Popular atheist who is totally not racist quits Patreon in solidarity with Milo and Sargon of Akkad

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Here's my bottom-line when it comes to this highly overrated concept of freedom of expression:  in 2018, it's probably the time when maybe, just maybe, white heterosexual men -- who have pretty much had the near exclusive franchise on the thing since 1776 and are the ones who seem to whine, bitch, and moan the most when they feel that their "right" to it is being suppressed -- should speak less and listen more.

 

And if someone from a "marginalized" group says something that you don't agree with, just bite your tongue and think long and hard about why that person feels that way.  You had your time to be heard, now it's the time for "the others".

[Boyle5150]

19 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

The first part makes no sense, and the second part isn't what I said. Are you just bored?

Sorry, what I mean is that being a "white male" or rather a "straight white male" isn't the qualifier for being racist and isn't the qualifier for those who dismiss it either. 

[Boyle5150]

14 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

Here's my bottom-line when it comes to this highly overrated concept of freedom of expression:  in 2018, it's probably the time when maybe, just maybe, white heterosexual men -- who have pretty much had the near exclusive franchise on the thing since 1776 and are the ones who seem to whine, bitch, and moan the most when they feel that their "right" to it is being suppressed -- should speak less and listen more.

 

And if someone from a "marginalized" group says something that you don't agree with, just bite your tongue and think long and hard about it.  You had your time to be heard, now give it to others.

Talk about horseshit 

 

"the grave gives plenty of time for silence"

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 minute ago, Boyle5150 said:

Talk about horseshit 

I rest my case, your honor.

[Boyle5150]

1 minute ago, SFLUFAN said:

I rest my case, your honor.

Dismissed!

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

2 minutes ago, Boyle5150 said:

"the grave gives plenty of time for silence"

"Death solves all problems.  No man, no problem."

[Boyle5150]

Conversation is all we have, and the only thing that defeats bad ideas, is better ideas.  These things happen through discussion, not, bammmm I gottem!!!

[Boyle5150]

1 minute ago, SFLUFAN said:

"Death solves all problems.  No man, no problem."

very true, for the individual, but not the residual 

[Rev]

Believe it or not, some people in marginalized groups are super offended by this idea that they should just be listened to. They want to be challenged when they're wrong. They don't want to just be listened to and agreed with. Shocking I know.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Just now, Boyle5150 said:

Conversation is all we have, and the only thing that defeats bad ideas, is better ideas.  These things happen through discussion, not, bammmm I gottem!!!

Do you know what ultimately determines if an idea is "good", "bad", or "better"?  Pure, beautiful violence. 

 

That is the ultimate arbiter of all things.

[Boyle5150]

4 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

"Death solves all problems.  No man, no problem."

also, very funny from someone who believes there is no right or wrong

[SaysWho?]

10 minutes ago, Boyle5150 said:

Sorry, what I mean is that being a "white male" or rather a "straight white male" isn't the qualifier for being racist and isn't the qualifier for those who dismiss it either. 

 

It very well increases the likelihood that you don't care about racism if it doesn't affect you, or only care about it in a peripheral way, or choose to sanitize terrible things such as slavery or white supremacy as "untenable political beliefs."

 

6 minutes ago, Boyle5150 said:

Conversation is all we have, and the only thing that defeats bad ideas, is better ideas.  These things happen through discussion, not, bammmm I gottem!!!

 

Nazism took a big kick in the balls in the 1940s through far more than conversation. They very well could have won and a "bad idea" (which, again, let's not sanitize what this is, it's an idea that's beneath contempt) would have reigned supreme regardless of how much you would have wanted to talk about it.

[Boyle5150]

2 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

Do you know what ultimately determines if an idea is "good", "bad", or "better"?  

 

 

well if I were you, and a consistent "you", then I would say, "nothing".  It's all subjective 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

11 minutes ago, Rev said:

Believe it or not, some people in marginalized groups are super offended by this idea that they should just be listened to. They want to be challenged when they're wrong. They don't want to just be listened to and agreed with. Shocking I know.

Until such time that a more equitable societal power balance has been achieved, the challenges to the ideas/thinking of marginalized groups should arise from within their "in-group" rather than the one that has represented the dominant power structure for a couple of hundred years.  That doesn't mean "agreement" from the currently dominant power group, it rather means "neutrality".

[Boyle5150]

1 minute ago, SaysWho? said:

 

It very well increases the likelihood that you don't care about racism if it doesn't affect you, or only care about it in a peripheral way, or choose to sanitize terrible things such as slavery or white supremacy as "untenable political beliefs."

 

the above has nothing to do with anyone particular race, period!

 

2 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Nazism took a big kick in the balls in the 1940s through far more than conversation. They very well could have won and a "bad idea" (which, again, let's not sanitize what this is, it's an idea that's beneath contempt) would have reigned supreme regardless of how much you would have wanted to talk about it.

I would like to hear @SFLUFAN's comments on this, as far as I know, there is no good or bad (not a position I hold).  I also don't believe that we wouldn't have corrected these ideas after the fact. 

[SaysWho?]

1 minute ago, Boyle5150 said:

the above has nothing to do with anyone particular race, period!

 

That's immaterial. "Not all whites" isn't a defense for white people who don't care about neo-Nazis or try to downplay them.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 minute ago, Boyle5150 said:

I would like to hear @SFLUFAN's comments on this, as far as I know, there is no good or bad (not a position I hold).  I also don't believe that we wouldn't have corrected these ideas after the fact. 

I consider it to be a subjectively bad idea.

[Boyle5150]

Just now, SaysWho? said:

 

That's immaterial. "Not all whites" isn't a defense for white people who don't care about neo-Nazis or try to downplay them.

let me help you with the whole "not all muslims", using the same criteria. 

You are going to have to try harder than that

 

[Rev]

1 minute ago, SFLUFAN said:

Until such time that a more equitable societal power balance has been achieved, the challenges to their thinking should arise from within their "in-group" rather than the one that has represented the dominant power structure for a couple of hundred years.  That doesn't mean "agreement" from the currently dominant power group, it rather means "neutrality".

Or how about you simply stop speaking for people in marginalized groups? Many want other people to tell them if they disagree with them, even if they're white. You know, because they aren't racist and they care about actually testing their beliefs and claims. 

[SaysWho?]

Just now, Boyle5150 said:

let me help you with the whole "not all muslims", using the same criteria. 

You are going to have to try harder than that

 

 

Try harder than what? What happens in other cultures or races has nothing to do with white people who brush off racism because they don't care about it. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

4 minutes ago, Rev said:

Or how about you simply stop speaking for people in marginalized groups? Many want other people to tell them if they disagree with them, even if they're white. You know, because they aren't racist and they care about actually testing their beliefs and claims. 

If they tell me to do that, I'll be more than happy to do so.

 

But I'm not directing my position to them -- I'm directing it towards my white male heterosexual "in-group".  In essence, I'm telling my in-group to do what it is the marginalized groups want us to do.  If it involves "challenging" them, then we challenge them (cautiously).  If it involves keeping our mouths shut, then we do that too.  In essence, we defer to the marginalized groups in determining the nature of the discourse.

[Boyle5150]

Just now, SaysWho? said:

 

Try harder than what? What happens in other cultures or races has nothing to do with white people who brush off racism because they don't care about it. 

are you talking about American culture, or white culture or some other unidentified culture?   

If you see it as American "white" culture, please define it. 

[Rev]

Just now, SFLUFAN said:

If they tell me to do that, I'll be more than happy to do so.

 

But I'm not directing my position to them -- I'm directing it towards my white male heterosexual "in-group".  In essence, I'm telling my in-group to do what it is the marginalized groups want us to do.  If it involves "challenging" them, then we challenge them (cautiously).  If it involves keeping our mouths shut, then we do that too.

I'll go ahead and treat them like adults and tell them when I think they're wrong. You can go ahead and patronize them though.

[Boyle5150]

2 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Try harder than what? What happens in other cultures or races has nothing to do with white people who brush off racism because they don't care about it. 

also, the point you are trying to make is the same point that you can make for every single race.  And one can make the exact opposite claim about every single race.  In other words, its a human condition, not a racial one.   

[Boyle5150]

Just now, Rev said:

I'll go ahead and treat them like adults and tell them when I think they're wrong. You can go ahead and patronize them though.

soft bigotry of low expectations 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

2 minutes ago, Rev said:

I'll go ahead and treat them like adults and tell them when I think they're wrong. You can go ahead and patronize them though.

 

1 minute ago, Boyle5150 said:

soft bigotry of low expectations 

Spoken like true members of the dominant power structure!

[RedSoxFan9]

nothing makes me happier than popping back into this thread and seeing the Sam Harris fans defending white men 

[SaysWho?]

2 minutes ago, Boyle5150 said:

are you talking about American culture, or white culture or some other unidentified culture?   

If you see it as American "white" culture, please define it. 

 

I've defined the case pretty well, but it seems you'd rather be pedantic. I'm just not going to talk to you about this because I know whatever is said will fall on deaf ears. Sorry.

[Boyle5150]

Just now, SFLUFAN said:

 

Spoken like true members of the dominant power structure!

much woke

[Boyle5150]

Just now, SaysWho? said:

 

I've defined the case pretty well, but it seems you'd rather be pedantic. I'm just not going to talk to you about this because I know whatever is said will fall on deaf ears. Sorry.

not at all, and I honestly enjoy the conversation.  I'm not mad at you, nor do I think you are a dumb person nor do I think you are simply a white male....

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 minute ago, Boyle5150 said:

nor do I think you are simply a white male....

He's Italian so he's not a "white" male.

[Boyle5150]

3 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said:

nothing makes me happier than popping back into this thread and seeing the Sam Harris fans defending white men 

do you have anything other than ad hominem attacks?  Join the discussion with your understanding of the argument at hand.  Try not to just label someone...

[SaysWho?]

3 minutes ago, Boyle5150 said:

not at all, and I honestly enjoy the conversation.  I'm not mad at you, nor do I think you are a dumb person nor do I think you are simply a white male....

 

 

Well I appreciate that, but at this point, I just don't feel like continuing the conversation right now. Nothing personal.

[Boyle5150]

2 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

He's Italian so he's not a "white" male.

I'm Irish, tell me what you think about the irish 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

2 minutes ago, Boyle5150 said:

I'm Irish, tell me what you think about the irish 

Probably not even human, far less "white".