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Dune - Official Thread of Spice, Sandworms, and Sleepers Awakening

CitizenVectron
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SoberChef

SoberChef

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I'll be honest, the original film I watched maybe once as a young child, never read the novel this is based upon either. I'm absolutely clueless about what this is all about. That being said, between the cinematography and THAT FREAKING STELLAR CAST as well as a hell of an accomplished filmmaker, I am a little hype for it. However, I wasn't that big on his version of Blade Runner ... pretty, of course but without much substance in my opinion. Perhaps I just don't "get it"!?

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Greatoneshere

Greatoneshere

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52 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

This is an interesting take, and why I think there are more important representation fights than “wrong color of Latin actor” still happening today.

 

 

Eh, I've known from the beginning they didn't go the full Zetsunni Runners (inspired by Sunni Muslims) since the book takes place thousands of years into the future (I say this as a Pakistani American raised devout Sunni Muslim). By then, it'd be multicultural. So long as the aesthetic, design, etc. of the culture skews Middle Eastern, that'll be more important. They shot the movie in Jordan, a Middle Eastern country, so I'd be super surprised that Villeneuve wasn't fully aware of this aspect of the Fremen. It's super integral, and being French Canadian whose best movie is about Muslims (Incendies), I don't see how he couldn't know. It's somewhat of a shame because it was such an opportunity to cast Islam and Muslim peoples in a beautiful light, given the book position on the story. But, that could still happen, we'll see.


Sometimes, the reality of life is you cast big actors who are at least minorities. As soon as they cast Javier Bardem (Spanish) for Stilgar and Zendaya (half black, half white) for Chani, I knew they were going the pseudo-Dorne route (from Game of Thrones - at least that had Alexander Siddig) of "this is basically Arab/Muslims/Middle Easterners" but with a diverse cast of brown-ish actors than, like, real Muslim actors from those countries. Someday the world will learn Central and South Americans (and Spaniard) actors are not the same brown as Muslims/Arabia/Middle East/South Asia actors. Someday . . . 

 

Hey, at least it's not LOTR where the human armies "from the East" all look darker and browner and come in on Oliphants who all side with Sauron. Like, thanks guys, Muslims/brown people are the bad ones again yay. I'm sure a lot of the background Fremen will be brown actors of correct tone and vintage, which is what usually happens, since apparently my race and ethnicity aren't pretty enough for those mug shot roles! :p 

 

Edit: The back half of the novel involves the Fremen much more, with many more Fremen characters, so perhaps the second movie will rectify this.

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CitizenVectron

CitizenVectron

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5 hours ago, Chris- said:

What’s up with all the hologram looking stuff?

 

From what I remember, personal shields completely protect against fast-moving projectiles and lasers, so the best way to penetrate them is a blade (slower the better). It's basically a reason to allow cool-looking sword/knife fights in the future. One of the reasons people call Dune the Star Wars for adults.

 

2 hours ago, johnny said:

So should I read the book? Does this movie cover the first book? Or several? 

 

It seems to cover roughly the first 50-60% of the book, though I wouldn't be surprised if some plot elements are moved around a bit to help. While the first book is (imo) the best, the later books introduce the most interesting philosophical stuff. The entire main philosophical question of the whole series is around predestination and use of future-seeing (and defense against it), and how a secret group has been working for thousands of years to install a never-ending authority on the galaxy, but the first book barely touches on that, or how they were wrong. In fact, the message of the first book is basically upended and that the entire idea was a mistake from the beginning...and how Paul's kid is the true golden child that corrects history and prepares for an unending "perfect" future.

 

It's some heavy stuff, and the writing isn't always great, but the first three to four books for sure are worth it. Just ignore everything written by Frank Herbert's son. Everything.

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Greatoneshere

Greatoneshere

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10 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

From what I remember, personal shields completely protect against fast-moving projectiles and lasers, so the best way to penetrate them is a blade (slower the better). It's basically a reason to allow cool-looking sword/knife fights in the future. One of the reasons people call Dune the Star Wars for adults.

 

 

It seems to cover roughly the first 50-60% of the book, though I wouldn't be surprised if some plot elements are moved around a bit to help. While the first book is (imo) the best, the later books introduce the most interesting philosophical stuff. The entire main philosophical question of the whole series is around predestination and use of future-seeing (and defense against it), and how a secret group has been working for thousands of years to install a never-ending authority on the galaxy, but the first book barely touches on that, or how they were wrong. In fact, the message of the first book is basically upended and that the entire idea was a mistake from the beginning...and how Paul's kid is the true golden child that corrects history and prepares for an unending "perfect" future.

 

It's some heavy stuff, and the writing isn't always great, but the first three to four books for sure are worth it. Just ignore everything written by Frank Herbert's son. Everything.

 

I agree with your breakdown, but would argue the later books are much better, just more esoteric. I actually think Herbert's writing got better with time. And yes, avoid everything after the six Frank Herbert written books. To me, his fourth book, God Emperor of Dune, may be one of the best existential books ever written.

 

And yes, the whole point of the first book is to upend the idea of the traditional white saviour narrative. I hope people see that once the second movie comes out.

 

 

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Mercury33

Mercury33

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23 hours ago, johnny said:

So should I read the book? Does this movie cover the first book? Or several? 

 

You should read it regardless of whether or not you see the movie.  Its fucking incredible.

 

And yeah from I remember about those shields is that the slower you go the easier it is to penetrate the shield.

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Chris-

Chris-

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23 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

From what I remember, personal shields completely protect against fast-moving projectiles and lasers, so the best way to penetrate them is a blade (slower the better). It's basically a reason to allow cool-looking sword/knife fights in the future. One of the reasons people call Dune the Star Wars for adults.

 

So what if a sword is thrown (and is thus a projectile), will it penetrate the shield? Why not design guns that shoot beneath the shields' protection threshold? Moreover they have the technology to create shields that block lasers, but their technology is insufficient to create shields that block blades? What a stupid book/movie!

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Nokt

Nokt

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36 minutes ago, Chris- said:

 

So what if a sword is thrown (and is thus a projectile), will it penetrate the shield? Why not design guns that shoot beneath the shields' protection threshold? Moreover they have the technology to create shields that block lasers, but their technology is insufficient to create shields that block blades? What a stupid book/movie!

According to the wiki it’s 6-9 cm per second and could be set by the user. Apparently they have to let atmospheric gasses through the shield otherwise the user would suffocate. 

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Greatoneshere

Greatoneshere

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3 hours ago, Chris- said:

 

So what if a sword is thrown (and is thus a projectile), will it penetrate the shield? Why not design guns that shoot beneath the shields' protection threshold? Moreover they have the technology to create shields that block lasers, but their technology is insufficient to create shields that block blades? What a stupid book/movie!

 

The books explain why technology is the way it is in great detail. This is a post-science fiction world, where future tech that the humans of their present use but don't quite understand, etc. Not sure if you meant this in jest or not but it is explained in the books. It's a unique universe with very strange and unique ways of combat. :p 

 

1 hour ago, Mercury33 said:


That’s super cool. Doesn’t inspire a lot of hope though lol 

 

I actually thought it made the former two look better than they actually are haha. To be fair, I never minded the Sci-Fi miniseries. It's as good as that could have been, I think.

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