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What do you guys think of a cashless system and just using a national cryptocurrency?


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https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/sweden-s-push-to-get-rid-of-cash-has-some-saying-not-so-fast/ar-BBPXDjp?ocid=AMZN

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Cash is disappearing in the country faster than anyone thought it would. Now, officials are trying to slow its demise as they determine the societal costs.

Few countries have been moving toward a cashless society as fast as Sweden. But cash is being squeezed out so quickly — with half the nation’s retailers predicting they will stop accepting bills before 2025 — that the government is recalculating the societal costs of a cash-free future.

The financial authorities, who once embraced the trend, are asking banks to keep peddling notes and coins until the government can figure out what going cash-free means for young and old consumers. The central bank, which predicts cash may fade from Sweden, is testing a digital currency — an e-krona — to keep firm control of the money supply. Lawmakers are exploring the fate of online payments and bank accounts if an electrical grid fails or servers are thwarted by power failures, hackers or even war.

“When you are where we are, it would be wrong to sit back with our arms crossed, doing nothing, and then just take note of the fact that cash has disappeared,” said Stefan Ingves, the governor of Sweden’s central bank, known as the Riksbank. “You can’t turn back time, but you do have to find a way to deal with change.”

Ask most people in Sweden how often they pay with cash, and the answer is “almost never.” A fifth of Swedes, in a country of 10 million people, do not use automated teller machines anymore. More than 4,000 Swedes have implanted microchips in their hands, allowing them to pay for rail travel and food, or enter keyless offices, with a wave. Restaurants, buses, parking lots and even pay toilets depend on clicks rather than cash.

I have always been a fan of getting rid of change like pennies which cost more to make compared to the actual value. I wonder how much we would save not having to print cash, eliminating counterfeiting and environmental impact? 

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The idea that it has to be a cryptocurrency isn't valid. For the most part, I'm already cashless in that I use credit cards and electronic banking. 

 

Having an e-krona seems like more work than just keeping the money on electronic balance sheets. Have people turn in their cash and coins by X date, don't issue any more bills/coins, and the transition to cashless can work. (note: I have no idea what stopping the issuance of physical currency would do to the economy, and I realize India taking their large bills out of service lead to a big disruption)

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Sweden is great for how little they use cash, I pulled out a small amount of krona just in case when I went on a business trip but did not use a single bill, in many cases to use it would have been a bigger hassle then my card.

 

While I’m also unsure if crypto currency is the answer I can see the need to tie a digital $ to something.

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You only need block chain ledgers if you can't trust the parties involved in a series of transactions. But if it's the government and banks, then a regular ledger will do,.so using a cryptocurrency is stupid.

 

Also, my life is almost completely cashless anyway. I think the us is probably the last western nation where cash is still very prevalent, and that's only because the banks were allowed to make their own networks, and dragged their feet. The rest of the western world has had contactless payments by debit and credit for years, along with etransfers (free instant money transfers between any two bank accounts using only email or text). I use e-transfer for almost everything these days, for private sales.

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57 minutes ago, Remarkableriots said:

So if we didn't mint those useless coins high value bills would lose value?

 

It costs 1.5 cents to print a penny

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/it-cost-1-5-cents-to-make-a-penny-last-year/

 

It costs 12.5 cents to print a $100 bill. 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/new-100-bill-costs-60-more-to-produce-2013-10-08

 

I'm just saying all this moaning about how much it costs to mint coins isn't a good argument. 

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1 hour ago, CayceG said:

 

It costs 1.5 cents to print a penny

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/it-cost-1-5-cents-to-make-a-penny-last-year/

 

It costs 12.5 cents to print a $100 bill. 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/new-100-bill-costs-60-more-to-produce-2013-10-08

 

I'm just saying all this moaning about how much it costs to mint coins isn't a good argument. 

 

Bills circulate. Pennies don't. Your own link about the penny notes this--the problem isn't just what they cost to make but the rate at which they have to mint them due to the fact that they don't circulate.

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The whole value of the penny thing has always been a weird conversation.  Who cares that it costs more to make than it's face value, that's not what it's for.  If a penny were a one use item that vanished when spent, sure it would be a horrifying waste of money.  Instead, it will last in general circulation for literal decades.  If I bust open my change bank, I'll find pennies minted before I was born no problem.  In terms of return on investment, coins perform far better than bills.  

 

Also a cashless society would be very weird to contemplate.  There are still far too many little things I pay for with cash, or small things that just aren't worth the hassle of updating.  Can you imagine swiping your debit card to get a bouncy ball for your kid or something?  Is someone really going to re-engineer those little things to accept online payment?

 

I also wonder at what point the information economy is going to completely collapse.  With a combination of social media, credit cards, online shopping, online tracking, etc. I have to imagine that personal information and trends are just everywhere and I can't imagine they're going to hold value for that much longer when everyone and their mother has your full profile.  Making it so that every single transaction is traceable seems like a step in that direction.  

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1 hour ago, LazyPiranha said:

The whole value of the penny thing has always been a weird conversation.  Who cares that it costs more to make than it's face value, that's not what it's for.  If a penny were a one use item that vanished when spent, sure it would be a horrifying waste of money.  Instead, it will last in general circulation for literal decades.  If I bust open my change bank, I'll find pennies minted before I was born no problem.  In terms of return on investment, coins perform far better than bills.  

 

Also a cashless society would be very weird to contemplate.  There are still far too many little things I pay for with cash, or small things that just aren't worth the hassle of updating.  Can you imagine swiping your debit card to get a bouncy ball for your kid or something?  Is someone really going to re-engineer those little things to accept online payment?

 

I also wonder at what point the information economy is going to completely collapse.  With a combination of social media, credit cards, online shopping, online tracking, etc. I have to imagine that personal information and trends are just everywhere and I can't imagine they're going to hold value for that much longer when everyone and their mother has your full profile.  Making it so that every single transaction is traceable seems like a step in that direction.  

This is the problem with pennies, they don't actually circulate, people get them, throw them in a container so they don't have a bunch on them, never use them again till they cash them in, at least vending machines take nickels, lol.

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4 hours ago, LazyPiranha said:

The whole value of the penny thing has always been a weird conversation.  Who cares that it costs more to make than it's face value, that's not what it's for.  If a penny were a one use item that vanished when spent, sure it would be a horrifying waste of money.  Instead, it will last in general circulation for literal decades.  If I bust open my change bank, I'll find pennies minted before I was born no problem.  In terms of return on investment, coins perform far better than bills.  

 

Also a cashless society would be very weird to contemplate.  There are still far too many little things I pay for with cash, or small things that just aren't worth the hassle of updating.  Can you imagine swiping your debit card to get a bouncy ball for your kid or something?  Is someone really going to re-engineer those little things to accept online payment?

 

I also wonder at what point the information economy is going to completely collapse.  With a combination of social media, credit cards, online shopping, online tracking, etc. I have to imagine that personal information and trends are just everywhere and I can't imagine they're going to hold value for that much longer when everyone and their mother has your full profile.  Making it so that every single transaction is traceable seems like a step in that direction.  

 

Actually I use debit or credit tap for all purchases. It's faster than cash and I have a record, so why would I? It's only alien to you because the US is so behind the curve on point of sale systems.

 

Also, pennies have effectively become single-use. More than any other coin, they are received and then tucked away, not carried around and re-used. So the mint has to keep making more so that more change can be given. In Canada we got rid of it and no one cares.

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So promoters of cryptocurrency typically argue that its distributed nature will allow universal access, lower fees by cutting out the middlemen, provide more confidentiality, and ease transfers across borders. If a cryptocurrency is being handled by a government and run through the existing banking system, you have the same middlemen, less confidentiality, likely the same barriers across borders, and likely the same barriers to entry. You eliminate every possible advantage, except maybe adding more transparency, and even that is dependent on how the system is setup.

 

Crypto currencies have yet to prove value as is, and all their potential value is in how they can be distinct from fiat currencies. Using crypto as a fiat medium is just backwards.

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