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Kids with MAGA hats and Native Americans involved in... something


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4 hours ago, Boyle5150 said:

When polled the majority of Muslims supported sharia here in the US.  And that's the western Muslims.  Islam is believed to be the answer to all aspects of life, politically and otherwise. 

 

Depends on which Muslims, where, we're talking about. You are painting with an incredibly broad brush about all Muslims in general. I will only repeat myself one more time, please actually address what I'm saying rather than talking in circuitous logic.

 

1. Wearing MAGA hats at an anti-abortion event as a young white male absolutely says a lot about yourself as a person, especially your political beliefs. This is flatly true.

2. Seeing a Muslim (particularly in America) wearing traditional Muslim attire means nothing on its face, per se. 

3. So one can easily make an assumption about someone based on premise 1, but cannot make an assumption about premise 2.

 

And yes, you are an agnostic if you grant even the slightest chance that God could exist. The entire point of being an atheist is an absolute belief that God definitively doesn't exist in the same was that monotheistic religions require absolute belief that God does exist. Both are extremes that demand not just belief, but absolute belief. But these terms are fluid to a degree.

 

Anyways, so no, wearing Muslim attire is not inherently political, but wearing MAGA hats at an anti-abortion event absolutely is, so in the latter you can easily and happily judge the person based on their person and in the former, you cannot at all.

 

That's like saying me wearing a pro-Bernie t-shirt is the same as a Sikh man wearing a traditional Sikh turban in terms of conflating the two as being the same. They aren't: in the former I'm doing clear political speech with the shirt (equivalent to wearing a MAGA hat) whereas a Sikh man just existing wearing his attire says nothing of his personal or political values because religious interpretations for each religion can be so broad among that religions believers that no assumption can be made on attire alone.

 

The Supreme Court makes these very distinctions in terms of free speech with the first amendment. If they understand this concept, surely you can too. 

 

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3 hours ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

This is really dumb. I don't know any atheist who will tell you they know with certainty that god does not exist. I'm an atheist because I hold no belief in a god, because I don't see the evidence for one, not because I know for a fact there isn't one.

It's pretty simple. Do you believe in a god? It's a yes or no question. There are different types of atheists, but if you hold no belief in a god, then you're an atheist. 

 

The belief as I understand it must be absolute (see my previous post above). Again, these labels are fluid though. 

 

My post you quoted was mostly a joke though. I have no problems with atheists at all. :p 

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1 minute ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

The belief as I understand it must be absolute (see my previous post above). Again, these labels are fluid though. 

 

My post you quoted was mostly a joke though. I have no problems with atheists at all. :p 

Eh, not really, because hardly any atheists are going to claim they know 100% no god exists. Like I said, it's a really pedantic argument in my followup post.

 

You can call yourself a apatheist or whatever, but you're basically an atheist. Either you believe in a god or you don't. Apatheists can pretty much be thrown under the atheist umbrella. 

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20 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Depends on which Muslims, where, we're talking about. You are painting with an incredibly broad brush about all Muslims in general. I will only repeat myself one more time, please actually address what I'm saying rather than talking in circuitous logic.

 

1. Wearing MAGA hats at an anti-abortion event as a young white male absolutely says a lot about yourself as a person, especially your political beliefs. This is flatly true.

2. Seeing a Muslim (particularly in America) wearing traditional Muslim attire means nothing on its face, per se. 

3. So one can easily make an assumption about someone based on premise 1, but cannot make an assumption about premise 2.

 

And yes, you are an agnostic if you grant even the slightest chance that God could exist. The entire point of being an atheist is an absolute belief that God definitively doesn't exist in the same was that monotheistic religions require absolute belief that God does exist. Both are extremes that demand not just belief, but absolute belief. But these terms are fluid to a degree.

 

Anyways, so no, wearing Muslim attire is not inherently political, but wearing MAGA hats at an anti-abortion event absolutely is, so in the latter you can easily and happily judge the person based on their person and in the former, you cannot at all.

 

That's like saying me wearing a pro-Bernie t-shirt is the same as a Sikh man wearing a traditional Sikh turban in terms of conflating the two as being the same. They aren't: in the former I'm doing clear political speech with the shirt (equivalent to wearing a MAGA hat) whereas a Sikh man just existing wearing his attire says nothing of his personal or political values because religious interpretations for each religion can be so broad among that religions believers that no assumption can be made on attire alone.

 

The Supreme Court makes these very distinctions in terms of free speech with the first amendment. If they understand this concept, surely you can too. 

 

I'll respond to this later... I don't have the time atm but don't want to forget.   There are a lot of holes in this argument that I want to address, but don't want you to misunderstand me.  So please excuse my delayed reply. 

 

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Atheism is simply the lack of belief in God, as opposed to theism which is the belief in god. There is no quantification of how much you believe or don’t :p

 

17 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

1. Wearing MAGA hats at an anti-abortion event as a young white male absolutely says a lot about yourself as a person, especially your political beliefs. This is flatly true.

 

I don’t think it is “flatly true”. It was a class trip, something fun to do with friends. Teens have been taking class trips to events they don’t care about for as long as teens have been in organized education systems. I am sure some of those kids have strong political beliefs, including ones that align with Trump...but I would bet decent money that a lot of the kids got those MAGA hats because they thought it would be funny. Most of the kids were participating in the obnoxiousness like the school chants, but the vast majority weren’t MAGA hat wearers. 

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4 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Atheism is simply the lack of belief in God, as opposed to theism which is the belief in god. There is no quantification of how much you believe or don’t :p

 

That's what I've been saying! :p 

 

I don't believe in the invisible pink bunny floating over my head, either, but no one can say with 100% certainty he doesn't exist. :p 

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12 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Welcome to creepy sports school spirit stuff. They don’t even have an original nickname (Covington Crazies is lifted from the Duke Cameron Crazies).

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1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said:

And yes, you are an agnostic if you grant even the slightest chance that God could exist. The entire point of being an atheist is an absolute belief that God definitively doesn't exist in the same was that monotheistic religions require absolute belief that God does exist. Both are extremes that demand not just belief, but absolute belief. But these terms are fluid to a degree.

 

 

Would it surprise you to learn that perhaps the current two most well know people for being "atheists," Harris and Dawkins, do not claim certainty that God does not exist?

 

These terms are indeed very fluid and a great many people do not define them in ways that are mutually exclusive. That goes for within philosophy and outside it. 

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28 minutes ago, sblfilms said:
44 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Welcome to creepy sports school spirit stuff. They don’t even have an original nickname (Covington Crazies is lifted from the Duke Cameron Crazies).

 

45 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

#1.  WTF

#2. Did anyone not think people from Kentucky were racist? Really Kentucky, has nobody ever visited there but myself?

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26 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

My takeaway from this thread is Muslims would fit in splendidly with the Republican party if the white Christan conservatives didn't hate all brown people.

 

/Leaves thread

 

I've long said the evangelical Christians would love living in Saudi Arabia if you could somehow keep them from realizing it's a Muslim country. 

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10 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said:

 

“showing what was plainly visible in the initial footage—belligerent teens chanting and crowding around an old man until he was surrounded”

 

The kids were already standing there, Philips and a couple more people from the demonstration approached the group that was already there. The kids actually ended up creating a space for Philips to walk through, except for grinning kid who just kept standing there, so Philips continued the drum beating stare down.

 

Because that is certainly what nature grown ups do, slap a drum in a stubborn kid’s face :lol:

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7 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Because that is certainly what nature grown ups do, slap a drum in a stubborn kid’s face :lol:

 

Man who feels cornered doesn't make the calm rational decisions that someone sitting comfortably at their computer thinks is the better course of action, full story at 10.

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2 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

That doesn't make any sense. They are wearing MAGA hats at an anti-abortion event. One can easily infer what their commonly held (horrible) beliefs must be.

 

...

 

Depends on which Muslims, where, we're talking about. You are painting with an incredibly broad brush about all Muslims in general. I will only repeat myself one more time, please actually address what I'm saying rather than talking in circuitous logic.

 

1. Wearing MAGA hats at an anti-abortion event as a young white male absolutely says a lot about yourself as a person, especially your political beliefs. This is flatly true.

2. Seeing a Muslim (particularly in America) wearing traditional Muslim attire means nothing on its face, per se. 

3. So one can easily make an assumption about someone based on premise 1, but cannot make an assumption about premise 2.

 

1) Yes it says a lot, but it doesn't say anything about everyone with certainty. There could easily be kids there that have the attire on due to peer pressure, but I would bet it's a small minority of them. Also, what precisely do you think you can infer from the attire? Tell me what these kids believe aside from being anti abortion (nearly half the country) and being for a wall (which has now evolved into "barriers" and slats)? How certain are you with these extra claims you are adding?

2) I don't see how this is obvious at all. Are we seriously going to claim that someone wearing traditional Muslim attire tells us nothing about that person? Obviously there is room for uncertainty, but this seem like a bold assertion.

3) What assumptions do you think you can make about the person in premise 1 aside from the wall and being anti abortion? Could you not infer traditional Muslim attire increases the probability of certain beliefs vs another group without any attire on? Hmm

 

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21 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Man who feels cornered doesn't make the calm rational decisions that someone sitting comfortably at their computer thinks is the better course of action, full story at 10.

He wasn’t cornered, he walked over to them...and then they parted like the sea. He wasn’t even surrounded by them, he could have turned around and walked back the way he came because the only people behind him were his supporters and the Black Hebrew guys.

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7 minutes ago, Nokt said:

I think you've just changed such how I feel about "talk" shows on youtube.

Except for Good Mythical Morning and the times were the talkers are higher pitched women, I usually watch most pure talking videos in 1.25 speed. I tried 1.5 but that is too fast for me. 

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7 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Atheists are just pussies who don't have the balls to become apatheists. And they don't have the courage to admit they can't 100% know for sure whether God exists or not either and instead become more logically consistent agnostics. :p 

meh, I would say a lot of agnostics are essentially atheists and vice versa. 

 

If you're agnostic, you're obviously open to the idea that there's a minute chance that a supernatural being exists, but I would guess most agnostics also recognize that that chance is so absurdly low that they're effectively atheist. 

 

I think trying to label people who don't really believe in a higher power can be pretty reductive and serves religious people to lump them together as a boogie man a lot easier. 

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2 hours ago, Jason said:

 

At face value this looks pretty bad but that's what Weber is trying to accomplish with this propaganda. Pretty much every kid in the audience is wearing full black clothing and some are painted in black. A few seconds later they get get switched out with everyone wearing blue, then white, then later red. It's a school spirit thing, a way to rile up the opposing team. It has nothing to do with race. 

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4 minutes ago, ALIEN-gunner said:

At face value this looks pretty bad but that's what Weber is trying to accomplish with this propaganda. Pretty much every kid in the audience is wearing full black clothing and some are painted in black. A few seconds later they get get switched out with everyone wearing blue, then white, then later red. It's a school spirit thing, a way to rile up the opposing team. It has nothing to do with race. 

 

If your "school spirit" involves getting done up in blackface then maybe your school is fucking racist.

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Just now, Jason said:

 

If your "school spirit" involves getting done up in blackface then maybe your school is fucking racist.

If it was blackface sure but this isn't blackface, a term used to describe mocking of "black people". They're just painted black for an even...oh come off it, you already know the truth! 

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4 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

If your "school spirit" involves getting done up in blackface then maybe your school is fucking racist.

Covering your skin in black is not blackface. The intent must be specifically to appear as a caricature of a black person, which is why there were lots of black performers who put on blackface for stage and movie roles. The kid in the photo doesn’t appear to be doing such anymore than the boys who covered themselves in blue for their “blue out” were attempting to be caricatures of the Pandoran people.

 

It certainly could be that this kid was

doing blackface, but it does not appear as though that is what he is doing. Maybe there is something else that sheds light on his intent.

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