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Official Michael B. Jordan vs Putin Discussion Thread (CREED II)

johnny

By johnny
in The Performing Arts Centre

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johnny

johnny

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8 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Ugh, I wanna see this, but I probably won't get to it in theaters. Too many movies out right now for someone who doesn't go to the theater often. Saw the signs for it last night and I got a sad face.

I doubt those other movies have training montages so FUCK EM 

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TwinIon

TwinIon

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I think Creed 2 is sign that perhaps the Boxing film genre has run its course. Coogler's dynamic direction and storytelling are missing, but his talented cast remains, and it's a shame that the result is so cookie cutter. The first film was predictable sure, but it still felt exciting somehow. This one lacked that. It's fine. There's nothing that poorly done about it, it's just nothing special.

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skillzdadirecta

skillzdadirecta

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Boxing film genre? What genre? Lol! There's been like two big budget boxing movies in the past ten years... Creed and Creed 2. If anything the Rocky genre and arc may have run it's course, yes that I would agree with. 

As far as the film goes, I liked it well enough. Saw it and Overlord on Saturday.  it dragged a little,  and was predictable as hell, and i was underwhelmed by the training montage ( you have to nail the training montage in Rocky movies :p)

But I liked it a lot other than these minor quibbles.  I really liked the Dragos' arc and was joking to my buddy that I wouldn't mind seeing a Drago spinoff series :p

Fun but unremarkable movie at the end of the day.

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TwinIon

TwinIon

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10 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Boxing film genre? What genre? Lol! There's been like two big budget boxing movies in the past ten years... Creed and Creed 2. If anything the Rocky genre and arc may have run it's course, yes that I would agree with. 

There aren't that many big budget boxing films, but there have been a few other boxing movies made (Southpaw and The Fighter come to mind). Still, point taken, it's a very small pool. That probably accentuates the issue though, if the majority of boxing movies that people have actually seen are all in the same series, the sameness is even more pronounced.

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skillzdadirecta

skillzdadirecta

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49 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

There aren't that many big budget boxing films, but there have been a few other boxing movies made (Southpaw and The Fighter come to mind). Still, point taken, it's a very small pool. That probably accentuates the issue though, if the majority of boxing movies that people have actually seen are all in the same series, the sameness is even more pronounced.

 

There's a boxing show in development, and The Contender just wrapped on Epix. Plus a certain user on this board is currently shopping a boxing script so... :whistlin: 

There's a renewed interest in boxing films and Creed is a big part of that. Plus the sports resurgent popularity on the world stage.

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IdeaOfEvil

IdeaOfEvil

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I just got back from seeing it tonight... aaaand it just misses the mark of being a good Rocky movie =/

 

I make no excuses about why I enjoy the Rocky franchise. It's entertaining, and trying to listen to critics and reviewers - my age, older or younger - explain some psychological meaning behind the cheesiness of the music, the training montages, and the fights themselves, are all mind-numbingly tedious. And so, with Creed 2 being a part of the Rocky franchise, the movies pedigree only had to follow a simple familiar path that had been set by all the movies before it. And honestly, the blatant weaknesses of this one just edges out the strengths and leaves one disappointed.

 

Rocky has always been about the underdog, and showing you why 'insert boxer name here' is the underdog, and how that underdog triumphs against all odds. And this movie messes up by showing the villain as being the underdog, with a deeper meaning behind his "why I fight" story versus the hero's. And what's worse is the fight and the training does the ending outcome absolutely no justice. While watching the story progress, I found myself routing for the villain just because it could have opened so many more interesting doors for both him and the main hero to follow in the franchise:

 

Spoiler

Adonis did learn where his father failed and was willing to let go of the fight by throwing in the towel with broken-fucking-ribs. Rocky is redeemed by letting Adonis make that choice to save his life because Apollo was stupid and made the wrong choice in his fight. Adonis has responsibilities outside of the boxing ring now and will submit to them over his need to fight. Viktor does bring the title back to a Russia that shunned him and his father. Viktor wins the title for his sake, and crusades against the hierarchy that his own mother left him for with his title in hand - thus bringing his father's story full circle from when he choke slammed that imperial guy from part 4, screaming out "I fight for me!". Rocky's (blatant) bow out of the franchise with him staying out of the ring at the end and finally having the courage to meet his son sets up Creed needing to find his own reason to fight in the next movie.

 

But no, none of that happened, and what we got was a movie with no teeth - no daring and no 'Empire Strikes Back' moment of uncertainty at the end. And what we did get was a monster of a villain who I would love to see in this franchise again, and great fights with so-so training. No great music, no great story elements of unique training to show off these monsters of men doing superhuman things that us mortals can never achieve. It was just a slow story, with a not so clear message of why one person wants to fight, while the villain has a very clear message of his wants to fight, and an ending that leaves a Rocky fan kinda disappointed.

 

2/5

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sexy_shapiro

sexy_shapiro

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It was a little disappointing when compared to how fresh the first Creed felt. This felt like another Rocky movie which is a little weird considering how little actual Rocky has to do in this movie. Overall the movie is perfectly fine but it’s missing the energy Coogler breathed into the franchise last time around.

 

At the time Creed seemed like a perfect jumping off point for future movie, but now it’s apparent that Coogler was never thinking about future movies when he came up with the idea. Adonis just isn’t as interesting of a character once his arc in the first movie is complete.

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skillzdadirecta

skillzdadirecta

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22 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

The first Creed introduced stuff that didn’t need to be in the movie. Why was Adonis his illegitimate kid? What did that actually mean in the long run? It served no purpose in the overall story.

 

One. Because the original Rocky movies never established Apollo as having any kids. 

Two. it added a layer of motivation to Adonis' character as he always had a level of unworthiness to his father's legacy that went beyond just him being the son of a legendary boxer.

 

Oh and you guys keep saying "It's missing Coogler"... he was HEAVILY involved. He executive produced, helped develop the script and Stephen Cappel was his HANDPICKED choice to do the sequel. Remember, Stallone wanted to direct this one but was persuaded not to. Not sure how much of his ideas made it into the script. Stephen Cappel and Ryan Coogler are classmates and good friends. Coogler was involved, believe it.

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MarSolo

MarSolo

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1 minute ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

One. Because the original Rocky movies never established Apollo as having any kids. 

Two. it added a layer of motivation to Adonis' character as he always had a level of unworthiness to his father's legacy that went beyond just him being the son of a legendary boxer.

 

Oh and you guys keep saying "It's missing Coogler"... he was HEAVILY involved. He executive produced, helped develop the script and Stephen Cappel was his HANDPICKED choice to do the sequel. Remember, Stallone wanted to direct this one but was persuaded not to. Not sure how much of his ideas made it into the script. Stephen Cappel and Ryan Coogler are classmates and good friends. Coogler was involved, believe it.

 

I’m more than positive in the second movie they showed Apollo having a few kids.

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skillzdadirecta

skillzdadirecta

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5 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

 

I’m more than positive in the second movie they showed Apollo having a few kids.

 

You may be right... but then those kids would have been too old to be boxers now. Adonis was born a few months after Apollo had died. That wouldn't have worked if you made him his legit son who was eight or nine during Rocky 2. He would be pushing forty now. I thought making him Apollo's illegitimate kid added a layer to his character that worked very well for his arc in the first movie. Like I said earlier I also like the Dragos' arc in this one. 

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MarSolo

MarSolo

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4 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

You may be right... but then those kids would have been too old to be boxers now. Adonis was born a few months after Apollo had died. That wouldn't have worked if you made him his legit son who was eight or nine during Rocky 2. He would be pushing forty now. I thought making him Apollo's illegitimate kid added a layer to his character that worked very well for his arc in the first movie. Like I said earlier I also like the Dragos' arc in this one. 

 

Apollo’s wife could have been pregnant during the Drago fight in IV.

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skillzdadirecta

skillzdadirecta

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2 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

 

Apollo’s wife could have been pregnant during the Drago fight in IV.

 

Sure they could have went that way, but they didn't. It would have negated a key character component from Adonis' character from the first movie... that early struggle he had being in the system before Apollo's wife found him and adopted him. Could they have made what you're saying work? Sure. I just disagree that making him illegitimate  had NO bearing on the story or his character or was "unnecessary". Him being a dude who was born into wealth and raised that way his whole life is a lot different than him being a dude who was born into poverty, lost his mother shortly after and was raised in the system for a portion of his life before becoming a fighter. Adonis never had  to become a fighter, he was driven to.  His background was part of that, not just being Apollo's son.

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MarSolo

MarSolo

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34 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

Sure they could have went that way, but they didn't. It would have negated a key character component from Adonis' character from the first movie... that early struggle he had being in the system before Apollo's wife found him and adopted him. Could they have made what you're saying work? Sure. I just disagree that making him illegitimate  had NO bearing on the story or his character or was "unnecessary". Him being a dude who was born into wealth and raised that way his whole life is a lot different than him being a dude who was born into poverty, lost his mother shortly after and was raised in the system for a portion of his life before becoming a fighter. Adonis never had  to become a fighter, he was driven to.  His background was part of that, not just being Apollo's son.

 

Apollo’s wife adopted him when he was a little kid. He was raised into wealth. 

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skillzdadirecta

skillzdadirecta

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1 hour ago, MarSolo said:

 

Apollo’s wife adopted him when he was a little kid. He was raised into wealth. 

Sure... but he spent a decent amount of time in the system. He was probably eight or nine when he was adopted by Apollo's wife. It has an effect and he would be a different character if he was born into wealth and never experienced any hardships. Which is the point.

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  • 2 months later...
TheRealSmallville

TheRealSmallville

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On 11/26/2018 at 4:30 PM, johnny said:

The movie moment of the year is when the rocky theme starts to play YOU KNOW WHEN 

 

my theatre started cheering Creed on like this was a real boxing match. Fucking amazing I had goosebumps during that scene. 

 

I just finally got around to watching this on digital...I have to say, even watching it at home, when the theme flared we jumped off the couch & were yelling at the TV...the kids said we looked insane :p They're too young to give a shit about Rocky right now, but their Mom & I...ooooh yes :lol: I have to agree, it might be my favorite moment from any 2018 film! 

 

The first Creed had a better story, but I actually loved Creed 2. An actual sequel to Rocky IV? Fuuuuuck, yes! 

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