Trump ‘at this moment’ opposes deal to avert shutdown, wants more border funding

[SaysWho?]

 

@Chairslinger

@Anathema-

@Jason

@GeneticBlueprint

@Keyser_Soze

@legend

 

Fuck, I'm blanking out on who else was in the thread. I know our fallen markot and apoc were but it makes no sense to tag them.  

[RedSoxFan9]

 

[Jason]

1 hour ago, SaysWho? said:

 

In addition to this idiotic AP tweet, the shutdown started under Republican control.

 

bOtH sIdEs

 

A top AP editor recently complained she can't tell what's news and what isn't with regard to the Mueller investigation. 

[Jason]

 

[Jason]

Soooooo presidential.

 

 

 

[Keyser_Soze]

2 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Fuck, I'm blanking out on who else was in the thread. I know our fallen markot and apoc were but it makes no sense to tag them.  

 

Me ya jerk!

[SaysWho?]

5 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Me ya jerk!

 

You've been belatedly added.

[Keyser_Soze]

1 minute ago, SaysWho? said:

 

You've been belatedly added.

 

😘

[SuperSpreader]

23 minutes ago, Jason said:

Soooooo presidential.

 

 

 

What

[SaysWho?]

1 minute ago, 2user1cup said:

What in the actual fuck

 

ftfy

[Jason]

 

[SuperSpreader]

Republicans aren't gonna do shit, they're gonna use their shutdown to crucify the Dems 

[Jason]

40 minutes ago, Jason said:

Soooooo presidential.

 

 

 

 

Looks like he deleted it already.

 

 

 

[skillzdadirecta]

3 hours ago, PaladinSolo said:

 

So McConnell's strategy of staying out of it is working for the Senate Republicans?

[nublood]

So has there ever been an explanation why Schumer, Pelosi, Hilary, Obama, etc.previously wanted a wall and better border infrastructure, but now they suddenly don't?

 

 

[skillzdadirecta]

22 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Fucking empty suit... that dude is blander than A Lettuce and Mayo sandwich on white bread with the crust cut off.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

1 minute ago, nublood said:

So has there ever been an explanation why Schumer, Pelosi, Hilary, Obama, etc previously wanted a wall, but now they suddenly don't?

 

 

Border security is not a wall

[ort]

4 minutes ago, nublood said:

So has there ever been an explanation why Schumer, Pelosi, Hilary, Obama, etc.previously wanted a wall and better border infrastructure, but now they suddenly don't?

 

 

 

Because that's just a line of bullshit Donald Trump keep repeating in the hopes that his followers are stupid enough to just accept it on face value without actually taking the time to dive into any of the nuance (and they are).

 

There are places along the border where walls would help. They have walls. Border security is something that is good. An actually 2000 mile long physical wall makes no sense and it never has. It's just a symbol of division for cruel and small minded fuckwits and would actually provide no real benefit.

[skillzdadirecta]

5 minutes ago, nublood said:

So has there ever been an explanation why Schumer, Pelosi, Hilary, Obama, etc previously wanted a wall, but now they suddenly don't?

 

 

They never wanted a wall, that's factually incorrect.  They were for fencing in areas where it made sense in addition to more agents,  drones and immigration judges... you know, a complete border strategy. Trump came in talking about a literally wall across the whole southern border that would be taller than the great wall of China and made of Solid Concrete... which was always nonsense. But he doubled down on it and is now trying to walk it back to what everyone originally agreed on in the first place.

[nublood]

I guess I don't know the difference between a "wall" and a "barrier" then. Because the Dems (Sanders, Clinton, Obama, Biden, Schumer etc.) voted both in 2006 and 2013 for measures improving fencing and barriers to keep out illegal immigrants. So the stance they're taking now seems to be in stark contrast and quite frankly pretty hypocritical.

[Jason]

5 minutes ago, nublood said:

I guess I don't know the difference between a "wall" and a "barrier" then. Because the Dems (Sanders, Clinton, Obama, Biden, Schumer etc.) voted both in 2006 and 2013 for measures improving fencing and barriers to keep out illegal immigrants. So the stance they're taking now seems to be in stark contrast and quite frankly pretty hypocritical.

 

 

[SaysWho?]

16 minutes ago, nublood said:

So has there ever been an explanation why Schumer, Pelosi, Hilary, Obama, etc.previously wanted a wall and better border infrastructure, but now they suddenly don't?

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, nublood said:

I guess I don't know the difference between a "wall" and a "barrier" then. Because the Dems (Sanders, Clinton, Obama, Biden, Schumer etc.) voted both in 2006 and 2013 for measures improving fencing and barriers to keep out illegal immigrants. So the stance they're taking now seems to be in stark contrast and quite frankly pretty hypocritical.

 

There's a fence on the border. A wall would not only cost money that he hasn't explained how he'd pay for (for some reason, he doesn't get asked this despite blowing up the debt during an economic upturn), but he'd have to use eminent domain to set it up to take private property away to set up something that will be shitty.

 

The hypocritical stance is both Democrats and Republicans in the Senate unanimously passing a spending bill that now Republicans don't want to pass because they view themselves as an arm of the president into of their own branch.

 

If he wants a wall, he needs to do it himself, not throw a temper tantrum and shut down the government over something he was going to sign anyway.

[Ghost_MH]

9 minutes ago, nublood said:

I guess I don't know the difference between a "wall" and a "barrier" then. Because the Dems (Sanders, Clinton, Obama, Biden, Schumer etc.) voted both in 2006 and 2013 for measures improving fencing and barriers to keep out illegal immigrants. So the stance they're taking now seems to be in stark contrast and quite frankly pretty hypocritical.

 

There's a difference between shoring up the wall that's already in place and using eminent domain to seize private land and build a wall there. We're talking about building a wall right down the middle of ranches and other protected lands. We're also tlaking about building a wall in places where one was never needed because natural obstacles already exist.

[Keyser_Soze]

Maybe set up a savings account just for wall money. He'd probably have it pretty quickly.

[skillzdadirecta]

13 minutes ago, nublood said:

I guess I don't know the difference between a "wall" and a "barrier" then. Because the Dems (Sanders, Clinton, Obama, Biden, Schumer etc.) voted both in 2006 and 2013 for measures improving fencing and barriers to keep out illegal immigrants. So the stance they're taking now seems to be in stark contrast and quite frankly pretty hypocritical.

Those are the talking points that Trump and his allies want to sell to the pubc5and again,  it's just not true. As that tweet that was posted earlier shows, he was talking about something entirely different than what was being discussed and than what was already there. He's made that clear on many occasions but he's now trying to walk it back. And it seems at least for some, it's working.

 

@Jason

[Jason]

 

[finaljedi]

25 minutes ago, nublood said:

I guess I don't know the difference between a "wall" and a "barrier" then. Because the Dems (Sanders, Clinton, Obama, Biden, Schumer etc.) voted both in 2006 and 2013 for measures improving fencing and barriers to keep out illegal immigrants. So the stance they're taking now seems to be in stark contrast and quite frankly pretty hypocritical.

 

Trump proposed a long wall along the border.  He sold this as something that would solve border problems and it was also something that wasn’t going to cost the American taxpayer anything.  Mexico paying for it was an integral part of his pitch for the wall.  Since he realized he lives in the real world he’s started moving the goalposts to Mexico paying for it using some economic rationale that his people can’t even explain and downgrading the concrete wall to fencing.  His supporters go along because let’s face it, if you still support Trump now you’re never going to not support Trump.

[SaysWho?]

Democrats’ Response Beat Trump’s Oval Office Address in Preliminary Ratings

[Jason]

3 minutes ago, finaljedi said:

 

Trump proposed a long wall along the border.  He sold this as something that would solve border problems and it was also something that wasn’t going to cost the American taxpayer anything.  Mexico paying for it was an integral part of his pitch for the wall.  Since he realized he lives in the real world he’s started moving the goalposts to Mexico paying for it using some economic rationale that his people can’t even explain and downgrading the concrete wall to fencing.  His supporters go along because let’s face it, if you still support Trump now you’re never going to not support Trump.

 

 

But!

 

 

 

The wall is TOTALLY different than a fence, but the wall is also a metaphor for whatever you want it to be. The real wall is in our hearts.

[CitizenVectron]

51 minutes ago, nublood said:

So has there ever been an explanation why Schumer, Pelosi, Hilary, Obama, etc.previously wanted a wall and better border infrastructure, but now they suddenly don't?

 

 

 

Democrats have never wanted a wall. "The Wall," as pushed by Trump, is a concrete (or glass, or steel, or artistically designed slats) tall wall along the entire American-Mexican border, which would require not only a huge amount of money, but would also require seizing land from American landowners. In some areas (say, where a city adjoins the border) a wall makes sense. But for thousands of kilometers of empty desert/bush it doesn't, as you can climb a 12-foot concrete wall just as easily as an 8-foot fence (just use a rope or ladder).

 

Democrats have been in favour of additional border security (patrols, drones, etc), but a wall literally does nothing unless you are actively there all of the time to monitor it. 

[Jason]

3 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Democrats have never wanted a wall. "The Wall," as pushed by Trump, is a concrete (or glass, or steel, or artistically designed slats) tall wall along the entire American-Mexican border, which would require not only a huge amount of money, but would also require seizing land from American landowners. In some areas (say, where a city adjoins the border) a wall makes sense. But for thousands of kilometers of empty desert/bush it doesn't, as you can climb a 12-foot concrete wall just as easily as an 8-foot fence (just use a rope or ladder).

 

Democrats have been in favour of additional border security (patrols, drones, etc), but a wall literally does nothing unless you are actively there all of the time to monitor it. 

 

Because, clearly, the Rio Grande gorge is COMPLETELY unsecured. 

 

[nublood]

Fair enough. But a wall physically, metaphorically, or whatever you want it to be, doesn't mean we don't want you here. It just means we want you to find the appropriate points of entry along said wall, and come into this country the right way. The current system in place just isn't working well enough.

[Jason]

1 minute ago, nublood said:

Fair enough. But a wall physically, metaphorically, or whatever you want it to be, doesn't mean we don't want you here. It just means we want you to find the appropriate points of entry along said wall, and come into this country the right way. The current system in place just isn't working well enough.

 

Then why is the administration also making legal immigration harder? 

 

[finaljedi]

14 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

 

But!

 

 

 

The wall is TOTALLY different than a fence, but the wall is also a metaphor for whatever you want it to be. The real wall is in our hearts.

 

How are wastelands natural protection where no wall is needed?  Did he make the standard of “natural barrier” encompass open desert too?

[Ghost_MH]

2 minutes ago, nublood said:

Fair enough. But a wall physically, metaphorically, or whatever you want it to be, doesn't mean we don't want you here. It just means we want you to find the appropriate points of entry along said wall, and come into this country the right way. The current system in place just isn't working well enough.

 

There's a super easy way to illegally live in the country. Just legally enter the country with a passport or a visa and then never leave. That's how the vast majority of undocumented immigrants enter the nation. I'm not sure how a wall helps.