Today's stock market decline is brought to you by the "inverted yield curve"

[marioandsonic]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

 

Fuck it, do it.  Let it all burn.

[CitizenVectron]

Is Powell actually bad? Or just bad for Trump?

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

3 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

Is Powell actually bad? Or just bad for Trump?

Powell is fine, just far too much of an inflation hawk.

[Massdriver]

I’m not convinced Yellen wouldn’t have raised just as many times, but I believe she would have softened the language earlier. 

[mclumber1]

1 hour ago, Massdriver said:

I’m not convinced Yellen wouldn’t have raised just as many times, but I believe she would have softened the language earlier. 

 

She's too short to raise rates.

[Ricofoley]

Futures down triple-digits again

 

 

[mclumber1]

I wouldn't be surprised if trump fires munchkin tomorrow.  Of course, that will make the markets react even worse.  How much did the market drop in the first month of the great depression?

 

[Snaynay1]

3 hours ago, mclumber1 said:

I wouldn't be surprised if trump fires munchkin tomorrow.  Of course, that will make the markets react even worse.  How much did the market drop in the first month of the great depression?

 

It took about half the month for the crash to begin culminating at the end of the month in the biggest drop.  The depression was already starting, the stock market was slower than the business cycle that was already on its way down.

[Greatoneshere]

17 hours ago, GoldenTongue said:

There are select areas in which $100k is “plenty”.

 

But a family of 3-4 in NYC, Boston, Philly, and/ or several other areas is not going to be in a position to pay regular bills, save for kids education, save for retirement, and service a mortgage on $100k/yr. 

 

Sorry, I think I misunderstood you and everyone in this thread. Having $100K IS a lot of money. I thought you were saying most people in the North East make $100K (I thought this was what Jose was saying too).

 

Let me be clear: I absolutely agree that earning $100K a year will take you far in the North East. The problem I meant to elucidate was that most millenials aren't making $100K in the North East was all.  

[Joe]

I repeat, earning 100k in the tri-state area is middle-class.

[Kal-El814]

31 minutes ago, Jose said:

I repeat, earning 100k in the tri-state area is middle-class.

That’s because the definition of “middle class” for a 4 person family in a place like NJ is between $60K - $170K, which means the designation is of pretty fucking limited utility. 

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, Jose said:

I repeat, earning 100k in the tri-state area is middle-class.

 

Yes, it is, I agree, but most people in the North East aren't middle class though. 

[Jason]

1 hour ago, Kal-El814 said:

That’s because the definition of “middle class” for a 4 person family in a place like NJ is between $60K - $170K, which means the designation is of pretty fucking limited utility. 

 

It's of limited utility to factor in cost of living when determining what income counts as middle class?

[Massdriver]

I bought some index funds at the opening bell. It’s time to buy equities! 

These two funds cover the world:

VTI

VXUS

[GoldenTongue]

On 12/24/2018 at 1:46 PM, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

$100k is middle to upper middle class everywhere in the country. It's not such an unfathomable amount of money that it makes you wealthy, but it will give you a comfortable life if you live within your means virtually everywhere

It's absolutely middle to upper middle class for most of the country.  But there are multiple areas in CA where that isn't true, as well as NYC, Long Island, and much of the areas immediately surrounding the city - including portions of NJ, Westchester County.  It's also the case in multiple areas in Connecticut as well as Massachusets.

 

For areas like this, $100k/yr is not going to leave you in a position where you are able to raise a family of 1-2 kids while paying the regular bills and servicing a mortgage, let alone making progress on saving for education(s) and/or retirement.

[Guest]

I am sure there are some exceptions to this, but I generally think of middle class as the starting point at which one can reasonably be expected to be able save money if they so chose. Obviously your zip code plays a big role there.

[Guest]

Big rally today. What will tomorrow bring?

[CayceG]

12 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Big rally today. What will tomorrow bring?

 

Volatility.

[PaladinSolo]

I love going to CNBC where every other hour they have a guy on the trading floor either looking like hes about to commit suicide or he won the lottery.

[SaysWho?]

12 hours ago, CayceG said:

 

Volatility.

 

Stocks in the United States fell at the start of trading on Thursday, as Wall Street’s roller-coaster ride continued. The losses came a day after the S&P 500 had its best one-day performance since 2009.

[CayceG]

5 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Stocks in the United States fell at the start of trading on Thursday, as Wall Street’s roller-coaster ride continued. The losses came a day after the S&P 500 had its best one-day performance since 2009.

 

Volatility also corresponds to that 1000 point gain from yesterday.

 

 

[Jason]

[Greatoneshere]

Most Americans don't even have any stocks, so it sometimes tickles me that people are so invested in it as the barometer of the economy generally because the 1% cares so much about stocks because they have stocks.

 

I'm not saying stocks don't matter, they do, but not nearly as much to most Americans as its made out to be.

[mclumber1]

37 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

Most Americans don't even have any stocks, so it sometimes tickles me that people are so invested in it as the barometer of the economy generally because the 1% cares so much about stocks because they have stocks.

 

I'm not saying stocks don't matter, they do, but not nearly as much to most Americans as its made out to be.

 

A significant portion of my total compensation in company stock.  It turns my stomach when there is this much volatility. 

[PaladinSolo]

38 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

Most Americans don't even have any stocks, so it sometimes tickles me that people are so invested in it as the barometer of the economy generally because the 1% cares so much about stocks because they have stocks.

 

I'm not saying stocks don't matter, they do, but not nearly as much to most Americans as its made out to be.

One of the problems with pensions disappearing is companies will now give stock incentives instead of raises, hell my wifes company straight up told them they're not getting raises because they're starting a matching program, lol.

[mclumber1]

3 minutes ago, PaladinSolo said:

One of the problems with pensions disappearing is companies will now give stock incentives instead of raises, hell my wifes company straight up told them they're not getting raises because they're starting a matching program, lol.

 

401ks are a good investment, as long as you continuously add to them and transition that money to safer, more stable areas like bonds from what I understand.  Plus they are more portable that pension programs. 

[Amazatron]

Roth IRA >> 401K because your withdrawals are tax-free (money is taxed going in).  Really the main benefit of 401K is if your company has a good matching program.

[Joe]

Just now, Amazatron said:

Roth IRA >> 401K because your withdrawals are tax-free (money is taxed going in).  Really the main benefit of 401K is if your company has a good matching program.

 

Yeah, until you hit that income limit.

[CitizenVectron]

23 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

 

A significant portion of my total compensation in company stock.  It turns my stomach when there is this much volatility. 

 

 

[CitizenVectron]

14 minutes ago, Amazatron said:

Roth IRA >> 401K because your withdrawals are tax-free (money is taxed going in).  Really the main benefit of 401K is if your company has a good matching program.

 

Both are useful. Roth IRA is better if you plan to have a higher income during retirement than you do whilst saving, and 401k is better if you plan to have a lower income compared to when you're saving. Theoretically if you were making the exact same amount at the time of saving as you would when taking out the money, then both have identifcal returns.

 

The best move is to utilize both as the IRA income will not count as taxable income, meaning you can then get a lower tax rate on the 401k withdrawals.

 

But you should always prioritize any matching program, as you said.

 

[Kal-El814]

18 minutes ago, Amazatron said:

Roth IRA >> 401K because your withdrawals are tax-free (money is taxed going in).  Really the main benefit of 401K is if your company has a good matching program.

Why not both. 

[Jason]

3 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

Why not both. 

 

Why not Zoidberg?

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, mclumber1 said:

 

A significant portion of my total compensation in company stock.  It turns my stomach when there is this much volatility. 

 

For sure - I definitely understand that. But the average American, particularly the younger you go in age bracket, have little to no stock investments of any kind. For them, all stock talk is a trickle down effect on their version of the economy rather than on those of us who are directly impacted because we own stocks. I wish more people earned enough to be able to afford stocks as an investment, but given we're always trying to punish the working and middle classes as much as possible I don't foresee that happening any time soon. 

 

1 hour ago, PaladinSolo said:

One of the problems with pensions disappearing is companies will now give stock incentives instead of raises, hell my wifes company straight up told them they're not getting raises because they're starting a matching program, lol.

 

Yeah, which is both a blessing and a curse. How much they'll match you is key - I hope they are offering a good one!

[Massdriver]

Some 401k plans have a Roth component. However, matching programs are better than Roths. You can't beat doubling your money right off the bat; plus you get to deduct the savings from your taxes.

[CitizenVectron]

24 minutes ago, Massdriver said:

Some 401k plans have a Roth component. However, matching programs are better than Roths. You can't beat doubling your money right off the bat; plus you get to deduct the savings from your taxes.

 

Do Americans pay taxes on Roth IRA capital gains? That would also make a difference. In Canada we don't with our equivalent Tax Free Savings Accounts (TFSAs).