous.  

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4 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Sigh...

The definition of "Violence"

 

 

This fucking board man...:lol:

noun

swift and intense force:the violence of a storm.    Swiftness and intensity is purely subjective.

 

rough or injurious physical force, action, or treatment:to die by violence.  Again this is subjective.  

 

an unjust or unwarranted exertion of force or power, as against rights or laws:to take over a government by violence.

a violent act or proceeding.   Suicide is not unjust nor unwarranted to the victim.

 

rough or immoderate vehemence, as of feeling or language:the violence of his hatred.  Does not apply to suicide

 

damage through distortion or unwarranted alteration: to do editorial violence to a text.  Suicide is not "unwarranted" to the victim.  

 

Let me very clear on my position (one that mirrors legends.)  I think our gun laws are fucking shit, and massive reforms need to be made for gun ownership.  I pretty much don't think the general population should be allowed to own a gun.  I think when we are making new laws, Suicide should absolutely be one of the major discussion points, as its far too easy to commit suicide when someone is in possession of a gun, and given the fact that they probably wouldn't kill themselves, should be the number one reason for stricter gun laws.  When discussing violent deaths caused by guns, I think suicide is beside the point and should be seen as a different category.    Can suicides be subjectively violent, sure, can they also be subjectively non-violent, absolutely.  Your subjective reasoning doesn't dictate if something is violent or not, but rather if it is violent within the given context, in your own subject experience.

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3 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Pedantry aside, I'm all for laws like these.

I just wish that if you're going to make me jump through all the hoops to prove I'm trustworthy then trust me.  This is basically the same system we have in NJ,  except they use it here as a club to suppress gun ownership rather than validating good owners like in Mass.

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1 minute ago, Slug said:

I just wish that if you're going to make me jump through all the hoops to prove I'm trustworthy then trust me.  This is basically the same system we have in NJ,  except they use it here as a club to suppress gun ownership rather than validating good owners like in Mass.

How so? I'm originally from Jersey... born and raised.

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1 minute ago, Slug said:

I just wish that if you're going to make me jump through all the hoops to prove I'm trustworthy then trust me.  This is basically the same system we have in NJ,  except they use it here as a club to suppress gun ownership rather than validating good owners like in Mass.

Gun ownership should be suppressed.   How many people have been denied ownership in your state based on this same type of law?

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