Jump to content
SaysWho?

~*Official 2020 Candidates Thread*~

Recommended Posts

My indifference to this issue could not be more palpable:  whatever is the ultimate solution is fine with me.

 

Progressive.  Regressive.  Forgive it all.  Forgive some of it.  Keep the principal, forgive the interest.  Whatever.

 

This doesn't even crack my Top 20 issues to be addressed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Massdriver said:

Why is forcing the middle class to pay for rich kids to go to college progressive?

You could say the same thing about any level of education; why should the middle class family of a 10th grader pay school taxes so a wealthy family’s 11th grader can go to school for 'free'? Because if you are going to assert that public education is a worthwhile investment/resource that should be ‘freely’ available, then everyone should pay their fair share and everyone should have access. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Chris- said:

You could say the same thing about any level of education; why should the middle class family of a 10th grader pay school taxes so a wealthy family’s 11th grader can go to school for free? Because if you are going to assert that public education is a worthwhile investment/resource that should be ‘freely’ available, then everyone should pay their fair share and everyone should have access. 

 

Everyone should have access to whatever degree or college in the country, regardless of the tuition cost or inflation? What is the opportunity cost for free tuition when there are so many other areas the poor and middle class need help? Why can’t we favor a progressive system that pays for the poor to go to college and helps them middle class? The structure and governing body of a university  is fundamentally different than grade school. I can be for helping people go to college without lazy proposals that pretend like there is an infinite supply of money. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rich people aren't gonna take the government's money to go to a state school. They will still use mommy and daddy's to go to a fancy-pants private school.

 

Imagine rolling up to your country club, with everyone knowing that you went to a state school just like a pleb. You'd never hear the end of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Somewhere reality is going to come crashing down. The costs of Warren and Sander’s proposals costs tax money which means multiple tax bills has to pass both the senate and the House. Battles have to be chosen carefully. If you can help more people for less money, we should do it. That’s what progressive policy is all about. Modern monetary theory is false so taxation for these policies is necessary. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, thewhyteboar said:

Rich people aren't gonna take the government's money to go to a state school. They will still use mommy and daddy's to go to a fancy-pants private school.

 

Imagine rolling up to your country club, with everyone knowing that you went to a state school just like a pleb. You'd never hear the end of it.

Rich people go to public universities in Texas all the time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Compromise:  College is free, but there will be a limited number of scholarships granted based on how well you do in high school.  If you didn't score well enough, you can always go to trade school, or join the military. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, thewhyteboar said:

Rich people aren't gonna take the government's money to go to a state school. They will still use mommy and daddy's to go to a fancy-pants private school.

 

Imagine rolling up to your country club, with everyone knowing that you went to a state school just like a pleb. You'd never hear the end of it.

 

Rich people go to public universities all the time.  IDK what you are thinking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of this money could be used to make our high schools vocational hubs and better launching pads into public universities or into careers. We could have a track system and could stop pretending everyone is going to get a 4 year degree, or even that it’s desirable. Most of these students we will all be paying for will drop out if we pretend like everyone is the same. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doesn’t matter what their proposals are for two reasons: 1) democrats will not have the senate anytime soon. Republicans won’t vote for any of this stuff no matter what. 2) presidential policy proposals are a statement of priorities and won’t generally be enacted by congress without significant changes, even just looking at things at an intraparty level. 

 

 

All all that said, cancel all loans, fund accredited state 4 year undergraduate schools and community colleges adequately on a per capita basis(so there is no cost to students just like high schools) while tying graduation rates and dropout rates to accreditation status (so you don’t fill schools with warm bodies). End student loans, graduate and professional school students can get need based pell grants, with inflation capped limits. (And other funding sources as well)

 

and changing high school to vocation or college track schools is hilarious. My wife went to the richest public school district in the state of Ohio. A slight exaggeration, but I bet they had more Ivy League grads than trade school grads. And if you think for a goddamn minute that a two track system won’t be used to further entrench the racial caste system we have now, well, I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is massive value to keeping public policy simple and not turning it into bureaucratic nightmare. Free tuition college for all is clean and simple.

 

It'd probably likely made trades more attractive since universities would have to raise standards since they can't use money or debt to gate keep. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

The dumb thing about Beto's idea is that it would only be applied to non-military families. That's like only charging educational taxes to people without children.

 

I am 100% in favour of a "War Tax." Actually, isn't that basically what the income tax is?

 

That doesn't seem analogous to me. I imagine the reasoning behind only non-vets is that vets already paid their dues by service and shouldn't be taxed again. People with children didn't pay their dues for educational costs so it's not analogous to not tax them for education.

 

14 hours ago, mclumber1 said:

Compromise:  College is free, but there will be a limited number of scholarships granted based on how well you do in high school.  If you didn't score well enough, you can always go to trade school, or join the military. 

 

I don't think that's a good plan given the context of testing which tends to favor the wealthy and white. Even if it started out with a neutral effort, it would ultimately be gamed by the people who have the means to do so. It seems more effective to budget for everyone and therefore un-gameable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL at anyone thinking that statistically speaking student debt loan forgiveness would help more rich people than poor/working/middle class people. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BIDEN LIKES SPAGHETTI! SCANDAL!!!

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Doesn’t matter what their proposals are for two reasons: 1) democrats will not have the senate anytime soon. Republicans won’t vote for any of this stuff no matter what. 2) presidential policy proposals are a statement of priorities and won’t generally be enacted by congress without significant changes, even just looking at things at an intraparty level. 

 

 

All all that said, cancel all loans, fund accredited state 4 year undergraduate schools and community colleges adequately on a per capita basis(so there is no cost to students just like high schools) while tying graduation rates and dropout rates to accreditation status (so you don’t fill schools with warm bodies). End student loans, graduate and professional school students can get need based pell grants, with inflation capped limits. (And other funding sources as well)

 

and changing high school to vocation or college track schools is hilarious. My wife went to the richest public school district in the state of Ohio. A slight exaggeration, but I bet they had more Ivy League grads than trade school grads. And if you think for a goddamn minute that a two track system won’t be used to further entrench the racial caste system we have now, well, I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. 

 

Why are you so pessimistic about Dems chance of taking the Senate in 2020? Like they are at worst 40% right now and I think they end up being significantly higher.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Jose said:

 

Why are you so pessimistic about Dems chance of taking the Senate in 2020? Like they are at worst 40% right now and I think they end up being significantly higher.

I can't get upset if my expectations are rock bottom.

 

But I see only 5, maybe 6, competitive races, one loss, and one win. And some of the competitive races are against well known incumbents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

I can't get upset if my expectations are rock bottom.

 

But I see only 5, maybe 6, competitive races, one loss, and one win. And some of the competitive races are against well known incumbents.

 

You assume Dougie boy is gonna lose? We shall see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Massdriver said:

It doesn't help Dems that some of their best candidates aren't running for senate such as Beto and Abrams. 

 

There's a candidate running who used to serve who did very well in a red District in 2018. She's the woman who had that fantastic doors ad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

There's a candidate running who used to serve who did very well in a red District in 2018. She's the woman who had that fantastic doors ad.

What's her name? I know who you're talking about but no one knows her in Texas yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Jose said:

 

You assume Dougie boy is gonna lose? We shall see.

Unless he's up against Roy Moore, he will lose. Against him I give even odds

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doug Jones just needs to switch parties and he'll get 80% of the vote.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We're going into a presidential year thats likely to see the highest turn out in a very very long time, with a consistently unpopular GOP president, I think a lot more GOPers could fall than people think.

D9Y5EZQXsAEY2Zh.png:large

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Massdriver said:

What's her name? I know who you're talking about but no one knows her in Texas yet.

 

MJ Hegar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SaysWho? said:

 

MJ Hegar

I’ve read some articles about her. I think she has potential, but it’s hard to believe she will do as well as Beto would have. 

 

I look forward to seeing her campaign and hope she doesn’t have too much of a primary. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...