Television Game of Thrones - Season 8 - Starting April 14th

[fuckle85]

On 5/15/2019 at 8:14 PM, 2user1cup said:

What's a chiset man? Man right? Not min? men, mon, mun?

 

On 5/15/2019 at 7:44 PM, NeoJoe said:

I don't understand what that second tweet means. 

 

Cisgender, Hererosexual. Sounds like the account making that tweet might be trolling though 

[SuperSpreader]

Just now, fuckle85 said:

 

Hererosexual

Why not just say that!?! Jeez

[Brick]

I'm not sure if I fully buy that video of the cast being disappointed in the final season. It could also be taken as nervous laughter because of all the dark, depressing shit that's going down this season. 

[Remarkableriots]

Had Missandei not been killed i wonder if things would have ended differently? 

[Amazatron]

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

That video actually had the opposite effect on me than it intended.  By clearly illustrating the "lose/lose" scenario that she has been forced into, it actually improved my opinion of the writing!

 

From that perspective, it captures the essence of the universe: heads - I win, tails - you lose.

[Mercury33]

I couldn’t make it all the way through that video. He accuses both sides of missing the point then proceeds to...miss several points. Also to say that foreshadowing events in a characters past are NOT character development?? Ok buddy 👍🏻 

[Ghost_MH]

7 hours ago, Remarkableriots said:

Had Missandei not been killed i wonder if things would have ended differently? 

 

Likely, yes. Dany has always needed a trusted advisor around her to keep her focused. Missandei was her most trusted. Tyrion lost that trust by continually making stupid decisions in a bid to not get his brother or sister killed. Varys straight up tried to kill her. Jorah is dead. Jon says he doesn't want the throne, but now he says he doesn't want to be with her either and becomes distant.

 

That leaves her with Grey Worm and he's all for spilling Lannister blood because of Missandei.

[thewhyteboar]

[skillzdadirecta]

2 hours ago, Mercury33 said:

I couldn’t make it all the way through that video. He accuses both sides of missing the point then proceeds to...miss several points. Also to say that foreshadowing events in a characters past are NOT character development?? Ok buddy 👍🏻 

 Jesus christ... I just don't know what to say to that other than this. Just because you don't like where a character ends up doesn't mean it's "wrong". Danerys could have ALWAYS went in this direction as she has always been displayed as being ruthless and she's been wanting to bring "fire and blood" to her enemies in Westeros since before she even got there. It would have been out of character for sure if Jon or Tyrion were to do something like this, but her? No. My issue was that they were so heavy handed in telegraphing a potential turn to "mad-queen" especially in recent episodes that I thought they were going to do something different with her. I wasn't sure what, but I didn't expect it would be what she did. Like I said earlier, I thought it was lazy and kind of obvious... I actually conceded that she would succumb to Targeryan madness (which I also thought was overblown in Westeros as only a few of the Tagreryan rulers seemed to actually suffer from it) after the previous episode when she lost both Rhaegal and Missandei. People are confusing what they wanted to happen with good/bad writing. The same way Star Wars fans did with Luke in the Last Jedi. The truncated nature of these last two seasons definitely didn't help in showing Danerys' turn and didn't fully prepare a lot of folks who for whatever reason were taken completely off guard by what she did for whatever reason, but to say that it was out of character for her to do it? No.  

[Amazatron]

3 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 Jesus christ... I just don't know what to say to that other than this. Just because you don't like where a character ends up doesn't mean it's "wrong". Danerys could have ALWAYS went in this direction as she has always been displayed as being ruthless and she's been wanting to bring "fire and blood" to her enemies in Westeros since before she even got there. It would have been out of character for sure if Jon or Tyrion were to do something like this, but her? No. My issue was that they were so heavy handed in telegraphing a potential turn to "mad-queen" especially in recent episodes that I thought they were going to do something different with her. I wasn't sure what, but I didn't expect it would be what she did. Like I said earlier, I thought it was lazy and kind of obvious... I actually conceded that she would succumb to Targeryan madness (which I also thought was overblown in Westeros as only a few of the Tagreryan rulers seemed to actually suffer from it) after the previous episode when she lost both Rhaegal and Missandei. People are confusing what they wanted to happen with good/bad writing. The same way Star Wars fans did with Luke. 

 

Yeah, you didn’t watch the video.

[legend]

3 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 Jesus christ... I just don't know what to say to that other than this. Just because you don't like where a character ends up doesn't mean it's "wrong". Danerys could have ALWAYS went in this direction as she has always been displayed as being ruthless and she's been wanting to bring "fire and blood" to her enemies in Westeros since before she even got there. It would have been out of character for sure if Jon or Tyrion were to do something like this, but her? No. My issue was that they were so heavy handed in telegraphing a potential turn to "mad-queen" especially in recent episodes that I thought they were going to do something different with her. I wasn't sure what, but I didn't expect it would be what she did. Like I said earlier, I thought it was lazy and kind of obvious... I actually conceded that she would succumb to Targeryan madness (which I also thought was overblown in Westeros as only a few of the Tagreryan rulers seemed to actually suffer from it) after the previous episode when she lost both Rhaegal and Missandei. People are confusing what they wanted to happen with good/bad writing. The same way Star Wars fans did with Luke. 

 

 

I largely agree with you; if someone is upset that it went this way at all, that seems really silly. But I do think there is valid criticism against the "writing" or maybe we should say "story telling?" in that they so rushed this season that people didn't really understand why she did what she did in that moment. Better story telling would have made her internal workings a bit more clear so that it felt more like an inevitable tragedy than "really? now?" Maybe they needed to spend more time showing us the toll everything was taking on her than they did. I'm not sure. I'm not a writer  but it definitely felt too abbreviated to have the impact and recognition it ought to have had.

[skillzdadirecta]

24 minutes ago, Amazatron said:

 

Yeah, you didn’t watch the video.

I didn't say I did. That title alone was enough for me to not watch it and I wasn't responding to it directly anyway.  I was agreeing with @Mercury33

[skillzdadirecta]

2 minutes ago, legend said:

 

 

I largely agree with you; if someone is upset that it went this way at all, that seems really silly. But I do think there is valid criticism against the "writing" or maybe we should say "story telling?" in that they so rushed this season that people didn't really understand why she did what she did in that moment. Better story telling would have made her internal workings a bit more clear so that it felt more like an inevitable tragedy than "really? now?" Maybe they needed to spend more time showing us the toll everything was taking on her than they did. I'm not sure. I'm not a writer  but it definitely felt too abbreviated to have the impact and recognition it ought to have had.

 

I edited my post and added essentially what you just said about the abbreviated nature of these last two seasons being a reason why so many folks are having an issue with what was clearly an obvious, if not desirable outcome for a beloved character.

[Greatoneshere]

9 hours ago, Brick said:

I'm not sure if I fully buy that video of the cast being disappointed in the final season. It could also be taken as nervous laughter because of all the dark, depressing shit that's going down this season. 

 

I mean, you could. Except Varys has since come out and literally said things. They're never going to just come out and shit on the show, but subtext is everything. I'd argue your interpretation is very generous. They should be ecstatic about the final season, yet all of them look like they barely want to talk about it. 

 

Kit Harrington literally says: "disappointed" sees the interviewers face, goes: "uhh . . . I mean epic" and then goes: "it could be either of those, who knows". What kind of answer is that over one of the most popular shows of all time? 

[Ghost_MH]

The actors and no less susceptible than the audience at hoping for a happier ending than we're likely to get. Hell, they may be even more desperate for a happy ending if they've fallen in love with their own characters and wish the best for them.

[Amazatron]

OMG, stop talking about not getting a “happy ending”, that’s not what the issue is...

 

 

[Ghost_MH]

4 minutes ago, Amazatron said:

OMG, stop talking about not getting a “happy ending”, that’s not what the issue is...

 

 

 

That video clip does nothing but reinforce what I just said.

 

I don't think anybody in this thread is arguing that this season hasn't been rushed. It really has and everybody knows it. We'll just have to accept that. Once that's out of the way, you're left with everything else. Many have, for years now, been meming the shit out of how Dany is going to go Mad Queen. That didn't come out of nowhere. Book readers predicted this outcome before the show even caught up.

 

The death of the Night King is one of those things people complained about. There's no way the living would manage to keep him at bay for multiple days. He was getting to Bran that night no matter what. With that said, he either wins and mankind of defeated or he loses and the story continues. I don't know what middle ground there people were hoping for...other than their head canon epic fight with Jon. That's small potatoes, though. Jon isn't the better fighter here, so that's not even worth discussing.

 

Then with Dany burning King's Landing, you end up with a similar scenario. Missandei doesn't get killed. Varys doesn't try to kill her because he doesn't see her cracking. Cool. What next? Long drawn out war with either side winning. There scorpions were never going to take out Drogon just because it could take out the smaller dragons. Dany's forces win that fight no matter what and they get through it quickly.

 

If she peacefully accepts the Lannister surrender, what then? Same offer she made the Tullys? Burn Cercei after a trial? The series ending with a trial and execution with the implication that everyone lived happily ever after wouldn't sit right for this series. I'm trying to figure out where people were hoping this show would go.

 

Like I said. The actors are no less susceptible than anyone else at being disappointed that their characters too a turn they'd rather not. Posting a clip with actors not being really happy with the way the show ends is pretty meaningless.

[Amazatron]

44 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I didn't say I did. That title alone was enough for me to not watch it and I wasn't responding to it directly anyway.  I was agreeing with @Mercury33

 

Wow, ok.  He literally addresses what you’re complaining about in the beginning.  But sure, keep agreeing with the guy going “la la la,  not listening”.

[Amazatron]

I was addressing Brick saying the “he doesn’t fully buy the actors being disappointed in the season”.

[Firewithin]

1 hour ago, thewhyteboar said:

i love these.  i knew it was coming at the end and it was still good.

[Guest]

Actors on the whole haven’t historically shown great understanding of storytelling. That’s why most struggle when they try and move into writing and/or directing

[Mercury33]

19 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

That video clip does nothing but reinforce what I just said.

 

I don't think anybody in this thread is arguing that this season hasn't been rushed. It really has and everybody knows it. We'll just have to accept that. Once that's out of the way, you're left with everything else. Many have, for years now, been meming the shit out of how Dany is going to go Mad Queen. That didn't come out of nowhere. Book readers predicted this outcome before the show even caught up.

 

The death of the Night King is one of those things people complained about. There's no way the living would manage to keep him at bay for multiple days. He was getting to Bran that night no matter what. With that said, he either wins and mankind of defeated or he loses and the story continues. I don't know what middle ground there people were hoping for...other than their head canon epic fight with Jon. That's small potatoes, though. Jon isn't the better fighter here, so that's not even worth discussing.

 

Then with Dany burning King's Landing, you end up with a similar scenario. Missandei doesn't get killed. Varys doesn't try to kill her because he doesn't see her cracking. Cool. What next? Long drawn out war with either side winning. There scorpions were never going to take out Drogon just because it could take out the smaller dragons. Dany's forces win that fight no matter what and they get through it quickly.

 

If she peacefully accepts the Lannister surrender, what then? Same offer she made the Tullys? Burn Cercei after a trial? The series ending with a trial and execution with the implication that everyone lived happily ever after wouldn't sit right for this series. I'm trying to figure out where people were hoping this show would go.

 

Like I said. The actors are no less susceptible than anyone else at being disappointed that their characters too a turn they'd rather not. Posting a clip with actors not being really happy with the way the show ends is pretty meaningless.

 

Agree with a lot of this.  At least in the Star Wars "Debates" people were able to clarify where and what they wanted to story to be and who they wanted Luke to be.  I haven't seen anyone in the GoT discussions be able to see where else the story should have gone or how it should have been done differently.  Just "ThAtS OuT oF ChArAcTer!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[skillzdadirecta]

34 minutes ago, Amazatron said:

 

Wow, ok.  He literally addresses what you’re complaining about in the beginning.  But sure, keep agreeing with the guy going “la la la,  not listening”.

 

Is that what @Mercury33 is doing? The title of the video is just flat out wrong and based on his, and to a lesser extent, @SFLUFAN 's reaction to the video, do I really want to spend 18 minutes watching it? I'm gonna say no. I saw merc's response and at first was like "Someone really didn't say that did they?" Then I saw that that was the title of dude's video and I was like "Nope, I'm good". 

 

The fairest critique of the show and how it is turning out is the shortened seasons and episode counts not doing the series any favors. That's fair and understandable. Some of this other hysteria? Na. But I even get that... people love the show and love these characters and are heavily invested in them. 

[Emblazon]

Daenerys in episode 5 = Anakin in Revenge of the Sith

 

You know the turn is coming, and you know it's supposed to happen, but it just felt entirely unearned. 

 

[SuperSpreader]

2 minutes ago, Emblazon said:

Daenerys in episode 5 = Anakin in Revenge of the Sith

 

You know the turn is coming, and you know it's supposed to happen, but it just felt entirely unearned. 

 

You almost want it to be a series of decisions where it's like "oh shit I guess I'm the bad guy now"

[Ghost_MH]

8 minutes ago, Emblazon said:

Daenerys in episode 5 = Anakin in Revenge of the Sith

 

You know the turn is coming, and you know it's supposed to happen, but it just felt entirely unearned. 

 

 

How can you know something is going to happen while that something also being entirely unearned?

[Chris-]

The only reason people want to call it 'unearned' is because it forces them to reconcile with the awful shit Dany has done that was previously seen as 'cool'. In hindsight her past actions look entirely different, and most Dany fans don't want to admit they cheered on when she fed innocent people to her dragon and proudly burned people alive.

[Amazatron]

14 minutes ago, Chris- said:

The only reason people want to call it 'unearned' is because it forces them to reconcile with the awful shit Dany has done that was previously seen as 'cool'. In hindsight her past actions look entirely different, and most Dany fans don't want to admit they cheered on when she fed innocent people to her dragon and proudly burned people alive.

 

What innocent people?

 

She also threw her dragons in a dungeon for burning a peasant's girl to death while they were roaming.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

14 minutes ago, Chris- said:

The only reason people want to call it 'unearned' is because it forces them to reconcile with the awful shit Dany has done that was previously seen as 'cool'. In hindsight her past actions look entirely different, and most Dany fans don't want to admit they cheered on when she fed innocent people to her dragon and proudly burned people alive.

Her character's conclusion is perhaps the one that is the most "earned" (relatively speaking).

[Chris-]

2 minutes ago, Amazatron said:

 

What innocent people?

 

She also threw her dragons in a dungeon for burning a peasant's girl to death while they were roaming.

 

Season 5, Episode 5. After the Sons of the Harpy attacked Grey Worm and Ser Barristan, she summarily had one of the nobles fed to her dragons to scare the other great families. 

[skillzdadirecta]

2 minutes ago, Amazatron said:

 

What innocent people?

 

She also threw her dragons in a dungeon for burning a peasant's girl to death while they were roaming.

She fed one of The Masters to her dragons when she didn't know of he was guilty or not... she didn't give a shit. She also crucified that one guy's father who was an advocate for fair treatment of slaves in that society. She was ruthless when she felt like it warranted it. She wanted to do to the slave cities what she eventually did to king's Landing. Tyrion kept talking her down.

[Chris-]

I have to ask it again, what show have some of you guys been watching? The show has spent her entire character arc dealing with the fact that (1) her claim to the throne is flimsy-to-nonexistent, (2) that she is for all intents and purposes leading a foreign invasion, and (3) that she is engaging in mental gymnastics ('break the wheel', LOL) to justify her actions. What happened in the last episode is all of those concepts colliding and leading to the most plainly logical conclusion: that she is complete shit and will stop at nothing to rule.

[SuperSpreader]

I wonder if in the books she just builds an empire across the water and invades with nonWesterosi armies - seems like the best way to do it?

 

1 part sea, 1 part north, 1 part sw attack? Leave only the road North clear for escape but cut them off in the distance.

 

If you time it right the other armies wouldn't have time to come to aid King's landing. 

[Kal-El814]

She also burned those Dothraki women alive and made the entire Dothraki culture her bloodriders, which means if she dies they’re obligated to kill themselves, or avenge her and then kill themselves.