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The Official Thread of Existing While MAGA

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On 2/9/2019 at 3:53 PM, Tao 2.0 said:

I was wondering if there was a thread in here on the tax return situation. I find it kind of sad and kind of hilarious and I'm going to write many words about it now because this is how I plan on releasing steam after a longstanding embargo of talking politics on any of my own social medias.

 

Now we just get to see if they use it or fuck it up. [Edited for typos.]

 

Great post, truly, but joke's on you because MAGA chuds purposefully troll even themselves so they can own the libs.

 

So don't expect anything uniting us with them. Luckily most of America is us, I hope/believe.

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7 minutes ago, osxmatt said:

 

Quote

“If you’re going to be racist you’re going to leave," said the chef.

 

To which Jill replied, “I’m not racist.”

Quote

“I got raped by illegal aliens,” Jill replied to Budar while throwing something at him. “F---ing rapist."

 

🤔 

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On 2/11/2019 at 7:03 PM, Greatoneshere said:

 

Great post, truly, but joke's on you because MAGA chuds purposefully troll even themselves so they can own the libs.

 

So don't expect anything uniting us with them. Luckily most of America is us, I hope/believe.

This is America and money is God ultimately and I believe this will be temporary if people continue to get fucked financially. It's a Zeitgeist thing of extreme reactions the way I see it. 

 

My reality bubble, daily life whatever, is very blue collar so I know many people who supported Donald Trump, of several ethnic and racial backgrounds ironically, and I'd say a minimum of over half of them have turned on that completely and have willingly admitted so. I agree that there are obvious regions and castes that will always and fucking eternally do exactly what you said but being around many people that are considered dumb, irredeemable and so forth in broad strokes regularly, I've seen different gladly.

 

Minus the one dude who told me he hopes I get deported as a sikk burn for making him look like a moron in an unrelated discussion :salt:

 

 

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2 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

This is America and money is God ultimately and I believe this will be temporary if people continue to get fucked financially. It's a Zeitgeist thing of extreme reactions the way I see it. 

 

My reality bubble, daily life whatever, is very blue collar so I know many people who supported Donald Trump, of several ethnic and racial backgrounds ironically, and I'd say a minimum of over half of them have turned on that completely and have willingly admitted so. I agree that there are obvious regions and castes that will always and fucking eternally do exactly what you said but being around many people that are considered dumb, irredeemable and so forth in broad strokes regularly, I've seen different gladly.

 

Minus the one dude who told me he hopes I get deported as a sikk burn for making him look like a moron in an unrelated discussion :salt:

 

I mean . . . I hope so. As I said, most of America is us, I hope/believe. But as you said, there are some that will keep trolling themselves to own the libs no matter what, and they are a very loud minority that somehow wields a lot of political power. 

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14 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

Average return now down 17% compared to last year: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tax-refunds-down-17-percent-160031259.html

A friend told me he owed (about $1500) for the first time in his life, and he (stupidly) adjusts his withholding to get himself a big "bonus" come tax time.

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3 hours ago, sblfilms said:

Good. The goal should be as close to $0 as possible.

 

Yes, sure, let's just ignore the part where people are getting blindsided by this because the GOP actively lied about where the paycheck bump was coming from to make themselves look good for the midterms, leaving people unable to prepare for what happened to their withholdings.

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Also most people don't give two shits about an extra $20-40/pay period if they have variable income (like hourly workers) when you plan on getting that big government refund to pay off bills, catch up on other things, or make that big purchase you've been wanting, as you literally had been doing for years. Because spoilers, most people are bad with money for a multitude of reasons.

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10 hours ago, sblfilms said:

Good. The goal should be as close to $0 as possible.

 

Not to pick on you (since plenty of people on this board advocate the same thing), but that's very much a stance born out of theory as opposed to practice. Obviously it is better to save/invest that money on your own as opposed to giving the government an interest-free loan, but most people don't have the patience or diligence to see that through; if they get an extra $100/month in their paychecks as opposed to a $1,200 refund, chances are they don't end the year with $1,200 saved up.

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22 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

People can learn to manage their finances better.

 

'Better' is kind of an amorphous concept though...For example like b_m stated, a lot of people use their tax refunds on big purchases; for a big purchase is it better to save a small monthly amount on your own (and potentially fall short), finance it and put that monthly amount toward the balance (likely paying interest), or wrap up that monthly amount into a tax refund and buy it outright (ensuring you save at the expense of giving the government a free loan)? All else being equal the first option is the best, but when it comes to personal finance there are too many variables for things to always be equal (i.e. what if a number of completely normal scenarios prevents you from saving the full amount). The 'lost interest' on a tax refund is an extremely small price to pay to reliably 'save' that money; most people don't have refunds that are large enough to make the decision that consequential. 

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5 minutes ago, Chris- said:

 

'Better' is kind of an amorphous concept though...For example like b_m stated, a lot of people use their tax refunds on big purchases; for a big purchase is it better to save a small monthly amount on your own (and potentially fall short), finance it and put that monthly amount toward the balance (likely paying interest), or wrap up that monthly amount into a tax refund and buy it outright (ensuring you save at the expense of giving the government a free loan)? All else being equal the first option is the best, but when it comes to personal finance there are too many variables for things to always be equal (i.e. what if a number of completely normal scenarios prevents you from saving the full amount). And honestly, the 'lost interest' on a tax refund is an extremely small price to pay to reliably 'save' that money; most people don't have refunds that are large enough to make the decision that consequential. 

You make the point for me :p Its better to have the cash on hand for those completely normal scenarios instead of sitting in the treasury departments checking account waiting to be refunded in January. Continue saving towards the major purchase even with the set back.

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Just now, sblfilms said:

You make the point for me :p Its better to have the cash on hand for those completely normal scenarios instead of sitting in the treasury departments checking account. Continue saving towards the major purchase even with the set back.

 

That assumes you need the cash on hand for those scenarios though, which may or may not be the case; if you can withstand those scenarios without it, using a refund as a savings vehicle becomes more rational (or at least less irrational). Really, my point is that there are too many variables to reliably say what is right for any one person. To wit, 'continue to save despite the set back' is fine if the purchase is something frivolous like a TV, but what if it is something important like a car repair so you can find better jobs that may be further away, or a dental surgery so you aren't in constant pain? There is too much to account for to say whether that money is better off in someone's paycheck or in their tax return.

 

If you haven't, I'd encourage you to read 'The Unbanking of America', which explores that line of thought in light of check cashing and payday loans. Using your refund as a savings vehicle or spending $3 to cash your paycheck don't seem like rational decisions from the outside, but if you are unlikely to save that money on your own and you are persistently at risk of incurring overdraft fees, they may be prudent choices.

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Everything you are talking about is directly linked to financial mismanagement, and absolutely banks take advantage of the financial illiteracy of the average customer.

 

“If you are unlikely to save that money on your own” is the key issue. This is because of your own choices. You can learn how to make better choices.

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For many of the lower class/working poor, the stressors of being poor don't always allow you to make the most optimal financial (or other) decisions. We're talking about people not unemotional machines.

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1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

For many of the lower class/working poor, the stressors of being poor don't always allow you to make the most optimal financial (or other) decisions. We're talking about people not unemotional machines.

The working poor get refundable credits, their return isn’t ever going to be close to $0, therefore we aren’t talking about the working poor. 

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Yeah I was just going to say I take the most exemptions allowed by law and I still get anywhere from 1 to 2k back each year

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17 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

The working poor get refundable credits, their return isn’t ever going to be close to $0, therefore we aren’t talking about the working poor. 

Are the refundable credits you talk about are primarily the eitc? If so, for a single person with no kids the AGI limit is hilariously low, and the maximum benefit a single person with no kids can get is $518. With kids it's larger, but that in no way offsets any obligation you get from having a kid, and is still pretty low, especially if you live in a moderate to large metro area. You can be working poor and not qualify for eitc, and you can also be working poor and not be in poverty. 

 

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And sometimes it's not about pure income, but the precarious situation by which you earn your income. Unstable but somewhat lucrative work can promote mental stressors just as much as just barely scraping by in a somewhat consistent low paying job. 

 

Hell, not even knowing what your work schedule will be like the next week is stressful! What to do about child care, things like that take a toll! 

 

For a lot of people this is the once a year windfall, even if it isn't the most economically sound or beneficial, is something to look forward to when they can't manage the self control (or any other reason) needed to save up that money

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59 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Everything you are talking about is directly linked to financial mismanagement, and absolutely banks take advantage of the financial illiteracy of the average customer.

 

“If you are unlikely to save that money on your own” is the key issue. This is because of your own choices. You can learn how to make better choices.

 

How much does the average tax refund represent in lost interest/capital? How does that amount weigh versus the possibility of not saving as much? In the $100/$1,200 scenario (easy math), you would only have to miss one month (if that) to wipe out whatever you gained from saving yourself. Like I said, using refunds as a savings vehicle ultimately ends up being a minute cost. You are suggesting hyper-precise decision making for nominal gain. 

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18 minutes ago, Chris- said:

 

How much does the average tax refund represent in lost interest/capital? How does that amount weigh versus the possibility of not saving as much? In the $100/$1,200 scenario (easy math), you would only have to miss one month (if that) to wipe out whatever you gained from saving yourself. Like I said, using refunds as a savings vehicle ultimately ends up being a minute cost. You are suggesting hyper-precise decision making for nominal gain. 

I don’t care about the interest issue at all. If you need to use the refund as a savings vehicle, it’s is precisely because you are a poor financial manager. It is certainly “rational” if you behave irrationally with money the rest of the year.

 

30 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

For a lot of people this is the once a year windfall, even if it isn't the most economically sound or beneficial, is something to look forward to when they can't manage the self control (or any other reason) needed to save up that money

 

They can learn self-control and it will benefit them far more than a once a year bonus payment of their own money.

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1 minute ago, sblfilms said:

I don’t care about the interest issue at all. If you need to use the refund as a savings vehicle, it’s is precisely because you are a poor financial manager. It is certainly “rational” if you behave irrationally with money the rest of the year.

 

That seems like a huge assumption. Maybe some people just like the simplicity of having it done for them as opposed to managing it themselves, or they get a thrill from seeing it all at once as opposed to slowly accumulating it. Besides, I'd rather people make the "rational" decision in light of their irrationality than not.

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8 minutes ago, Chris- said:

 

That seems like a huge assumption. Maybe some people just like the simplicity of having it done for them as opposed to managing it themselves, or they get a thrill from seeing it all at once as opposed to slowly accumulating it. Besides, I'd rather people make the "rational" decision in light of their irrationality than not.

 

It’s not an assumption, it is born out by the data on what people use their refunds for which a majority spend it on paying down credit card debt and catching up on past due bills, two big indicators of financial mismanagement.

 

4 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

I’ve read it. I’ve lived it myself. Thankfully people didn’t treat me as though I can’t learn a better way to handle my finances.

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