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SaysWho?

~*Official 2020 Candidates Thread*~

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1 hour ago, Massdriver said:

You said it was good short hand. Wealth is good is good short hand. 

 

Except . . . 

 

1 hour ago, Anathema- said:

Wealth isn't bad, the wealthy using their political power to keep people poor and refuse to help them are bad and thinking that poor people don't have a voice in that discussion is also bad.

 

This.

 

I'm saying it has become synonymous with bad. I'm wealthy, grew up wealthy, I can tell you that the wealthy are disingenuous and work in bad faith generally speaking. The broader evidence exhibited by the country bears this out. Wealth is inherently good but since wealth also corrupts there's a cognitive dissonance there.

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2 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

I wouldn't mind having fewer obscenely wealthy people if it meant they don't control as much compared to poorer people, and poorer/middle-class people have more spending power. We live in a nation where a not insignificant amount of people are scared of a sudden $500 medical bill; that's hardly a resounding "results are in and fuck yeah."

I’m not defending the status quo completely. We need better policies. I’m attacking democratic socialism. Providing healthcare to the poor and middle class and redistributing more is fine. 

 

I think the way to address the ultra wealthy using their wealth to control the state is an enforced estate tax. Say any amount over 20 million is taxed at 85%, but cut slack under that for farming families and small businesses. I would be fine with that. 

 

Estate taxes are easier to enforce relative to an annual wealth tax because it’s too many assets to value and for the irs to keep up with every year. 

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Yang discusses giving every citizen $1000 a month who's at least 18.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Massdriver said:

I’m not defending the status quo completely. We need better policies. I’m attacking democratic socialism. Providing healthcare to the poor and middle class and redistributing more is fine. 

 

I think the way to address the ultra wealthy using their wealth to control the state is an enforced estate tax. Say any amount over 20 million is taxed at 85%, but cut slack under that for farming families and small businesses. I would be fine with that. 

 

Estate taxes are easier to enforce relative to an annual wealth tax because it’s too many assets to value and for the irs to keep up with every year. 

 

You seem to be a fan of the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. The world is burning and some moderate stance like that will save very few. Not that our opinions even matter anymore. 

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18 hours ago, Massdriver said:

I’m not defending the status quo completely. We need better policies. I’m attacking democratic socialism. Providing healthcare to the poor and middle class and redistributing more is fine. 

 

I think the way to address the ultra wealthy using their wealth to control the state is an enforced estate tax. Say any amount over 20 million is taxed at 85%, but cut slack under that for farming families and small businesses. I would be fine with that. 

 

Estate taxes are easier to enforce relative to an annual wealth tax because it’s too many assets to value and for the irs to keep up with every year. 

 

Sanders is proposing a reformed estate tax: https://patrioticmillionaires.org/2019/04/01/fixing-the-estate-tax-how-sanders-and-harris-are-setting-the-tone-for-2020-contenders/

 

Quote

Sanders’s For the 99.8% Act offers a tiered progressive approach to fixing the estate tax which includes lowering the exemption levels and increasing the taxation rate. His multi-tiered expansion would create a more equitable system that taxes the rich according to their degree of wealth. The lowest tier taxes estates from $3.5 million to $10 million at 45%, while the highest tier was raised to tax estates over a billion dollars at 77%. Senator Sanders’s team reports that his plan will raise around $2.2 trillion from 588 billionaires within 10 years.

 

Harris' plan is detailed there as well.

 

I think more capitalists such as the Patriotic Millionaires need to go all-in with the DSA. Not supporting everything they stand for if they truly don't, but understanding that people who go, "The rich control too much, they control you, they own all the major media outlets, and you have a right to be pissed," and who don't take a penny from Wall Street are, at a minimum, actually on our side. Republicans won't do that, and the Democratic leadership tends to be very limp in proposing a clear economic vision and changing the conversation.

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11 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

You seem to be a fan of the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. The world is burning and some moderate stance like that will save very few. Not that our opinions even matter anymore. 

Moderation would have been perfect thirty years ago.

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I do really appreciate Massdriver's ability to communicate his ideas with us and his apprehension about the Democratic-Socialist ideology. I've said since forever that I don't want contrary views on the board simply to have them (Everyman and heyyoudvd are examples of low-caliber people the world could do without), but Mass has always been a good-faith debater, so I continue to appreciate his different POV. tbh, I wish more capitalists were like him since he gets that bigger change is needed even if the total views of the DSA make him nervous.

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25 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

I do really appreciate Massdriver's ability to communicate his ideas with us and his apprehension about the Democratic-Socialist ideology. I've said since forever that I don't want contrary views on the board simply to have them (Everyman and heyyoudvd are examples of low-caliber people the world could do without), but Mass has always been a good-faith debater, so I continue to appreciate his different POV. tbh, I wish more capitalists were like him since he gets that bigger change is needed even if the total views of the DSA make him nervous.

 

I agree with this as well.

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27 minutes ago, 2user1cup said:

But could there be a chance? 

 

Valiant effort.  But unless the GOP drops trump in the next 6 months, the dotard will be the nominee.

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45 minutes ago, 2user1cup said:

But could there be a chance? 

 

There is literally zero chance. Donald Trump is the apex of Republican candidacy and/or presidency.

 

I'm convinced Trump could win the convention every 4 years for the next 40 if he could run.

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Primarying Trump is great though even if he has no chance to succeed. Making Republicans choose sides internally (thus pitting them against each other) will be glorious. We need to splinter that Trump base any way we can.

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1 hour ago, 2user1cup said:

But could there be a chance? 

OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO

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5 minutes ago, 2user1cup said:

Are you sure there isn't a chance? Explain it to me

 85%+ of Republicans still fully support Trump even to today. There's no indication they will change their minds. 85% or something of evangelical Christians came out to vote, and they all voted for Trump. That is an insane turn out of a voting block. With that rock solid 35-40% base that supports him (that just won't waver no matter what Trump does - the only thing that might hurt it is another government shutdown or the economy tanks) there's little chance Trump can be successfully primaried. But it would be fun to see Trump have to fight to earn his base again, even if only a little.

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21 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

or the economy tanks

"Things were going great until Democrats showed up in Washington!"

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3 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

 85%+ of Republicans still fully support Trump even to today. There's no indication they will change their minds. 85% or something of evangelical Christians came out to vote, and they all voted for Trump. That is an insane turn out of a voting block. With that rock solid 35-40% base that supports him (that just won't waver no matter what Trump does - the only thing that might hurt it is another government shutdown or the economy tanks) there's little chance Trump can be successfully primaried. But it would be fun to see Trump have to fight to earn his base again, even if only a little.

I don't get it..

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One thing's for sure, this nomination won't have room for a lot of cross-over votes which will hurt Weld unfortunately.

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3 hours ago, Jason said:

Notice the use of "we" for Fox News.

What an opportunity for Fox! Have Bernie on, get Trump fired up. 

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