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SaysWho?

~*Official 2020 Candidates Thread*~

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But why don’t they want to release it? You hate to speculate about such things, but the only answer is because the member votes went for Sanders while the leadership votes went for Warren, and the organization is embarrassed to reveal the degree to which the leadership overruled the membership.

 

How stark was the vote split? We don’t know for sure because they won’t release the information. But the figures they have released allow us to do some math to back out some ballpark figures.

 

What we know is that (1) 80 percent of members voted for Warren or Sanders and (2) 60.9 percent of the weighted vote went for Warren on the first ballot. If this is true, then the following graph shows what percent of WFP leaders had to vote for Warren to achieve this outcome by what percent of WFP members voted for Warren.

 

If 22 percent of WFP members voted for Warren, then 100 percent of the WFP leaders had to vote for Warren to achieve a 60.9 percent weighted vote. On the flip side, if 80 percent of WFP members voted for Warren, then 41.8 percent of WFP leaders had to vote for Warren to achieve a 60.9 percent vote.

 

If you believe, as is obvious, that the reason WFP won’t release a membership vote total this time is because Warren did not win the membership vote, then this means Warren got anywhere from 22 to 40 percent of the member vote. This further means that 82 to 100 percent of the WFP leadership voted for Warren. This is the stark split they don’t want to reveal but are nevertheless very incompetent at hiding.

 

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OR, it's because Bernie supports hound and harass every group that doesn't endorse him, and there is no reason to divulge that information.

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Pete't plan is what a lot of countries use quite successfully.  There are only a handful of countries that have completely socialized healthcare.  Places like Japan, Germany, France, and Australia all use a mixed system as far as I understand it.

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I’m assuming the Working Families Party has a system that its members and leaders all have consented to and they endorsed Warren.  Who cares if the leaders went Warren. Bernie lost. 

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8 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

it's because Bernie supports hound and harass every group that doesn't endorse him, and there is no reason to divulge that information.

 

They had no problem releasing the numbers in 2016, as stated in the article 

 

The obvious reason is the leaders whose vote counted 178 times more than members threw all of their support behind Warren. 

 

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4 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

Pete't plan is what a lot of countries use quite successfully.  There are only a handful of countries that have completely socialized healthcare.  Places like Japan, Germany, France, and Australia all use a mixed system as far as I understand it.

Yep. I’ve encountered a few reddit users that have made the mistake of saying every other developed nation has single payer healthcare except the U.S. The correct talking point is every other rich nation has a universal healthcare system. This was said fairly frequently when the ACA was being debated. Multi payer mixed systems can work really well. 

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8 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

It's almost like there's no conviction other than "better things aren't possible"

 

Always nice to see these guys do the right thing 10 years after the fact and claim it's the common sense way.

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20 minutes ago, thewhyteboar said:

 

 

If you had asked me earlier this year, "Which candidate would be the first to directly call out Democratic leadership," I would not have guessed Beto or put him in the Top 5 in candidates who would.

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22 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

I thought you might like this story from The Washington Post.
New York Mayor Bill de Blasio ends his bid for the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination
https://wapo.st/2AxaJuH

 

Where have you gone, Bill de Blasio?

A nation turns its lonely eyes to you

Ooo ooo ooo

What's that you say, Bernie and Warren?

Joltin' Joe won't leave, he's here to stay

Hey hey hey

Hey hey hey

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11 hours ago, Massdriver said:

Pete is 3rd place in Iowa and is now 4th nationwide after Harris has fallen. Not bad at all. 

The Biden lead continues to puzzle me...If you think a centrist platform will play best against Trump, Buttigieg is a far better bet than Biden.

 

Warren’s still the one you’d want if you think left-wing nationalist populism has the best shot of defeating right-wing nationalist populism.

 

Tough call given how fubar the nation’s politics are right now.

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42 minutes ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said:

The Biden lead continues to puzzle me...If you think a centrist platform will play best against Trump, Buttigieg is a far better bet than Biden.

 

Warren’s still the one you’d want if you think left-wing nationalist populism has the best shot of defeating right-wing nationalist populism.

 

Tough call given how fubar the nation’s politics are right now.

 

old people vote, old people love Biden 

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1 hour ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Where have you gone, Bill de Blasio?

A nation turns its lonely eyes to you

Ooo ooo ooo

What's that you say, Bernie and Warren?

Joltin' Joe won't leave, he's here to stay

Hey hey hey

Hey hey hey

 

This deserves all the reactions but since I can't I won't give any.

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1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

 

 

Make it even spicier:  

 

1. Full repeal of the preexisting conditions clause for private insurance
2. Fold all existing federal healthcare programs into Medicare (including VA healthcare)
3. Remove the tax incentive for employer provided health insurance. Instead, give the tax incentive to employers who deposit money into employees' health savings accounts. This money can be used to pay for medical services "out of pocket", purchase private insurance or enrolling in Medicare (see #4)
4. Open up Medicare for anyone who wants it. If private insurance cannot cover you, you can enroll in Medicare and pay monthly premiums and copays.

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@mclumber1

 

What do you mean full repeal of the preexisting conditions clause for private insurance? Other than that, I like your idea of allowing individuals and families to choose and purchase their own plan assuming there is a public option.

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Health savings accounts are great if you're young and healthy, or middle to upper middle class, and are relatively useless if you have an actual emergency that costs a significant amount of money. Hello cancer and heart attacks. Hell, diabetes maintenance is hard enough as is. I had two ER visits for my daughter that have cost me about $3k out of pocket in my first year with an HSA (cost about $5k before insurance negotiating down the price).

Besides, it's not the $150 doctor checkup that's bankrupting people and exploding costs in the country. It's wildly expensive medical tech, prescription drugs, just generally out of control medical costs (high deductibles and expensive premiums), in network/out of network unknowables, and administrative bloat. More private insurance in the US won't help any of this.

 

There's literally no one who is getting rid of the VA healthcare. Ever. Not even Bernie. Same for preexisting conditions. Both political nonstarters.

 

And none of this touches the very serious ticking time bomb for families reaching their late 60s/70s--long term care costs, which will eliminate the wealth of all but the most wealthy/healthy/AND well prepared (But would be covered under M4A as written)

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Unless Citizen's United is overturned, Single Payer is the only viable option since it's basically Republican proof. Any plan that leaves the private insurance industry alive will leave Insurance Lobbyists alive to undermine the Public Option to the point it is no longer competitive with Private Insurance. 

 

Third Rail it. 

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1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Health savings accounts are great if you're young and healthy, or middle to upper middle class, and are relatively useless if you have an actual emergency that costs a significant amount of money. Hello cancer and heart attacks. Hell, diabetes maintenance is hard enough as is. I had two ER visits for my daughter that have cost me about $3k out of pocket in my first year with an HSA (cost about $5k before insurance negotiating down the price).

Besides, it's not the $150 doctor checkup that's bankrupting people and exploding costs in the country. It's wildly expensive medical tech, prescription drugs, just generally out of control medical costs (high deductibles and expensive premiums), in network/out of network unknowables, and administrative bloat. More private insurance in the US won't help any of this.

 

There's literally no one who is getting rid of the VA healthcare. Ever. Not even Bernie. Same for preexisting conditions. Both political nonstarters.

 

And none of this touches the very serious ticking time bomb for families reaching their late 60s/70s--long term care costs, which will eliminate the wealth of all but the most wealthy/healthy/AND well prepared (But would be covered under M4A as written)

The money that employers would put into HSAs could be used to purchase health insurance and pay for premiums. I imagine in such a scenario, in addition to employer contributions, the middle class and below would have Federal subsides to help too. I believe he also said you could purchase Medicare with this, so I'm not sure why you only mentioned private insurance when Medicare would be available to anyone who wants it.

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1 hour ago, Massdriver said:

The money that employers would put into HSAs could be used to purchase health insurance and pay for premiums. I imagine in such a scenario, in addition to employer contributions, the middle class and below would have Federal subsides to help too. I believe he also said you could purchase Medicare with this, so I'm not sure why you only mentioned private insurance when Medicare would be available to anyone who wants it.

Barring government intervention, private insurance as a primary provider of health insurance, won't be able to compete with Medicare. This plan still keeps in place the link between medical coverage being affordable and employment, just makes things even more confusing but hey the "consumer" has "choice"

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15 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Barring government intervention, private insurance as a primary provider of health insurance, won't be able to compete with Medicare. This plan still keeps in place the link between medical coverage being affordable and employment, just makes things even more confusing but hey the "consumer" has "choice"

Ideally all the subsides would be transferred directly to individuals and families rather than employers to completely sever the link.

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