Amazatron Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Cleganebowl lived up to the hype, but I'm not sure anyone asked for the conveniently timed CerseiFuckerbowl (aka MauryPovichbowl). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 50 minutes ago, Massdriver said: There's no need to be snobbish. If you don't think I understand what the term arc means, explain why you think that and why I can't say he had a shitty arc? I don't know who I'm being clumped with here when you say "guys". I'm being snobbish? You got snippy as hell with that last post... I never said you had to like what they did with him. I was just explaining why it worked and why it was true to his "arc" as you put it. I don't like what they did with Dany but I get it. I'll never say that it "doesn't work" or it "doesn't make sense" because it fits with where her is character and what direction they had been taking her for the last three seasons. There's a difference between not liking something and invalidating it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firewithin Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 i was going to riot if the Hound got Oberyn'd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatGamble Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 5 hours ago, LazyPiranha said: From where? Even if we assume that Tyrion's plan implies that they pick up a bigger, better boat later, it still requires Jamie and Cersei the row out of the bay then past the iron fleet in broad daylight. Also it's not a matter of Jamie figuring out how to use a rowboat, it's that a rowboat requires to working hands. If you can't grip one oar because you don't have a hand, you're going to be useless. Tyrion told Jamie specifically, “the fleet won’t be there”. i have to admit, I like Jamie’s arc. It would have been cool had he stayed with brienne, sure. But I liked the idea of him accepting who he was, and dying the way he told Tyrion he wanted to long ago. “Holding the woman I love.” Sure, it’s a sick, twisted love, but I really liked watching him finally accept himself for who he was. It was an extremely interesting part of his arc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Jaime's character "whatever it is" is perhaps the most well-crafted part of the series because it avoids the eye-rollingly boring and predictable "redemption" bullshit and it encapsulates the pure Nietzschean truth of "becoming who we are". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercury33 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 17 minutes ago, Massdriver said: There's no need to be snobbish. If you don't think I understand what the term arc means, explain why you think that and why I can't say he had a shitty arc. I don't know who I'm being clumped with here when you say "guys". Hes not being snobbish. And it's totally cool to not like where Jamies arc ended up. I'm not a fan of how useless Tyrion and Jon Snow have become. But to say that it's a bad arc implies that it was executed improperly and it wasn't. From a technical standpoint they created an extremely complex character with a lot of layers and a story that came full circle while constantly throwing back to foreshadowing from earlier events. Technically its a very good arc. But of course it's cool to not like it. I think that's probably where the disconnect was. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatGamble Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Mercury33 said: Hes not being snobbish. And it's totally cool to not like where Jamies arc ended up. I'm not a fan of how useless Tyrion and Jon Snow have become. But to say that it's a bad arc implies that it was executed improperly and it wasn't. From a technical standpoint they created an extremely complex character with a lot of layers and a story that came full circle while constantly throwing back to foreshadowing from earlier events. Technically its a very good arc. But of course it's cool to not like it. I think that's probably where the disconnect was. Seriously, it was fantastic. I loved it. I don’t know why everyone wants a cliche ending for Jamie and Brianne. This made him, and his death, far more interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said: Jaime's character "whatever it is" is perhaps the most well-crafted part of the series because it avoids the eye-rollingly boring and predictable "redemption" bullshit and it encapsulates the pure Nietzschean truth of "becoming who we are". Also that old addage "The things we love can be our downfall." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said: Also that old addage "The things we love can be our downfall." "The things we [do for] love can be our downfall." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Jamie’s story is interesting to me because despite his best efforts to change, he just can’t. He is who he is and he would rather die that person than live as the man he isn’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneticBlueprint Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 This is GRRM's ending. Can't wait to read /r/asoiaf when/if the books come out and watch the whole sub do a 180 because reasons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Practically everything about these endings "makes sense" within the thematic context of the universe of the series. Hell, they make sense in OUR universe. It's just that their obviously truncated execution isn't giving them the necessary "weight" that they deserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercury33 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said: Practically everything about these endings "makes sense" within the thematic context of the the universe of the series. Hell, they make sense in OUR universe. It's just that their obviously truncated execution isn't giving them the necessary "weight" that they deserve. Whelp, that pretty much summed up the last 25 pages of posts in two sentences. I think we're done here. We can all go home lol. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneticBlueprint Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 I don't think anybody wouldn't love to have more episodes. But when you go in knowing that there aren't going to be the typical 10 episodes you should level-set a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercury33 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 With all the extra added minutes to each episode, how close are the total minutes of this season to a regular season? I feel like its probably not that much less? I think they needed another entire season to end this show they way we would have all liked. But, despite feeling a bit rushed at times, I'm loving it and feel like they're only inches away from achieving the impossible and sticking the landing when it comes to ending the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 56 minutes ago, Massdriver said: It seemed to me that Jaime could have allowed the innocent people to die while also saving his father. Jaime chose to save the people. He isn't happy about being judged as an oathbreaker, but that doesn't make what he did any less significant. He saved a shit load of people, he had some level of concern for them based on this quote from season 3. Now it turns out that he didn't care, but that wasn't the impression they left us with. If nothing else, Jaime is a very conflicted person, and the show decided to destroy a very cool redemption arc at the last minute. They didn't have to. If you like it, that's great. But don't pretend like I have to like it or think it was a good character arc. It actually was shit. Jaime went from being one of my favorite characters to one of the least interesting. Agreed - the books are much clearer on the slow path to redemption but the show has waffled on it for seasons. Jaime was one of my favorite characters but his decision to go back to Cersei yet again ruins a lot of great things they've done with his character. 1 hour ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said: I liked the little finger death. The townhall tribunal, and Arya swooping in to slit his throat. All in all it was one of my favorite and satisfying deaths in the show. My favorite being Joffry’s painful death. Except for the fact that his behavior in that entire season didn't mesh with earlier seasons of him. He would never have gotten trapped in that way, that easily, in the way that he did. It was very inconsistent with his character. He was simply a smarter character than that and they didn't arrange for a believable way to defeat such a smart character so they just did whatever. They did the same to Roose Bolton and now Varys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 13 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said: Practically everything about these endings "makes sense" within the thematic context of the universe of the series. Hell, they make sense in OUR universe. It's just that their obviously truncated execution isn't giving them the necessary "weight" that they deserve. The show may be truncated but the books are bloated beyond belief. As i remember the last two books weren't even all that well received by book readers, book four in particular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Just now, skillzdadirecta said: The show may be truncated but the books are bloated beyond belief. As i remember the last two books weren't even all that well received by book readers, book four in particular. Trust me, I ain't defending the book series -- which will ABSOLUTELY NEVER be completed -- by implication! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercury33 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 minute ago, skillzdadirecta said: The show may be truncated but the books are bloated beyond belief. As i remember the last two books weren't even all that well received by book readers, book four in particular. I tried to read them once. My god is it verbose just for the sake of it. I couldn't get through 100 pages. Someone should take all extra shit he crammed in there by trying to be Tolkien turn it into illustrations and give me a graphic novel version of the story. I'd read the shit out of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 24 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said: This is GRRM's ending. Can't wait to read /r/asoiaf when/if the books come out and watch the whole sub do a 180 because reasons. I think one difference will be (assuming it actually gets done...which it probably won't) that things make a little more sense, and there is less happening for the sake of plot. I don't doubt that the major points will be the same, however. But much like how Jaime has sex with Cersei in both the show and books (but it's rape in the show, and consensual in the books), the meaning behind each point could be quite different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mercury33 said: I tried to read them once. My god is it verbose just for the sake of it. I couldn't get through 100 pages. Someone should take all extra shit he crammed in there by trying to be Tolkien turn it into illustrations and give me a graphic novel version of the story. I'd read the shit out of that. Dark Horse has been publishing comic book adaptations of the books for years now and there are several collected trades I believe. They aren't that good from what I remember. The art kinda sucked. But yeah, the books are such a slog that I roll my eyes whenever book fans try to laud them as some kind of literary masterpieces. When I read them, I was working at a job that had a long commute by train to and from work. That was the only way I was able to get through those books. GRRM is an incredible world builder but his writing style? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 I’m not against where Jaime ended up, but, let’s stop calling it an arc... it was a circle. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 27 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: Agreed - the books are much clearer on the slow path to redemption but the show has waffled on it for seasons. Jaime was one of my favorite characters but his decision to go back to Cersei yet again ruins a lot of great things they've done with his character. The show had gone back and forth on Jaime, but it seemed as if they permanently course corrected a couple of seasons ago until the last 2 episodes. I'm surprised that so many people actually like it or think it's innovative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Massdriver said: The show had gone back and forth on Jaime, but it seemed as if they permanently course corrected a couple of seasons ago until the last 2 episodes. I'm surprised that so many people actually like it or think it's innovative. Yeah that last pivot was . . . bad. It doesn't derail everything about him but yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 28 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: Except for the fact that his behavior in that entire season didn't mesh with earlier seasons of him. He would never have gotten trapped in that way, that easily, in the way that he did. It was very inconsistent with his character. He was simply a smarter character than that and they didn't arrange for a believable way to defeat such a smart character so they just did whatever. They did the same to Roose Bolton and now Varys. It looked and felt to me that what really did Littlefinger in was he got too complacent, too comfortable, because he thought he controlled Sansa. He thought he had Sansa in the palm of his hand. He thought Sansa too naive, too reliant on him, too beholden to him to get the better of him. And Sansa let him think he was still manipulating him. He underestimated Sansa, had no idea how much she had grown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said: It looked and felt to me that what really did Littlefinger in was he got too complacent, too comfortable, because he thought he controlled Sansa. He thought he had Sansa in the palm of his hand. He thought Sansa too naive, too reliant on him, too beholden to him to get the better of him. And Sansa let him think he was still manipulating him. He underestimated Sansa, had no idea how much she had grown. He also didn't know what she went through with Ramsey because he had no idea Ramsey was a sadist. He thought Sansa would be able to marry and control Ramsey which would place The North under his control by extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said: It looked and felt to me that what really did Littlefinger in was he got too complacent, too comfortable, because he thought he controlled Sansa. He thought he had Sansa in the palm of his hand. He thought Sansa too naive, too reliant on him, too beholden to him to get the better of him. And Sansa let him think he was still manipulating him. He underestimated Sansa, had no idea how much she had grown. Right, agreed, but that's my point - earlier Littlefinger underestimates no one. Sansa tricking him felt like a bridge too far to me. He may have had feelings for her but he was never that blind to potential threats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 BTW, speaking of circles, I remember reading or hearing via interview that GRRM preferences “circular storytelling” where it ends in a way reminiscent of how it began. That could mean two things, maybe... 1.) Jon doesn’t actually want the throne yet ends up on the throne, much like how Robert didn’t actually want the throne (he wanted Lyanna) yet ended up on it. 2.) Jon and Danny kill each other or something and Gendry takes the throne, probably with Arya also dying in the fight. It started with a Baratheon who loved a dead Stark on the throne, and it ends that way. Probably wrong but Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 I am willing to tolerate a lot, and I still love this show and the world and have a lot of respect for what the show did. I'm not here to shit on it overall (just some parts of the last 2 seasons!). I am disappointed with how it is wrapping up, and I am not alone. I am not one of the ones shitposting on reddit though and don't think it deserves the hatred it's getting. Disappointment is perfectly okay for what they are feeding us right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Massdriver said: I am willing to tolerate a lot, and I still love this show and the world and have a lot of respect for what the show did. I'm not here to shit on it overall (just some parts of the last 2 seasons!). I am disappointed with how it is wrapping up, and I am not alone. I am not one of the ones shitposting on reddit though and don't think it deserves the hatred it's getting. Fair enough man and sorry I was a dick earlier. I was reacting to your reaction... it's all good. No show is worth getting all up in a tizzy over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 3 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said: Fair enough man and sorry I was a dick earlier. I was reacting to your reaction... it's all good. No show is worth getting all up in a tizzy over. I added another line to that post. I feel disappointed, but not hatred or extreme dislike. It was like I was let down. I'm sorry if I came across as a dick as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Massdriver said: I added another line to thread post. I feel disappointed, but not hatred or extreme dislike. It was like I was let down. It's definitely your prerogative to be disappointed... I HATED how Lost ended despite loving the show but a lot of people loved it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimpleG Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Spork3245 said: 2.) Jon and Danny kill each other or something and Gendry takes the throne, probably with Arya also dying in the fight. It started with a Baratheon who loved a dead Stark on the throne, and it ends that way I think its possible but with Arya and Gendry ruling together. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Again, I’m fine with how Jaime wrapped up, but, (I think) this video I watched a few weeks back really opened my eyes to Jaime as a character and his sense of honor and who/what he wanted to be/become. It does combine book and show elements You can skip right to 3:50 Obviously, the Night King bit (unfortunately) never came to be, with Cersei basically becoming Nissa Nissa and Ice actually being Light Bringer (now Widow’s Wail and Oath Keeper), but the breakdown of Jaime and his sense of honor is very well done, IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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